Slitherine

I am planning a Singleplayer Campaign where the Player assumes the roll of Divisional Commander of a single Panzer Division starting with the invasion of the Soviet Union. I intend to focus on gameplay, interesting objectives and tactical dilemmas - not exact recreations of historical battles... Though it will be historically themed, especially in regards to the players core units, available units and gameplay changes along with terrain that would reflect that of a given area and season. The concept of the missions will be loosely based on the actions of the 11th Panzer Division (which has a very interesting history indeed!). I want the player to really value each of their units and encourage them to pull back units once their strength, ammo or fuel gets low. Taking bonus objectives might not be worth the losses. I rather have substantial refitting take place in-between some missions, not during them. Objectives will be smaller in scale and more tactical than maps where a city is represented by a single hex and a unit is represented as an entire battalion or division. This doesn't mean the maps will be small. They will be medium to as large as the game engine can handle without imploding. You might not deploy the whole division for a mission, but form a Kampfgruppe instead.

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Gameplay Changes:

- Prestige -
This represents how often units get replacements and new equipment. Unlike the Vanilla campaigns, you will not have the luxury of magically rebuilding a tank or infantry company in a matter of an in game day, let along "buying" new ones. There will be designated times to "refit" your division. This will truly force the player to send battered companies to his reserve and deploy fresh ones for the next mission. Available units to purchase and upgrade will be historically based. The campaign will be designed and tested with the use of the new player trait "Old Guard". (At the end of each mission all dead units are reformed with 1 point of strength and halved experience.) This way your Division structure is always present, waiting to be rebuilt.

- Supply -
The player will have an Ammo and Fuel "Pool" that units will pull from at the start of every turn. The player will have a to be determined (mission specific) amount of fuel and ammo every turn. If all units have full ammo and fuel, the excess goes into the "pool" - think of it as a supply dump. This system is already present in the Vanilla game with UI display at the top center ect ...just nobody uses it...
Other potential options are: Supply Dumps behind the front are the "source" of your supply - ie if the enemy destroys or captures them, your pool gets depleted. Also, if LUA scripting permits, (there are ZERO vanilla game examples of this to copy!!!) an increase or decrease of supply upon capturing or losing strategic hexes (railways, bridges, cross roads ect).

- Air and Artillery Support -
Some missions will provide a Luftwaffe Liaison Officer and/or an Artillery Forward Observer in a halftrack. These auxiliary units under your command will direct fire missions and close air support for friendly German AI. For example, friendly AI units such as Stukas, 21cm Howitzers or even a K5 Rail Gun, will only fire upon/attack enemy units within 3 hexes of the Forward Observer! Not only will not have direct control over combat aircraft, the AI Luftwaffe might not be there to support you every day, or they might have a certain amount of fuel and ammo for a mission and you'll have to utilize them smartly!
Another change will be the removal of the "Counter Battery" trait to the larger Artillery units. This becomes over powered or rather annoying when the ranges of these weapons get increased.

Scale Changes:

1 Turn = tbd amount of hours instead of days
1 Unit = 1 Company (Artillery = 1 Battery)
1 Hex = 1 Kilometer
Realistic Artillery Ranges based on new "Hex resolution" (ie artillery that has a real life range of 13km will have a 13 hex range)
Realistic Aircraft Ranges (basically reach anywhere on the map!)
Limited Supply (read below)

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The following list is the players core forces. This order of battle is based on the book "The First Day On The Eastern Front" among other resources. Still, unit variants and transportation details aren't always clear. I am open to changes and suggestions - that is why I am creating this thread. I want my core force template solidified before I make missions and test them. NOTE: the player will start with only 2 Panzer Battalions, a 3rd will be added to your Division later in the Campaign.

1941 Panzer Division Order of Battle:

2 x Panzer Battalions each with:
1 x HQ Company - or "Command Tank" (1 x Panzer IIIE)
2 x Light Panzer Companies (1 x Panzer IIC & 1 x Panzer IIIH)
1 x Heavy Panzer Company (1 x Panzer IVE)

4 x Rifle Battalions each with:
3 x Rifle Companies (3 x Wehr w/opel)
1 x *MG Company (1 x Grenadier w/opel)
1 x **Heavy Company (1 x 7.5cm w/opel) (range = 3 hexes)

1 x Heavy Artillery Battalion with:
2 x 15cm sFH batteries w/sdkfz (range = 13 hexes)

2 x Artillery Battalions each with:
3 x 10.5cm LeFH batteries w/opel (range = 10 hexes)

1 x Motorcycle Battalion with:
3 x Motorcycle Companies (3 x Wehr/Kradshutzen)
1 x *Motorcycle MG Company (1 x Grenadier/Kradshutzen)
1 x **Heavy Company (1 x 7.5cm w/opel) (range = 3 hexes)

1 x Armored Reconnaissance Battalion with:
1 x Armored Scout Company (1 x Sdkfz 231 6rad)
1 x Motorcycle Company (1 x Kradshutzen)
1 x **Heavy Company (1 x 7.5cm w/opel) (range = 3 hexes)

1 x Armored Engineer Battalion with:
3 x Pioniere Companies w/Sdkfz
1 x Armored Combat Company (1 x Wurfrahmen 40) (range = 2 hexes)
2 x Bridging Columns (2 x Bruckenpiniere w/opel)

1 x Self propelled Artillery Company:
1 x Sturmpanzer I (range = 4 hexes)

1 x Anti Tank Battalion with:
3 x AT Companies (2 x 3.7cm pak, 1 x 5cm pak)

1 x Armored Signal Battalion with:
1 x Armored Telephone Company (1 x sdkfz 251)
1 x Armored Radio Company (1 x sdkfz 251)

1 x SP Light Flak Battalion***
4 x 2cm FlaK 38 w/opel
4 x Sdkfz 10/4
2 x Sdkfz 7/1

Additionally, the player will own and have direct control over Divisional Reconnaissance (1 x Fi 156 Storch)

UNIT NOTES:

*MG Companies (which I will represent with a Grenadier unit) had 8 x Heavy MGs and 6 x 8cm Mortars. Therefor it seems only logical to give these MG Companies the infantry support trait so they will support adjacent friendly units that are attacked by enemy infantry. The MG Company of the Motorcycle Battalion will mount as Kradshutzen rather than Opel ect.

**Heavy Companies (which I will represent using the 7.5 cm FK 18 unit) technically should have the 7.5 cm le.IG 18. The range will be changed to reflect that of the 7.5 cm le.IG 18 for infantry support along with other unit stat changes that seem appropriate.

***Technically this Battalion is not part of the Panzer Division OOB, but it was common practice to attach a self-propelled/motorized Light Flak Battalion to the Panzer Divisions. Numbers increased for gameplay, ratios of types taken into consideration.

- All Artillery will be given the Anti tank Support Trait. (for example, in real life it was not uncommon for a 10.5cm battery to engage soviet armor)

- All Anti Tank Guns will be given the Infantry Support Trait in addition to their default Anti Tank Support Trait (in real life they received a substantial amount of HE rounds)

- Motorcycle Infantry will be reworked to "switch" between mounted Motorcycle/Recon mode and dismounted Wehr/Rifleman

- Sdkfz 251's of the Armored Signal Battalion along with the Command Tanks, will have special attributes to assist friendly units to simulate improved communication and control:
⦁Leadership (+1 initiative to all adjacent friendly units)
⦁FierceFighter (+1 attack for each adjacent enemy unit)
⦁TenaciousDefender (+1 defense for each adjacent enemy unit)
⦁AimingAssistance (+10 accuracy to all adjacent friendly units)

Support Battalions
The following were common Battalions attached to the Divisions within a Panzer Corps. The player will receive Commendation Points for certain accomplishments. These points can be used to purchase these Battalions:

- Mixed Flak Battalion (3 x 8.8cm Flak 36 Batteries)
- Heavy Werfer Battalion (3 x 28/30cm Nebelwerfer Batteries)
- Pioniere Battalion (3 x Pioniere Companies)
- Flamm Panzer Battalion (3 x Panzer II Flamm Companies)
- Stug Battalion (3 x Stug Batteries)
- Panzerjager Battalion (3 x Panzerjager IB Companies)

Additional New Units:
- Brandenburgers (elite infantry with a plethora of cool traits)
- SS Cavalry (will prove useful to protect rear areas)
- Construction Battalion A (switches to Forward Airfield)
- Construction Battalion B (switches to Bunker - not tested)
- Construction Battalion M (switches to Minefield - not tested)

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Let me know your thoughts. I'm sure there are a couple obvious things I have overlooked or other things that could be improved. I am at the mercy of the games limitations and lack of LUA script examples to work off of.

I think these gameplay changes will really change the feel of the game. It won't be for everyone though.

Here is what the full Division looks like plotted out in my Division template.

Note: units south of the river are the Support Battalions that you can "assign" (ie purchase with Commendation Points) throughout 1941. The lone units on the bottom right are the Brandenburgers and the SS Cavalry.

Everything

Sounds cool. Good luck!

I'm debating whether to make the Motorcycle companies the same as a rifle company, because that's what they were in real life - a rifle company on motorcycles. And their "transport" state could be the motorcycle, or maybe they could be switchable to the motorcycle... either way, I'd disable their recon abilities.

And then I'd replace the lost recon abilities of the motorcycle/kradshutzen with a new unit: forward observer. The FO would make more sense to give an accuracy bonus, especially with artillery.

An example of above:
Dragoon DragoonM DE Infantry 150 3 3 240 Wheels 80 3 0 6 10 6 0 1 7 6 0 Soft MotorcycleBMW 01.05.1940 01.01.1946 15 PhasedMovement CloseFighter MineKiller Primary DragoonUm Motorcycle 147
Dragoon DragoonUm DE Infantry 150 3 3 0 Foot 30 3 0 4 11 7 0 1 10 9 1 Soft de_rifle_infantry 01.05.1940 01.01.1946 15 Wehrmacht Infanterie CloseFighter MineKiller NoPurchase DragoonM Infantry 137

This is a very interesting project, however I have some comments:

1. the division is the largest tactical unit, so it's obvious that maps and missions should only be tactical, so I have no objections to the partial historical reality or even the lack of it in the scenario design BUT the maps should be as compatible as possible with the topography of a given battlefield IMHO
2. however, it seems to me that the maps will be very large if 1 hex = 1 km, besides, they must be large to accommodate all units of our division plus units of one or even several enemy divisions and not to be crowded, therefore the maps should have a minimum 100x100 hexes IMO, unless the player is in command of only a kampfgruppe in a given battle
3. I'm in favor of replenishing infantry units ONLY between combat missions, after all, an efficient division commander always has 1 battalion for 1 regiment as tactical reserve
4. On the other hand, it should be possible to repair the equipment during the battle in the division repair workshop located in the near back from the front line, but to a limited extent (there should be a limit of points that can be restored during scenario, then the player will only repair less damaged vehicles ), therefore, I would propose to introduce:
a. panzer div mobile repair workshop
b. mobile tech company hauling damaged equipment from the battlefield to repair workshop
If it's to be a tactical simulator of panzer division, technical support units are missing here
EDIT> I know that creating such units can be difficult as it would require the creation of new 3d unit models, but you can use existing models instead (trucks, tractors, halftracks etc.)
5. I agree that air support should be limited (similarly support from heavy artillery at the corps or army level) and rather on demand, only reconnaissance and artillery fire control planes (Hs 126, Fi Storch etc.) should be left at the player's disposal.

I'm very interested in your Mod and your campaign and will follow the development of this project closely

Amazing prospectives go ahead please !! I really enjoyed playing ghost div and 3rd inf div campaigns on OOB WWII . Recommend historical names for each single unit and also the maximum map size for the optimal freedom of movement and planning.

One more thing that came to my mind, I understand that there may be technical problems with towing damaged vehicles, so a mobile repair workshop can follow 1st panzer abteilung (battalion), while a mobile tech company can operate independently (greater range, more movement points) supporting vehicles from 2nd and 3rd (if it was put into combat) panzer abteilungs
It will not be mega-realistic, but certainly very satisfying for players

kondi754 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:26 pm This is a very interesting project, however I have some comments:

1. the division is the largest tactical unit, so it's obvious that maps and missions should only be tactical, so I have no objections to the partial historical reality or even the lack of it in the scenario design BUT the maps should be as compatible as possible with the topography of a given battlefield IMHO
2. however, it seems to me that the maps will be very large if 1 hex = 1 km, besides, they must be large to accommodate all units of our division plus units of one or even several enemy divisions and not to be crowded, therefore the maps should have a minimum 100x100 hexes IMO, unless the player is in command of only a kampfgruppe in a given battle
3. I'm in favor of replenishing infantry units ONLY between combat missions, after all, an efficient division commander always has 1 battalion for 1 regiment as tactical reserve
4. On the other hand, it should be possible to repair the equipment during the battle in the division repair workshop located in the near back from the front line, but to a limited extent (there should be a limit of points that can be restored during scenario, then the player will only repair less damaged vehicles ), therefore, I would propose to introduce:
a. panzer div mobile repair workshop
b. mobile tech company hauling damaged equipment from the battlefield to repair workshop
If it's to be a tactical simulator of panzer division, technical support units are missing here
EDIT> I know that creating such units can be difficult as it would require the creation of new 3d unit models, but you can use existing models instead (trucks, tractors, halftracks etc.)
5. I agree that air support should be limited (similarly support from heavy artillery at the corps or army level) and rather on demand, only reconnaissance and artillery fire control planes (Hs 126, Fi Storch etc.) should be left at the player's disposal.

I'm very interested in your Mod and your campaign and will follow the development of this project closely

Hey, I really appreciate your input.

1. Scenario design should be within the realm of reality - even if not specifically modeled to simulate an exact historical engagement. Equipment, terrain and weather should be period correct.

2. The game engine definitely has it's limits. I tried to make an eastern front map that was nearly 200 hexes wide - it doesn't work. All those "massive" map or scenario ideas I have scrapped... 60x60 hexes seems stable no matter what I've thrown at it.

I will plot down the proposed players division vs. a Soviet division of some sort - then gradually increase hex size of the map to test performance. One thought is, many units (artillery) will be able to sit far behind the front line. Hopefully that will clear up some space on the map.

If indeed the max map sizes feel too cramped I could limit core slots so that you would be in command of a kampfgruppe (not the WHOLE division) as you have stated. Then perhaps after a mission you would switch out one battalion for another (via the games reserve forces) because of losses.

3. Ja ja

4. I had the thought of repair units. If there was a trait or hero to do such a thing it would be nice but I am limited to what already exists in the game. I'm not a programmer. I've already tried to get lua help for multiplayer (AGN) scenario but it's just crickets around here...

5. I intend on experimenting with a Forward Observer unit (EDIT: sdkfz 253?) that has camouflage, recon, evasive and phased movement traits... instead of the Kradshutzen having the recon abilities. This way, in theory, the FO can move up to an enemy unit, get the recon bonus, spot for artillery ect, then retreat to relative safety (out of enemy attack range or vision range) in the same turn.

ADMIRAL3 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:57 pm Amazing prospectives go ahead please !! I really enjoyed playing ghost div and 3rd inf div campaigns on OOB WWII . Recommend historical names for each single unit and also the maximum map size for the optimal freedom of movement and planning.

Well, the starting oob is historical but we are not portraying any single particular division. Or do you mean the German abbreviation jargon should be used?

dalfrede wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:20 am An example of above:
Dragoon DragoonM DE Infantry 150 3 3 240 Wheels 80 3 0 6 10 6 0 1 7 6 0 Soft MotorcycleBMW 01.05.1940 01.01.1946 15 PhasedMovement CloseFighter MineKiller Primary DragoonUm Motorcycle 147
Dragoon DragoonUm DE Infantry 150 3 3 0 Foot 30 3 0 4 11 7 0 1 10 9 1 Soft de_rifle_infantry 01.05.1940 01.01.1946 15 Wehrmacht Infanterie CloseFighter MineKiller NoPurchase DragoonM Infantry 137

Hey dalfrede, thanks for your contributions to the forum/editor.

I have a few questions after playing around with the equipment.pzeqp data a bit.

1. I'm assuming that the PzC ID column with the numerical values should be set to something absurdly high when creating your own custom units as to avoid conflicts?
2. The "remove trait column" is empty, what is it's purpose? Couldn't I simply delete a units pre-existing traits in the normal "trait" column?
3. What is the last column of numbers represent? It appears to be the normal prestige cost, but slightly increased.

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:52 am
4. I had the thought of repair units. If there was a trait or hero to do such a thing it would be nice but I am limited to what already exists in the game. I'm not a programmer. I've already tried to get lua help for multiplayer (AGN) scenario but it's just crickets around here...

Yes, I know that
Anyway, your project is very interesting without tech support units too

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:14 am
Hey dalfrede, thanks for your contributions to the forum/editor.

I have a few questions after playing around with the equipment.pzeqp data a bit.

1. I'm assuming that the PzC ID column with the numerical values should be set to something absurdly high when creating your own custom units as to avoid conflicts?
2. The "remove trait column" is empty, what is it's purpose? Couldn't I simply delete a units pre-existing traits in the normal "trait" column?
3. What is the last column of numbers represent? It appears to be the normal prestige cost, but slightly increased.

1) Leave blank. It is for converting PzC1 scenarios to PzC2. In PzC2 they use a modified unit name,
ie Ilyushin DB-3 > IlyushinDB3

2) It's a holdover from PzC1, used rarely even there.

3) It's the original calculated prestige cost. During the Beta they adjusted all prestige costs making these outdated.

dalfrede wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:48 pm

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:14 am
Hey dalfrede, thanks for your contributions to the forum/editor.

I have a few questions after playing around with the equipment.pzeqp data a bit.

1. I'm assuming that the PzC ID column with the numerical values should be set to something absurdly high when creating your own custom units as to avoid conflicts?
2. The "remove trait column" is empty, what is it's purpose? Couldn't I simply delete a units pre-existing traits in the normal "trait" column?
3. What is the last column of numbers represent? It appears to be the normal prestige cost, but slightly increased.

1) Leave blank. It is for converting PzC1 scenarios to PzC2. In PzC2 they use a modified unit name,
ie Ilyushin DB-3 > IlyushinDB3

2) It's a holdover from PzC1, used rarely even there.

3) It's the original calculated prestige cost. During the Beta they adjusted all prestige costs making these outdated.

Last night I decided to start from scratch with the equipment files... I deleted my spreadsheet, the equipment & unit files. I replaced the equipment file buy using a backup of the vanilla file. I have loaded my new equipment file (works) and "exported to game" via the editor. However in the game editor I still see 2 custom units I created a few days ago that should not be there. What am I missing here? What file or cache?

delete.

I updated the OP to reflect changes based on testing and a lot of brain storming I've done. I scratched the missions I had designed because I am getting the hang of LUA and it's opening up new options. Also, I have a couple books on the 11th Panzer Division arriving in the next day or so, many missions will be based on this material.

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:54 am I updated the OP to reflect changes based on testing and a lot of brain storming I've done. I scratched the missions I had designed because I am getting the hang of LUA and it's opening up new options. Also, I have a couple books on the 11th Panzer Division arriving in the next day or so, many missions will be based on this material.

This user made campaigns are also in Batalion scale level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6w3Dm8tLQ&t=2101s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDXv78ljYU&t=2015s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGKT-WVtLXs&t=141s

SandroB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:57 am

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:54 am I updated the OP to reflect changes based on testing and a lot of brain storming I've done. I scratched the missions I had designed because I am getting the hang of LUA and it's opening up new options. Also, I have a couple books on the 11th Panzer Division arriving in the next day or so, many missions will be based on this material.

This user made campaigns are also in Batalion scale level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6w3Dm8tLQ&t=2101s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDXv78ljYU&t=2015s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGKT-WVtLXs&t=141s

Interestingly enough, I stumbled across this on Youtube a couple days ago. Looks like a lot of work went into it! Is there any particular reason for the timestamps in your links?

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:15 am

SandroB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:57 am

NETSCAPE wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:54 am I updated the OP to reflect changes based on testing and a lot of brain storming I've done. I scratched the missions I had designed because I am getting the hang of LUA and it's opening up new options. Also, I have a couple books on the 11th Panzer Division arriving in the next day or so, many missions will be based on this material.

This user made campaigns are also in Batalion scale level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb6w3Dm8tLQ&t=2101s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igDXv78ljYU&t=2015s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGKT-WVtLXs&t=141s

Interestingly enough, I stumbled across this on Youtube a couple days ago. Looks like a lot of work went into it! Is there any particular reason for the timestamps in your links?

What do you mean with timestamps ?

SandroB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:06 am What do you mean with timestamps ?

2101s, 2015s & 141s

You keep promoting this guy...