Slitherine

The games are good, but still I feel there could be more to them. Yes, the two new titles will add functionality, but it won't be antiquity. Additionally, the new engine for both games won't be compatible with prior content. I would actually pay for an engine upgrade adding better UI and features. Battlefront has gone through charging for 3 engine upgrades thus far.

Like managing fleets and troops are totally clunky. Loading and unloading. But this feature has been in games for a generation already.

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As for FOG2, we now have 2 very good AIs written for the game by the developer and independently by a modder. They play quite different. Richard's is more conservative and usually has a reserve held back for exploitation. Jack's hits harder and gambols more, but if the gambol pays off it well positioned to roll up the line. How wonderful to have 2 challenging AIs ... it almost suggest a feature that the opponent general might manifest a personality; now wouldn't that be cool? But not to ever be despite such strong foundation and proof of concept; a feature that blow away PDS and their simple system of bonuses and maluses with one size AI fits all.

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Finally both games are waiting for patches to their campaigns (I know as I found bugs as much as 6 weeks ago in both). We are in the most important purchasing season of the year, and instead of seeing both game polished all shiny to make wonderful Steam gifts to friends trying to deal with the Pandemic of the century. I see some accumulated rust on my favorite titles of which I had hoped to make presents of.

How sad. Rome has truly been sacked.

Just because there is a new FOG2 Medieval game does not mean that FOG2 Ancients will never be updated, or that new DLC won't be released. RBS has said many times that the FOG2 game system will cover the whole period from 3000BC to 1500AD, if a new DLC that covers 2500BC to 682BC is made, it won't be for the Medieval game!

It is more that the engine for these games will be frozen.

The only real justification I can see for that is if they go 64 bit.

Maybe we can hope for FOGE: Medival?

I think that is what is coming, but I wanted a better Empires or Empires 2 of antiquity.

MarkShot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:25 pm It is more that the engine for these games will be frozen.

I can only speak for the FOG2 engine, but it will not be frozen. We will continue to make relevant updates to it as things come to light.

Finally both games are waiting for patches to their campaigns (I know as I found bugs as much as 6 weeks ago in both). We are in the most important purchasing season of the year, and instead of seeing both game polished all shiny to make wonderful Steam gifts to friends trying to deal with the Pandemic of the century. I see some accumulated rust on my favorite titles of which I had hoped to make presents of.

v1.5.33 of FOG2 is currently in open beta, and we would very much welcome some feedback on that.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=627

Thank you, Richard.

It's not that I don't believe your or Philippe's next games won't be a master pieces. It is more than just the period, but through owning like 6 engines and 6 overhauls, the period just feels like home.

Like at the moment, I am playing the American Civil War (the first one), I have about 5 titles. I mean there are other great games, but the ACW was such a pivotal moment in history.

So, it is hard to put yourself in a period for which you have no affinity, and it took about 10 courses to have an affinity for the ACW and Roman times.

If you see what I mean.

I just wanna the FOGE's devs focusing more on the units' convertion,many units were wrong when converted into FOG2,and lack of many units in the FOGE although they were already in FOG2's appropriate army lists(Like FOG2's greeks have slinger and few archers also peltasts but in FOGE the greeks only have javalinmen as skirmisher unit,when you converted to FOG2 yes you only have the javalinmen).Some times I really hope they did not add this option(converted the FOGE's battle into FOG2)if they can't even get the basic things done.

Surt wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:34 pm Maybe we can hope for FOGE: Medival?

This is what I am hoping for.

Or the FOGE patch (hot fix really) for trade and end game memory management issues which is about 4 months over due.

I had once said I would buy an AGEOD game sight unseen. But I must revise that statement. Any game that carries the Slitherine label will only be purchased when I know that all critical technical bugs and game play bugs have been resolved.

This is a sad day for Slitherine, since gamers often buy more titles than they can play. If you hold the above attitude, then you may simply skip titles from Sliterine which are bugged; rather than buy and trust.

A good example of this is TW's Rome 2. It was a total disaster at launch. However, they actually did quite a few patches, and it is now one of their top titles. However, many simply did not buy Rome 2, and just bought the upcoming Atila which was much more solid. And I suppose others, just had enough of CA/TW and became long term customers of other companies.

Slitherine was doing much right in terms of marketing (mainly not milking the customer base such as PDS does constantly; that earned much good will). But failure to support and patch is a clear stumble.

NOTE: This not a criticism of Philippe Malacher. He is one of the most talented game developers I have met. This is criticism of corporate policy.

I know that a patch is due, but even with minor changes, it means testing and testers. I have no more testers for it. Perhaps as a Public Beta on Steam, if people are willing to try it?

Perhaps as a Public Beta on Steam, if people are willing to try it?

this if it is not confusing for the players would be ideal solution. But dont forget us playing the game on gog platform please!

Pocus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:26 am I know that a patch is due, but even with minor changes, it means testing and testers. I have no more testers for it. Perhaps as a Public Beta on Steam, if people are willing to try it?

It works with FoG2 and other games too, so go ahead A post here on the forum how to activate the open beta on Steam. There will be people opting in and using the open beta, and if you get no comments (or you would actually get some positive commenting, but in my experience "no comments = good comments"), then release it officially after a while. If there are some critical issues with the patch reported, then update the open beta when you happen to have time.

nikossaiz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:19 am

Perhaps as a Public Beta on Steam, if people are willing to try it?

this if it is not confusing for the players would be ideal solution. But dont forget us playing the game on gog platform please!

That's only realistically feasible through Steam, as there is an 'opt-in' system where you can switch between versions and Steam does all the job of checking the files. There is nothing like that elsewhere (not at Slitherine or GOG at least)

Good points Swuul.

The game as it is today is superb. Past patches have added many great features, such as the great diplomacy system and the revision of the combat system that gave cavalry its proper role. And we have already seen many other improvements.

I find the interface for handling stacks and fleets to be very easy to use and practically instinctive at this point, especially if you use the ledger.

Yes, there are some minor bugs, but i love the game as it is, and cannot stop playing it, after all this time.

Pocus is working on a new game, the subject of which has not been announced, and I expect it to be even better than FOG 2 empires. I am glad he is doing so, and cannot wait to hear it announced.

In view of this I am content to wait for a patch.

I seldom post on the internet, but I have to say that having had some experience in what could be termed project management on a limited budget, though thankfully without having to deal with The Public, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would choose to be a game designer. The Slitherine boards tend to be pretty civil, especially compared to that experiment in social psychology known as Steam, but I want to express my gratitude to RBS and Pocus for their patience in responding to requests, and the remarkable efforts they have made to provide such an entertaining product for those of us who are interested in military history. I think they are doing an excellent job of trying to balance the desire for at least the feeling of historical plausibility against the realities of the marketplace.

I share the nostalgia for the old AGEOD games, which had a more historical "feel" than FOG Empires, but I never understood how they turned a profit, and to be honest it showed in the ability to address problems with the games. But if you ignore the Empires victory conditions, and try to play like one of the historical actors, the overall model isn't too bad as an entertaining depiction of the ancient world. And if they can make enough money to keep it up, I can resist the urge to argue over their design decisions. The one issue I remember raising got a very quick and reasonable response from Pocus.

Gnaeus wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:00 pm I seldom post on the internet, but I have to say that having had some experience in what could be termed project management on a limited budget, though thankfully without having to deal with The Public, I can't for the life of me understand why someone would choose to be a game designer. The Slitherine boards tend to be pretty civil, especially compared to that experiment in social psychology known as Steam, but I want to express my gratitude to RBS and Pocus for their patience in responding to requests, and the remarkable efforts they have made to provide such an entertaining product for those of us who are interested in military history. I think they are doing an excellent job of trying to balance the desire for at least the feeling of historical plausibility against the realities of the marketplace.

Thanks for the kind words. We do like to hear them from time to time.

Pocus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:32 pm

nikossaiz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:19 am

Perhaps as a Public Beta on Steam, if people are willing to try it?

this if it is not confusing for the players would be ideal solution. But dont forget us playing the game on gog platform please!

That's only realistically feasible through Steam, as there is an 'opt-in' system where you can switch between versions and Steam does all the job of checking the files. There is nothing like that elsewhere (not at Slitherine or GOG at least)

Good points Swuul.

I quite regularly test betas through Steam so I'd be interested in doing this. I've actually been holding off buying the dlc waiting to seeing what on-going support the game was getting.

Solaristics wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:22 pm I quite regularly test betas through Steam so I'd be interested in doing this. I've actually been holding off buying the dlc waiting to seeing what on-going support the game was getting.

Honestly, I think FOGE is a GEM, and a very different ancient experience at a very fair price. There are some UI areas which could use some work like naval embarkation/debarkation. But you can live with it.

My only issue was that the there are 2 fatal technical bugs (I mean game ending; not balance) which are known and fixed, but patch not released.

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Since Richard joined this thread. FOG2 is also a Gem. I have played the greatest names in TW Rome1/Rome2 total conversion mods. It is impossible to have a War gamer carefully considered fight no matter what is done to TW. FOG2 is a carefully considered fight at the level of Combat Mission or MIUS, but set in the ancient world. Although I don't like TBS games in general, but it has one of the slickest UIs I have seen seen. It can be made to flow very smooth for those who prefer RTS or it can be a plodding spreadsheet game if that is what you like.

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Disclosure: Once upon a time, a member of AGEOD. Retired software engineer/systems designer.

MarkShot wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:43 am Since Richard joined this thread. FOG2 is also a Gem. I have played the greatest names in TW Rome1/Rome2 total conversion mods. It is impossible to have a War gamer carefully considered fight no matter what is done to TW. FOG2 is a carefully considered fight at the level of Combat Mission or MIUS, but set in the ancient world. Although I don't like TBS games in general, but it has one of the slickest UIs I have seen seen. It can be made to flow very smooth for those who prefer RTS or it can be a plodding spreadsheet game if that is what you like.

Thanks Mark