Slitherine

Had a strange situation last night.

I had a BG of Knights and a BG of Cavalry, who charged two BG's of Light Horse. Because of the angles involved my Cavalry caught one of the BG's of Light Horse, with the other behind it. I broke the LH in the impact phase, during the pursuit I then contacted the second BG of Light Horse.

I believe that this cannot evade as it has already evaded in the impact phase - this seems to be confirmed in the play sequence as there is no option to evade during the pursuit.

However, on page 107, which is entitled "Pusuits in the JAP" it indicates that the LH should have an opportunity to evade again? I thought this it wasn't possible to evade twice in the same phase, but couldn't find this anywhere.

Also - if I did catch the Light Horse in the Impact phase would I fight a futher impact?

Page 108 right column says the LH not in close combat can evade from the pursuit.

If you catch it in the impact phase after it has already evaded it is caught and pummelled in the impact phase. Being passed through by its friends it will already be disrupted, caught in rear fragmented. Oooh that would smart a little.

IMO, 'cos I haven't got the rules with me.

The rules contemplate evasion from pursuers as well as from charges.

If they lost cohesion from being burst through and again from seeing routers, they would be fragmented and have to CT to see if they break. Being LH they would also have to CMT to receive the pursuers rather than evading.

Page 108 refers to pursuits in the Joint Action Phase?

They didn't get burst through as the other LH BG could shift sideways to avoid them. They did however go disrupted because of the break and then fragmented when I hit them.

If you catch it in the impact phase after it has already evaded it is caught and pummelled in the impact phase

That is what I think, but where is this in the rules? The only thing I found to corroborate this was in the full turn sequence when in pursuits during the impact there is no evade bit?

You cannot evade twice in the impact phase otherwise a BG charged could evade itself into the path of a different charger and get to evade again. This would surely be wrong.

philqw78 wrote:You cannot evade twice in the impact phase otherwise a BG charged could evade itself into the path of a different charger and get to evade again. This would surely be wrong.

You definitley can't evade twice in the same charge/evade phase but can you evade again in the pursuit part of the impact phase..... ? I will have a look at rules and FAQ.

Page 101 - Initial pursuits follow the same rules as pursuits in the Joint Action Phase. for moving multiple pursuing groups, following routers, avoiding friends or encountering the table edge, terrain or fresh enemy.

Page 109 Joint Action Phase - Routers and Pursuers, last bullet " Skirmishers that would be contacted by pursuing non-skirmishers in open terrain must pass a CMT not to evade (unless already in close combat other than only as an overlap).

But this is not a pursuit it is an evade.

philqw78 wrote:But this is not a pursuit it is an evade.

. . . from a pursuit . . .

after a combat resulting from an Impact avoided by the LH by an evade in response to a charge.

hammy wrote:You definitley can't evade twice in the same charge/evade phase but can you evade again in the pursuit part of the impact phase..... ? I will have a look at rules and FAQ.

It sounds OK to me. If chargers move twice, charge and initial pursuit, why can't evaders do it? They evade during charge step, then again during pursuit step.

I was on the receiving end of this

To expand a bit on what Dave has written, the Cav charged LH#1 who evaded but were caught. With the loss of cohesion from being hit in the rear and disastrous impact dice they promptly broke and routed in the impact phase. They outdistanced the Cav and avoided a second LH BG who had successfully evaded from a different charge but whose evade move had positioned them in the path of the cav's pursuit move. LH#2 promptly dropped a cohesion level for seeing friends break and were then hit in the rear by the pursuit move of the cav (are you still with me at the back?). What we couldn't work out was a) whether LH#2 should evade again (the rules seem to suggest only one evade), if not when the combat between the pursuing cav and LH#2 should be resolved. If we did a second impact combat, the likelihood was that LH#2, being now fragmented from being hit in the rear, would immediately break as well. The logical extension was then that the Cav would pursue for a second time and hit LH#1 again! This didn't seem right!?!

We played it that there was no impact phase combat with LH#2 but resolved it in the melee phase instead. The result was the same - I lost 2 LH units from steady to broken in one bound and Dave was duly able to chew up the exposed flank. I'm sure he was cheating somehow

No-one at the club seemed to have any sensible suggestions as to how this should have been played (so no change there then). If anyone can cast any light on how we should have done this I'd be grateful!

Cheers

Marc

Ok I think I understand so here goes

The system is such that you can only evade once from charges in the impact phase. So if 2 BGs evade and the original target gets away, but a new one is in the way, it gets thumped and cannot evade a second time. So only 1 evade from charges.

However you can always evade from a contact created by a pursuit. This is stated in the pursuit section. Note in the turn sequence, an evade from a pursuit is part of a pursuit, not an evade in that list. See JAP section in the list where you will see it says "move routers & pursuers" but doesn't mention evades at all, these evades being part of the pursuit and having no other sequencing issue.

Evades from charges are a separate item as they do have serious sequencing consequences with charges and interceptions.

I can see how one might think you can only evade once in a phase but I don't think we say that anywhere - but stand to be corrected by all the gurus out there.

Note we frequently mention that events in FOG are seen as pahses of battle not literal time, so a second evade reqally just reflect a get the hell out the way properly action. I am pretty sure I remember a couple of double evades but only a couple in over 300 games.

Si

Thanks Simon, that seems sensible.

Dave - I demand a rematch!

Marc

shall wrote:Ok I think I understand so here goes

Not sure I understood properly. This is what I understood:

1. If your BG evade from a charger, but its move put it in the path of another charger, the second charger get it since it cannot evade again
2. One BG evade and it's not caught by its pursuer, but after impact melee one friend broke and expose it to pursuer of broken friend; this time the unlucky BG can evade a second time and keep off traffic

Is it right?

That's my understanding too

yup.

represents phases of battle as per a core pricniple.

The charge/intercept/evades is one phase of battle. Pursuits and routs is another phase of battle. Hence we treat it differently.

Best option in my view if you take all alternatives into account.

Si

I can see how one might think you can only evade once in a phase but I don't think we say that anywhere

You might want to check with Mr Shaw (I know, I know...) as Terry thinks that you can only evade once per phase.

Where did he say this ...?

He was one of the two times I saw and evade twice in a single phase!!

Of course maybe we have FAQed something I have missed.

Si

It was in Helsinki.

And in answer to your next question it wasn't that late....

Can't see anything in the FAQS, so you haven't FAQ'ed it up...