Slitherine

Hopefully!... "3D Laser Scanning" of Objects into usable "Computer Format" can speed up "Game-Icon creation!". The 'Object' sits on a rotating circular platter as the laser scanner... scans the object for a full 360-degrees.

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Thanks. Now I want a gift Leopard 2 tank for Barbarossa.

I wonder what its PC2 game stats would be?

Retributarr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:19 am Hopefully!... "3D Laser Scanning" of Objects into usable "Computer Format" can speed up "Game-Icon creation!". The 'Object' sits on a rotating circular platter as the laser scanner... scans the object for a full 360-degrees.

Thanks for the thought Ret, but its no good for us at the moment. A friend of mine owns his own scanning company for games, TV and Film ( https://www.3dscanstore.com/ ) and at the moment it's more trouble than its worth for making vehicles in the way we need them.

Scanning the real thing is unlikely to say the least .. even infantry .. whats the point if you can't get the correct uniforms and equipment? We could see if we could hire some from the IWM or private collectors but thats just going to add to the time and cost. And how do we get to scan an He111z?

Scanning a plastic model? You've got to buy in the model ( if anyone makes it ), pay someone to build ( no ones going to build 500 $40 models for free ) and paint it matt ( because you can't easily scan shiny objects ), pay for it to be scanned and cleaned up ( a scan consists of multiple millions of triangles and is error prone and can't separate things like wheels and tracks if they're attached to the model ) before the low poly game version is built over the top. Then you still have to do the usual baking of the high res, texture creation, breaking it up into usable sections for the game .. overall it would cost about 4x as much as we have the budget for. And can you imagine modders reaction to that!

As for buying in from model banks .. been there, done that, wouldn't do it again. Some are good but they never meet your own particular requirements so often need to be rebuilt and so retextured, actually costing you more time. And then theres the varieties of different unit types and sub-types that no one ever models.

No. For low-res game models its far more efficient to get a competent modeller/texturer.

Recent developments in Unreal might make the low res model less of a requirement in some, very specific circumstances however it'll still needs to be manually UV'd and textured to allow for specific game requirements.

P

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:58 pm

Retributarr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:19 am Hopefully!... "3D Laser Scanning" of Objects into usable "Computer Format" can speed up "Game-Icon creation!". The 'Object' sits on a rotating circular platter as the laser scanner... scans the object for a full 360-degrees.

Scanning a plastic model? You've got to buy in the model ( if anyone makes it ), pay someone to build ( no ones going to build 500 $40 models for free ) and paint it matt ( because you can't easily scan shiny objects ), pay for it to be scanned and cleaned up ( a scan consists of multiple millions of triangles and is error prone and can't separate things like wheels and tracks if they're attached to the model ) before the low poly game version is built over the top. Then you still have to do the usual baking of the high res, texture creation, breaking it up into usable sections for the game .. overall it would cost about 4x as much as we have the budget for. And can you imagine modders reaction to that!

As for buying in from model banks .. been there, done that, wouldn't do it again. Some are good but they never meet your own particular requirements so often need to be rebuilt and so retextured, actually costing you more time. And then theres the varieties of different unit types and sub-types that no one ever models.

Thanks for the glimpse inside the sausage factory, I really enjoy hearing about the details of how these things are made. My first thought when looking at those beautiful models Ret posted was: "how does the scanner tell the difference between, say, a bogey with a track that moves smoothly around it and a fixed cylinder with the track fused to it? How would it know a turret could be rotated?" I guessed it can't; it's interesting to see your assessment.

Do 3D modellers of rare WW2 equipment mostly work from archive photos, or are there spec sheets with detailed drawings for everything you need? And where did the drawings come from?

Scrapulous wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:29 pm

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:58 pm

Retributarr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:19 am Hopefully!... "3D Laser Scanning" of Objects into usable "Computer Format" can speed up "Game-Icon creation!". The 'Object' sits on a rotating circular platter as the laser scanner... scans the object for a full 360-degrees.

Scanning a plastic model? You've got to buy in the model ( if anyone makes it ), pay someone to build ( no ones going to build 500 $40 models for free ) and paint it matt ( because you can't easily scan shiny objects ), pay for it to be scanned and cleaned up ( a scan consists of multiple millions of triangles and is error prone and can't separate things like wheels and tracks if they're attached to the model ) before the low poly game version is built over the top. Then you still have to do the usual baking of the high res, texture creation, breaking it up into usable sections for the game .. overall it would cost about 4x as much as we have the budget for. And can you imagine modders reaction to that!

As for buying in from model banks .. been there, done that, wouldn't do it again. Some are good but they never meet your own particular requirements so often need to be rebuilt and so retextured, actually costing you more time. And then theres the varieties of different unit types and sub-types that no one ever models.

Thanks for the glimpse inside the sausage factory, I really enjoy hearing about the details of how these things are made. My first thought when looking at those beautiful models Ret posted was: "how does the scanner tell the difference between, say, a bogey with a track that moves smoothly around it and a fixed cylinder with the track fused to it? How would it know a turret could be rotated?" I guessed it can't; it's interesting to see your assessment.

Do 3D modellers of rare WW2 equipment mostly work from archive photos, or are there spec sheets with detailed drawings for everything you need? And where did the drawings come from?

On the whole a 3D modeller is a 3D modeller .. some will tend to speciallise into areas they prefer but they all have to be able to interpret a 3D shape from 2D drawings/photographs, so the skills are the same - making something they've never seen or thats never existed, whether its rare WW2 or Manga, as are the prectical requirements.

So quality of reference depends on the model.

For most theres a whole host of technical reference with detailed drawings, though the best ( my opinion only ) are by Hillary Louis Doyle. However regular plan drawings alone are not enough to reproduce a 3D object, especially rounded shapes like aircraft, so you have to supplement it with period photos. The difficulty there can often be knowing exactly what you're looking at. Vehicles are often refitted/repaired/upgraded in the factory or the field and can be highly personalised so you need to do your research to make sure you you're reference is correct

Ships are the hardest as its near impossible to get enough reference images to really understand whats going on. And for the smaller nations or for any prototypes or paper tanks theres often nothing but factory snaps or sketches.

The internet is only good for so much so I tend to amass a lot of books from around the world. Polish and Japanese are particularly good for the more obscure vehicles and are often bilingual.

So drawings .. again Hillary Doyle is my goto for German vehicles ( look for Panzer Tracts ) but you can find a ton of books, mostly aimed at modellers ( look for Panzerwrecks.com, PEKO publishing, Classic Colours, even Kagero and Squadron/Signal have an interesting light selection ) . Many of the lighter ones are poor so don't rely on one set of plans without doing a lot of checking. You'll often find their proportions are wrong or they've simply been badly scanned/resized/printed. However the specialist publishers, like those mentioned above, are usually quite reliable.

Pat

Thanks again for sharing, Pat! I respect the work that you're describing. Sometimes I have a very hard time understanding what I'm looking when I see archive photos of WW2 materiel, so the difficulty you describe makes a lot of sense to me. I imagine keeping the references straight is particularly difficult in a game like this, where you have to represent many of the different Ju-88 versions, for example. Especially with aircraft, sometimes the differences seem so subtle.

Cheers, Pat.