Page 1 of 1
Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:56 pm
by brettwjohnson
I'm playing the Invasion campaign again (and enjoying the updates, like the training camp).
Repeating an suggestion I made after my first play thru and seeing the same problem with this play thru.
I suggest changing "Fortify" to allowing it to be used after move, instead of only allowing if the unit doesn't move.
This would allow units to move and fortify instead of move and attack (which as a defensive unit, is exactly right).
Using "Spear Maidens" (a L2 unit (i.e., 1 upgrade from base class)) as an exemplar... As currently implemented, they are primarily defensive units. However, by the time they move into position (to defend), they typically take a bunch of kills/wounds from enemy units before they even get the chance to fortify. This makes their ability mostly pointless. Currently, I only buy them as a stepping stone to winged Valkyries and can't wait to get rid of them.
If we compare Spear Maidens to Beserkers (both L2 units), Beserkers have a bunch of useful abilities (Ambush, All Terrain, Slayer), while Spear Maidens have the mostly useless "Fortify."
Changing Fortify to allow it to work after movement would make it a decent defensive ability, rather than one that is (mostly) currently pointless.
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:13 pm
by OBG_primetide
you know what - I want to give that a try. We need to make sure that fortify does not simply make you into a mobile advance tank...but I agree with the use case.
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:37 pm
by brettwjohnson
Glad to hear it was useful...
IMHO, this will make Spear Maidens at least somewhat viable.
Comparing the current power levels (i.e., balance) of Spear Maidens to Beserkers, Beserkers are by far the better unit. (amazing attackers, can ambush, -30% to kills). Beserkers are probably just a little too good...
Fortify gives Spear Maidens the same immunity (albeit "perfect") to kills that Beserkers get as a default passive.
Note also, the player is on the offense most of the time in the vast majority of scenarios (I think all in the Invasion campaign), which inherently biases the value of offensive units over defensive units - even if they are perfectly balanced in the general utility sense...
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:21 am
by WarHomer
brettwjohnson wrote: ↑Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:56 pm
I'm playing the Invasion campaign again (and enjoying the updates, like the training camp).
Repeating an suggestion I made after my first play thru and seeing the same problem with this play thru.
I suggest changing "Fortify" to allowing it to be used after move, instead of only allowing if the unit doesn't move.
This would allow units to move and fortify instead of move and attack (which as a defensive unit, is exactly right).
Using "Spear Maidens" (a L2 unit (i.e., 1 upgrade from base class)) as an exemplar... As currently implemented, they are primarily defensive units. However, by the time they move into position (to defend), they typically take a bunch of kills/wounds from enemy units before they even get the chance to fortify. This makes their ability mostly pointless. Currently, I only buy them as a stepping stone to winged Valkyries and can't wait to get rid of them.
If we compare Spear Maidens to Beserkers (both L2 units), Beserkers have a bunch of useful abilities (Ambush, All Terrain, Slayer), while Spear Maidens have the mostly useless "Fortify."
Changing Fortify to allow it to work after movement would make it a decent defensive ability, rather than one that is (mostly) currently pointless.
+1
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:27 am
by OBG_primetide
We tried it, we tested it and we think we will add it into the next patch.
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:39 pm
by brettwjohnson
Implementation Question from the patch notes...
" Fortify Skill: Fortify now only costs an action, not a move and an action, making units with the skill more useful and versatile. Attention: This means units with the skill will auto-fortify after moving"
I assume that means they will auto-fortify IF they don't attack after moving (i.e., at end of turn, if they still have their action)...
If they are actually auto-fortifying after moving (burning both action & move), then they couldn't move and attack...
These units should be able to:
a) Move and Attack OR
b) Move and Fortify
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:38 am
by OBG_Marko
you are correct
they will auto-fortify if they have an action left when you end the turn/skip this unit
if they have both actions left and are wounded, they will auto-rest instead
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:44 pm
by Scrapulous
I'm a little late to the discussion, but I'm a huge fan of this change. It also makes the fortify items more useful. Thanks!
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:04 pm
by Molve
I must say, the way you can't move after acting means a huge change in how to play this type of game.
So often I'm making a ranged attack with my archers/slingers only to get confused I can't move back to allow a fresh melee unit to guard the vulnerable "artillery"...
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:23 am
by OBG_primetide
But that was the same in FG1 and all along in our game - move-> action...not action-> move
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:47 pm
by Molve
OBG_primetide wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:23 am
But that was the same in FG1
With respect, that game is 25 years old.
I'm not saying your argument isn't valid from the "that's why" angle; I'm saying you should expect most of your customers comparing your game with contemporary offerings (such as Panzer Corps).
Re: Suggestion - Change "Fortify"
Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:52 pm
by Klaun
As a matter of fact, in FG1 you could move after attacking. And there was an undo button. What you could not do: First move several units in place and then attack one after the other.
But there are other games where you cannot move after attacking like WH40k Gladius or Age of Wonders. So it is not an industry standard.