Slitherine

Hi everyone, I'm planning on bringing the French Ordonnance to the IWF competition in Rome and after some list advice.

What would you go for in this list? Heavy knights, some pike and heavy weapons, or same amount of knights, no heavy foot and more long bow?

I've brought the French to a couple of open competitions but haven't had much luck against the mounted cav/lh shooty armies.

Any ideas, recommendations?

Thanks

Slim

100% all natural urban bunny

I've run them against historical opponents, but against Cav/LH I have no clue. Definitely take the Ord Archers as Cav option.

urbanbunny1 wrote:Hi everyone, I'm planning on bringing the French Ordonnance to the IWF competition in Rome and after some list advice.

What would you go for in this list? Heavy knights, some pike and heavy weapons, or same amount of knights, no heavy foot and more long bow?

I've brought the French to a couple of open competitions but haven't had much luck against the mounted cav/lh shooty armies.

Any ideas, recommendations?

Thanks

Slim

100% all natural urban bunny

I've used Cavalry/Shooty armies a lot now. I have played against a number of Knight armies, to be honest the most BG of Knights I have faced is three one drilled and two undrilled, Middle Hungrian IIRC.
The problum you have with Knights unless you have a General with them they have a tendency to charge of at any LH BG placed in front of them.
The Knight player will at the begining try and keep them close to any foot they have but in the end they have to come out to cover some ground, thats when you place a BH LH in front and let them chase them.
I've never used Knights I've fought them ofton if you let them get you in a stright up fight and your not Knights theres a good chance you'll lose.
What I would do if you can take a couple of BG of Offensive armoured spearmen place your Knights to the rear of the two end Spear BG and move forward trying to keep out of charge reach until you want to charge. if you can take them as well a couple of BG of longbowmen will kill LH very easy getting within four inchs and counting the rear rank shooting. Hope you have a good time with the knights
dave

Longbow or crossbow should be best for beating shooty mounted armies.

Some LF/Crossbow is very usefull to support your main troops, you can shoot the mounted troops in a safe range (Try to keep the enemy mounted at 4 MU at least )

And Longbowmen of course.


David

Thanks for the hints.

I've been thinking about bringing in three BGs of the Ordonnace LB, one of which is upgraded to the Cav, plus a bunch of artillery. Would use that to create an anchor and then have the knights with the cav go a chasing.

Was thinking as well to buy some of the fortifications to hide the MF behind. I once brought into a comp a few BGs of XBow MF and the enemy HF made a bee line for them and did nasty things to them.

You would think that 800AP is a lot, but I still can't crowbar my Swiss Pike and all the knights I want into the list.

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

I don't think upgrading your lb to cav is a very good idea, probably just better to use them as lb. I wouldn't waste time with field fortifications, the only people that really need it in your army are the LB and they can get stakes. You will probably have to choose between getting many knights or hf -- you could either attack with your superior knights, but they are really expensive due to being drilled. You may want to take the minimum knights, and then get some good HF.

If i were to put together a list it would probably look something like this:

Minimmum amount of Superior knights (8 stands?)

at least 16 LB with stakes

Swiss pike

some heavy weapon guys

I disagree. i found a critical mass of 3 BGs of 4 knights to be the trick. Take one of them as Average Italian knights if you really need the 25pts.

Upgrading the LB to cav gives you the only fast thing in an army that cannot buy any LH

I have found that the cav either work really well, or they get butchered. I keep thinking that they are armoured and use them offensively. Protected cav don't play well with armoured units.

I do love my pike, but no one wants to play with them.

How have people found poor pike, they worth it?

Slim

100% All Natural Urban Bunny

I would try a strategy of using the combined arms of the Superior Pk, heavy weapon guys and superior knights to attack -- that is why I wouldn't really bother with cav, but if its the only thing you have that goes faster than 4mus, then it might be worth it. For average protected guys though, i would just skip it.

basically, attack on one side with the above mentioned troops and defend with the LB -- getting more than 10 stands of drilled knights is not worth the points imo.

If its the only cav you can get then it might be worth it, but for average protected guys its probably not worth it.

I would attack with Superior pike, heavyweapon and superior knights. Defend with Longbow (maybe with light art?).

More than 10 stands of drilled knights is not worth the points imo.

sorry for the double post, I thought the first one didn't work?

I think the ideal Knight brigade is 3 BGs of proper knights, 2 undrilled and one drilled deployed behind the undrilled for rear support, and where it can reach a gap or either flank. In most cases the drilled available are only average, which case their agility may still have value.

Poor pikes are best thought of as a mobile terrain feature - one advantage if outwinged is that they can form Orb to hold the flank long enough for the Knights to do their work.

All this talk has gotten me to buy some pikemen and longbow so I can morph my medieval french in to ordonnance. What has seemed to work best for you guys against contemporary armies?

vercingetorix wrote:All this talk has gotten me to buy some pikemen and longbow so I can morph my medieval french in to ordonnance. What has seemed to work best for you guys against contemporary armies?

Ordonnance men-at-arms are regular. I don't know what they wore, but it might not be the individual heradry of the medieval French knights.

Oh, well these guys are all 10mm so the heraldry isn't really that distinguishable.

I use 2 Swiss pike units and a 12 unit poor pike unit (and this one seems never to lose and is a bit of a magnet for offensive spears) as well as lots of LB, some handgunners and a minimum of knights.

The LB hold the flanks, with knight support, and pikes move asap up the middle.

Works well, although I do put too much reliance on the LB shooting well.

Muz

how much pike to you have total? 28 stands or something?

Yes

Two blocks of Swiss (8's) and a block of 12 (poor) in between.

Can post list if interested.

Muz

rtaylor wrote:

vercingetorix wrote:All this talk has gotten me to buy some pikemen and longbow so I can morph my medieval french in to ordonnance. What has seemed to work best for you guys against contemporary armies?

Ordonnance men-at-arms are regular. I don't know what they wore, but it might not be the individual heradry of the medieval French knights.

Yours should be in orange striped jump suits the way they manage to steal good luck.