Slitherine

Will army lists be sent with the beta test rules to the test group?

o54881 wrote:Will army lists be sent with the beta test rules to the test group?

cossack
polish-lithuanian
swedish
ottoman
moghul
all those samey western ones.

OldenTired wrote:

o54881 wrote:Will army lists be sent with the beta test rules to the test group?

cossack
polish-lithuanian
swedish
ottoman
moghul
all those samey western ones.

Need some Muscovites/Russians too!

You may as well take my money now!

Absolutely I have been waiting for Renaissance rules update since DBR fell out of use, used to be my favorite over ancients. Love FOG quite excited about this development.

I hope they don`t forge the early renaissance in the test armies, especially the Italian wars. These formed the cauldron where many of the later tactics evolved and many old features where buried.

puster wrote:I hope they don`t forge the early renaissance in the test armies, especially the Italian wars. These formed the cauldron where many of the later tactics evolved and many old features where buried.

And lets not forget the other side of the world....Aztecs, Huaxtecs, Samurai, Yi Koreans, Ming Chinese, Burmese, etc...

Huaxtec15mm wrote:

puster wrote:I hope they don`t forge the early renaissance in the test armies, especially the Italian wars. These formed the cauldron where many of the later tactics evolved and many old features where buried.

And lets not forget the other side of the world....Aztecs, Huaxtecs, Samurai, Yi Koreans, Ming Chinese, Burmese, etc...

I think until the introduction of the musket they are already served with FOG. Of course there can be some interesting scenarios for the Japanese wars, or their invasion of Korea. I doubt that it makes sense to apply this ruleset to any battles in the new world, though.

Don't forget the Samurai!!

puster wrote:

Huaxtec15mm wrote:

puster wrote:I hope they don`t forge the early renaissance in the test armies, especially the Italian wars. These formed the cauldron where many of the later tactics evolved and many old features where buried.

And lets not forget the other side of the world....Aztecs, Huaxtecs, Samurai, Yi Koreans, Ming Chinese, Burmese, etc...

I doubt that it makes sense to apply this ruleset to any battles in the new world, though.

No? Not Conquistadores w/ allies vrs. Aztecs or Huaxtecs?

Huaxtec15mm wrote:No? Not Conquistadores w/ allies vrs. Aztecs or Huaxtecs?

There is imho nothing in these battles that cannot be handled with standard FOG.

The main difference to battles just between Indians is the psychological effect of horses and muskets, and this effect would stand out of FOGR just as out of FOG. The number and equipment of Spaniards was, just imho, too limited to make a miltary impact that needs "Renaissance" rules. If you just give their units "elite" status it will probably all it takes to play the battles with FOG.

A skirmish game, on the other hand, with individuals, would be another matter.

BTW:Lets wait how the incoming FOG expansion "Blood and Gold" will handle this. Or the one before on the Far Eastern armies. I doubt there will be much left for the Renaissance in the former, and I am eager to see where the latter ends. The Japanese civil wars certainly have sufficient development to play Renaissance rather then FOG in the later engagements.

puster wrote:

Huaxtec15mm wrote:No? Not Conquistadores w/ allies vrs. Aztecs or Huaxtecs?

There is imho nothing in these battles that cannot be handled with standard FOG.

The main difference to battles just between Indians is the psychological effect of horses and muskets, and this effect would stand out of FOGR just as out of FOG. The number and equipment of Spaniards was, just imho, too limited to make a miltary impact that needs "Renaissance" rules. If you just give their units "elite" status it will probably all it takes to play the battles with FOG.

A skirmish game, on the other hand, with individuals, would be another matter.

BTW:Lets wait how the incoming FOG expansion "Blood and Gold" will handle this. Or the one before on the Far Eastern armies. I doubt there will be much left for the Renaissance in the former, and I am eager to see where the latter ends. The Japanese civil wars certainly have sufficient development to play Renaissance rather then FOG in the later engagements.

So what period of time IS going to be covered by these rules,and why would I want to buy them?

pylum2 wrote:So what period of time IS going to be covered by these rules,and why would I want to buy them?

1500 to around 1700, afaik, what is called "Pike and Shot" by many.

It seems to cover the period from the introduction of the musket into effective usage, until the introduction of the linear formation and the final dump of the pike.


The engagements in the Americas imho do not have the characteristics that make special Renaissance warfare rules necessary. There were not that many battles that were decided by muskets, pikes or artillery. I will wait for the FOGR rules and the FOG expansion, however.

Got the rules and army lists today. Very happy bo I must say. Surprised to see that Aztecs were included but Asians (Koreans, Samurai, Ming) were not!

Huaxtec15mm wrote:Got the rules and army lists today. Very happy bo I must say. Surprised to see that Aztecs were included but Asians (Koreans, Samurai, Ming) were not!

Bear in mind that a LOT of stuff was missing, not just eastern lists. These are by no means anywhere near the amount of lists they'll be doing, just a quick sample of some armies. The email did say that some more lists would be coming shortly too.

NicktheLemming wrote:

Huaxtec15mm wrote:Got the rules and army lists today. Very happy bo I must say. Surprised to see that Aztecs were included but Asians (Koreans, Samurai, Ming) were not!

Bear in mind that a LOT of stuff was missing, not just eastern lists. These are by no means anywhere near the amount of lists they'll be doing, just a quick sample of some armies. The email did say that some more lists would be coming shortly too.

Indeed it does say "2" more army lists! I missed that on my first glance as I was in such a big hurry to print out the army lists. Heres hoping for Ming, Koreans, and Samurai in the next list!

'Indeed it does say "2" more army lists! ... Heres hoping for Ming, Koreans, and Samurai in the next list!'

That will be impressive if they get that lot all in just 2 lists...

timmy1 wrote:'Indeed it does say "2" more army lists! ... Heres hoping for Ming, Koreans, and Samurai in the next list!'

That will be impressive if they get that lot all in just 2 lists...

Well, I stand corrected.

Obviously the powers that be deem the Aztecs to be a FOGR army. It will be interesting to see how the FOGR army compares to the FOG army.

Huaxtec15mm wrote:Got the rules and army lists today. Very happy bo I must say. Surprised to see that Aztecs were included but Asians (Koreans, Samurai, Ming) were not!

What you have is a quick and dirty selection to get play testing the rules with.

nikgaukroger wrote:

Huaxtec15mm wrote:Got the rules and army lists today. Very happy bo I must say. Surprised to see that Aztecs were included but Asians (Koreans, Samurai, Ming) were not!

What you have is a quick and dirty selection to get play testing the rules with.

Yeah, I finally figured that out!