Slitherine

i don't know if it's the good place

but my questions is :
why nubians can be superior as mercenary (for nke for example)

but are average (all) in their list ?

marco

marco wrote:i don't know if it's the good place

but my questions is :
why nubians can be superior as mercenary (for nke for example)

but are average (all) in their list ?

marco

Because of the general tendency for permanently embodied foreign mercenaries to become "elites" in Imperial armies. It cannot be assumed that home armies would be of equal quality. (cf Varangian guards and Vikings)

thanks for the answer

i think the answer could be as your

but i was thinking about welsh bowmen, when they go back to their coutry after a service in the english army they were better
and bring this quality to the welsharmy....
(sup for a part of the army ?)
anyway christian nubian are sup ....
(the christian efect ?)

well, i try...
i really want to make this army, but they look like so poor.....

and thanks for the answer

marco wrote:thanks for the answer

i think the answer could be as your

but i was thinking about welsh bowmen, when they go back to their coutry after a service in the english army they were better
and bring this quality to the welsharmy....
(sup for a part of the army ?)
anyway christian nubian are sup ....
(the christian efect ?)

well, i try...
i really want to make this army, but they look like so poor.....

and thanks for the answer

The 'Welsh' archers in English armies were from England and didn't 'go back' to the 'Welsh army'.

tadamson:

I think you'll find that hundreds of Welshmen fought in the English medieval armies, both in Britain and abroad. Marco is right in noting that many of these troops returned during the Glyndwr revolt therby bringing their experience to Welsh armies. Marco's view is supported by a mound of academic and popular scholarship (see R.R. Davies' The Revolt of Owain Glyndwr or Juliet Barker's Agincourt), and is indeed reflected in the army list for the revolt. Glyndwr himself fought as a shield-bearer for Richard II in France.

Mind you, I do wonder why the Welsh become 'undrilled' when they get home

too much beer at the welcome home party

Mind you, I do wonder why the Welsh become 'undrilled' when they get home

i notice that happy men become undrilled

for example when they win...........the anglo welsh cup !
congratulations !
(from a "toulouse afficionados")

anyway i will make a nubian army (christian ?)

Yr_Arglwydd_Rhys wrote:tadamson:

I think you'll find that hundreds of Welshmen fought in the English medieval armies, both in Britain and abroad. Marco is right in noting that many of these troops returned during the Glyndwr revolt therby bringing their experience to Welsh armies. Marco's view is supported by a mound of academic and popular scholarship (see R.R. Davies' The Revolt of Owain Glyndwr or Juliet Barker's Agincourt), and is indeed reflected in the army list for the revolt. Glyndwr himself fought as a shield-bearer for Richard II in France.

Mind you, I do wonder why the Welsh become 'undrilled' when they get home

Glyndwr's army was just another revolting English noble and assorted hangers on
(nb not entirely said in jest, the army itself does appear to be made up of normal troops for the period, no Welsh 'tribals')

I suppose the 'undrilled' might be implying that all the vintners etc were English.

tadamson wrote:Glyndwr's army was just another revolting English noble and assorted hangers on
(nb not entirely said in jest, the army itself does appear to be made up of normal troops for the period, no Welsh 'tribals')

That was pretty much my take on it from the research I did. That said I found a number of references to large numbers of spearmen as well as archers.

As for the Nubians I was rather disspointed to see that they were all average. I have to say though that in period an army of massed superior bowmen would be very very powerful as there is not much in the way of armour on the other side of the battlefield.

On the Nubian archers - I think I read somewhere that units of Nubian archers became incorporated into NYE armies as regular 'special forces' type units under the title 'ferocious Medjway'? They were used in an 'elite border guard' type role - were equipped and provisioned from state arsenals and probably saw a lot of action and would have therefore equated to veteran status.
So maybe 'superior' in an NYE context is justifiable?

Mark

Aetius wrote:On the Nubian archers - I think I read somewhere that units of Nubian archers became incorporated into NYE armies as regular 'special forces' type units under the title 'ferocious Medjway'? They were used in an 'elite border guard' type role - were equipped and provisioned from state arsenals and probably saw a lot of action and would have therefore equated to veteran status.
So maybe 'superior' in an NYE context is justifiable?

That was the basis of the classification.

any evidence of holydays for these elite in their native country that will justify superior troop in the nubian army ?

what we call in french : "mauvaise foi"

The Nubian Close Fighters seem to be missing their Light Spears as their only capability is listed as Swordsmen.

nickov wrote:The Nubian Close Fighters seem to be missing their Light Spears as their only capability is listed as Swordsmen.

They are armed with shields and clubs. They don't have spears.

The javelinmen are separate troops.

I've noticed others have the same problem. It means they've been short-changed as they lack the Impact +POA that troops with Light Spear have yet cost the same.

They have short changed camels too !

Sits back and awaits Nik's explosion.

hum....
this list seems to be a problem
maybe it's time to change it...

and save the nubians !

(or i keep paying people to post here)


marco
(swifter than eagle is my favorite, great book)

rbodleyscott wrote:(cf Varangian guards and Vikings)

That's a good point. Why can't my Huscarls be "Elite, Heavily Armoured, Drilled, Heavy Weapon"

Ian

nickov wrote:I've noticed others have the same problem. It means they've been short-changed as they lack the Impact +POA that troops with Light Spear have yet cost the same.

So don't use them. They are not compulsory. Against contemporary opponents in the early part of the period they will be fine - e.g. vs Egyptian archers or Old/Middle Kingdom close fighters.

As an old wise wargames guru has said - "we are the slaves of history, not its masters".

If you want to minimax, Early Nubians are probably not for you.

rbodleyscott wrote:

nickov wrote:I've noticed others have the same problem. It means they've been short-changed as they lack the Impact +POA that troops with Light Spear have yet cost the same.

So don't use them. They are not compulsory. Against contemporary opponents in the early part of the period they will be fine - e.g. vs Egyptian archers or Old/Middle Kingdom close fighters.

As an old wise wargames guru has said - "we are the slaves of history, not its masters".

If you want to minimax, Early Nubians are probably not for you.

I think nickov's statement could be better phrased as a question -

Why are light spears free for foot?

They're a point for mounted, who only get them in Impact some of the time.