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Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:50 pm
by ApolloW
I have noticed a strange thing in the screenshots, it's faction named Russia. Game covers 11-13 century, so I can assume this meant to be Rus` ? it's major historical inaccuracy, because Tsardom of Russia historically wasn't formed until 1547, so in game covered period most correct to use name Rus`. Moreover, in Field of Glory II Ancient was used historically accurate faction name - Rus`, instead of Russia.
Re: Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm
by rbodleyscott
You are correct that the Kievan Rus state was called Rus at this date, and we do not suggest otherwise. However, the word "Russian" to decribe the nationality of the inhabitants of the Kievan Rus at this date is not uncommon in English.
In the game, the faction is not named "Russia", is is named "Russian". It refers to the nationality, not the state(s), in the same way that the Swedish "faction" is named "Swedish", not "Sweden".
We switched from "Rus" in Wolves at the Gate to "Russian" in FOG2: Medieval because by this date the minority Norse military aristocracy had fully merged with the native Slavic population, thus forming the Russian nation, distinct from the earlier days of the Rus state.
Re: Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:04 am
by Veles
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm
You are correct that the Kievan Rus state was called Rus at this date, and we do not suggest otherwise. However, the word "Russian" to decribe the
nationality of the inhabitants of the Kievan Rus at this date is not uncommon
in English.
We switched from "Rus" in Wolves at the Gate to "Russian" in FOG2: Medieval because by this date the minority Norse military aristocracy had fully merged with the native Slavic population, thus forming the Russian nation, distinct from the earlier days of the Rus state.
It still doesn't make them Russian as Eastern Slavs later split into Ruthenians (ancestors of Ukrainians, Rusyns, and Belarusians) and Muscovites aka actual Russians. Nowadays Rus is treated as the historical and cultural heritage of more countries than just Russia.
In the current tense political situations, Rus would be the least emotionally "charged" name.
Re: Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:35 pm
by olin0111
Veles wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:04 am
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm
You are correct that the Kievan Rus state was called Rus at this date, and we do not suggest otherwise. However, the word "Russian" to decribe the
nationality of the inhabitants of the Kievan Rus at this date is not uncommon
in English.
We switched from "Rus" in Wolves at the Gate to "Russian" in FOG2: Medieval because by this date the minority Norse military aristocracy had fully merged with the native Slavic population, thus forming the Russian nation, distinct from the earlier days of the Rus state.
It still doesn't make them Russian as Eastern Slavs later split into Ruthenians (ancestors of Ukrainians, Rusyns, and Belarusians) and Muscovites aka actual Russians. Nowadays Rus is treated as the historical and cultural heritage of more countries than just Russia.
In the current tense political situations, Rus would be the least emotionally "charged" name.
Second that. I believe "Rus"as a "Rus culture" and Rus people" would be terms that everyone (vast majority?) could agree on when describing these lands in Early and High Middle Ages.
Re: Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:18 am
by gribol
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm
You are correct that the Kievan Rus state was called Rus at this date, and we do not suggest otherwise. However, the word "Russian" to decribe the
nationality of the inhabitants of the Kievan Rus at this date is not uncommon
in English.
In the game, the faction is not named "Russia", is is named "Russian". It refers to the nationality, not the state(s), in the same way that the Swedish "faction" is named "Swedish", not "Sweden".
We switched from "Rus" in Wolves at the Gate to "Russian" in FOG2: Medieval because by this date the minority Norse military aristocracy had fully merged with the native Slavic population, thus forming the Russian nation, distinct from the earlier days of the Rus state.
I think, that "Ruthenians" instead of "Russians" will be more accurate.
EDIT:
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm
(...) by this date the minority Norse military aristocracy had fully merged with the native Slavic population, thus forming the Russian nation, distinct from the earlier days of the Rus state.
And their formed Rus (Ruthenians) "nation", but not the Russian "nation". In east Europe Rus and Russia are not similiar things.
But i can understand, that in english the differences between "Rus" an "Russia" can be not easy to notice.
Re: Russia instead of Rus`
Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:07 pm
by Veles
gribol wrote: ↑Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:18 am
I think, that "Ruthenians" instead of "Russians" will be more accurate.
Yeah, I agree. "Ruthenians" is the closest we can get to being authentic without using Old-Ruthenian/Old East Slavic language.