Slitherine

We had the following situation in a game yesterday between Anglo-Danish (AD) and Carolingian Frankish (CF) armies.

AD Unit A charged charges CF unit X.
CF unit Y could intercept this charge, but if it moved the full movement then it would contact AD unit B, which was LF.

Is unit Y forced to cut short its intercept charge and stop before contacting unit B, or is the intercept charge counted as a charge on unit B?

The intercepting unit cannot make contact unless to the flank or rear of the intercepted unit. In all other circumstances they stop short of any enemy and let them make contact. The move distance is the Maximum they can move to acheive this.

The interception charge can only move directly forwards and only as far as it can move without contacting enemy (unless contacting the chargers in the flank or rear as a legitimate flank or rear charge).

If you intercept and end up 1mm from the front of the light foot it would still be a legitimate interception as long as it crossed the path of the charge. There is no requirement for interceptions to move their full distance.

Thanks,
I didn't think that interceptors could contact another unit, but the rules seemed a little unclear. We played that the intercepting unit could move forward but had to stop short of the LF so it seems we got it right.

Martin

An interception charge must be directly forward (except as below) and can be up to the limit of the battle group’s ZOI. It cannot include any shifts, changes of formation or interpenetrations. It must either:
Cross the path of the charging enemy battle group.
or Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group.

I am not sure what is unclear about this. I suppose you could say that an enemy BG does not by right prevent an interception but how is the intercepting BG crossing the path of the charge if to do so it has to charge a different enemy BG?

You definitley played it correctly.

Can HF interceptioncharge enemy LH that have their backs to the HF (but are within 2MUs) and who declare a charge on a BG of MF, thus moving away from/out of the HF's ZOI?

Red LH is positioned squarely to the rear of, and 5 MUs from, fragmented blue MF (blue MF is facing away from the LH). Blue HF is positioned squarely to the rear of, and less than 2 MUs from, red LH.

Red LH declares a charge on fragmented blue MF to force a CMT. Does blue HF declare its interception charge at this point cutting red LH's charge? We didn't play it that way but instead:

Blue MF fails the CMT and routs.

Blue HF makes (we read declares) an interception charge. Is blue HF entitled to interception charge an enemy that is moving out of its 2 MU ZOI, as opposed to moving across the ZOI or moving closer to the HF exerting the ZOI? Is moving out of the ZOI "charging thorugh" the ZOI (page 62)?

Red LH reacts to the blue HF interception charge and evades.

Blue HF moves up to a maximum of 2 MUs (not a variable die roll).

Did we play this right or should the LH charge have been cut straight away by the blue HF interception charge?

Intercept charges on a flank or rear actually contact the enemy. Right away cancelling the charge.

All other intercept charges move into the path of the charger and are struck by the charger.


Does that help?

Yes, we had one like that a while ago. Intercept charging into the rear of a unit that is running away (faster) from you. The logic escapes me, but them are the rules


John

zoltan wrote:Can HF interceptioncharge enemy LH that have their backs to the HF (but are within 2MUs) and who declare a charge on a BG of MF, thus moving away from/out of the HF's ZOI?

Red LH is positioned squarely to the rear of, and 5 MUs from, fragmented blue MF (blue MF is facing away from the LH). Blue HF is positioned squarely to the rear of, and less than 2 MUs from, red LH.

Red LH declares a charge on fragmented blue MF to force a CMT. Does blue HF declare its interception charge at this point cutting red LH's charge? We didn't play it that way but instead:

Blue MF fails the CMT and routs.

Blue HF makes (we read declares) an interception charge. Is blue HF entitled to interception charge an enemy that is moving out of its 2 MU ZOI, as opposed to moving across the ZOI or moving closer to the HF exerting the ZOI? Is moving out of the ZOI "charging thorugh" the ZOI (page 62)?

Red LH reacts to the blue HF interception charge and evades.

Blue HF moves up to a maximum of 2 MUs (not a variable die roll).

Did we play this right or should the LH charge have been cut straight away by the blue HF interception charge?

My initial thought was that the LH charge is cancelled immediately but then I checked the sequence of play.

It would appear that the MF test then the interception charge happens and the charge is cancelled.

The LH would get caught in the rear by the HF and be in real trouble so realistically this would not be a sound tactic. Far better for the LH to move 4.9 MU towards the MF and shoot them then charge next turn when the HF will be too far away to intercept.

Alternatively charge the HF with something else and distract them.

recharge wrote:Yes, we had one like that a while ago. Intercept charging into the rear of a unit that is running away (faster) from you. The logic escapes me, but them are the rules

Well speed is just part of it. The LH are clearly not going to ignore the fact that enemy are upon them. Practically since the LH don't have to charge the HF distract the LH from focusing on someone else if they are close enough. Not a question of speed at all.

hammy wrote:

An interception charge must be directly forward (except as below) and can be up to the limit of the battle group’s ZOI. It cannot include any shifts, changes of formation or interpenetrations. It must either:
Cross the path of the charging enemy battle group.
or Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group.

I am not sure what is unclear about this. I suppose you could say that an enemy BG does not by right prevent an interception but how is the intercepting BG crossing the path of the charge if to do so it has to charge a different enemy BG?

You definitley played it correctly.

I our situation the charging unit was lined up next to a friendly unit of LF but a few inches behind the front line of the LF. The charged unit was directly in front of the chargers and the intercepting unit was further back but in front of both the charging unit and the LF. Its interception charge would take it past the front of the unit being charged and it therefore crossed the path of the charging unit. If it moved its full move then it would not contact the chargers but would contact the LF.

The rules say that an interception charge will stop short of contacting the charging unit but they do not specify what happens if another enemy unit would be contacted. The question is whether the interception charge is actually a charge and would force another unit to react to that charge or is simply a countercharge.

Regards
Martin

hammy wrote:It would appear that the MF test then the interception charge happens and the charge is cancelled.

That is the concise answer. It looks a little strange for LH being intercepted by HF, but, as Hammy said, the LH can move for a fresh position and then charge, which represents LH regrouping at a safe distance for further action.

The more typical case with foot trying to charge their way out of a bad spot being intercepted by mounted from the flank or rear looks and feels right.

ottomanmjm wrote:In our situation the charging unit was lined up next to a friendly unit of LF but a few inches behind the front line of the LF. The charged unit was directly in front of the chargers and the intercepting unit was further back but in front of both the charging unit and the LF. Its interception charge would take it past the front of the unit being charged and it therefore crossed the path of the charging unit. If it moved its full move then it would not contact the chargers but would contact the LF.

The rules say that an interception charge will stop short of contacting the charging unit but they do not specify what happens if another enemy unit would be contacted. The question is whether the interception charge is actually a charge and would force another unit to react to that charge or is simply a countercharge.

Right, what I think you are saying is that in this situation (not the rear charge one) an intercept charge could have put itself in the path of the charge but to do so it would need to hit another enemy BG. That is not allowed.

Intercept charges can only contact the BG they are trying to intercept and then only if they are a legal flank or rear charge. Otherwise intercept chrges have to move directly forwards without dropping bases back and then get themselves in the path of the charge. If the intercept charge could get into the path of the charge without contacting the light foot then it would be fine. If not then it is not allowed.

Interception charges are not the same as charges (unless they are a flank or rear charge in which case when they contact the charging BG they can step forwards as if they were a charge)

Again I will repeat what the rules say about interception charges:

It must either:
Cross the path of the charging enemy battle group.
or Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group

Cross the path is not contact. Contact is only possible if it is a flank or rear charge.

The rules say that an interception charge will stop short of contacting the charging unit but they do not specify what happens if another enemy unit would be contacted. The question is whether the interception charge is actually a charge and would force another unit to react to that charge or is simply a countercharge.

The only time an intercept is considered to be a charge is if it contacts the flank/rear of the enemy and that's the only time an intercept may contact an enemy BG.
At all other other times you may only move forwards to 'block' the charge on your own friendly BGs (although you count as charging from a POA point of view)

Well in my example the HF interception chargers would indeed have contacted the rear of the LH chargers (as the latter were 2 MUs from the former). So I ask again, in this (rare) situation does the HF interception charge:

1. in any way negate the LH declared charge on the fragmented MF forcing a CMT (it appears not - the MF still test)?
2. become a "normal" charge in which case the LH have full "response" rights such as electing to evade rather than being forced to stand still and get hit in the rear?

An interception charge that is a legal flank or rear charge cancels the enemy charge so there is no charge.

hammy wrote:Intercept charges can only contact the BG they are trying to intercept and then only if they are a legal flank or rear charge. Otherwise intercept chrges have to move directly forwards without dropping bases back and then get themselves in the path of the charge. If the intercept charge could get into the path of the charge without contacting the light foot then it would be fine. If not then it is not allowed.

Interception charges are not the same as charges (unless they are a flank or rear charge in which case when they contact the charging BG they can step forwards as if they were a charge)

There is nothing in the interception rules stopping contact with enemy BGs - though the standard rules do apply.

This means a "frontal" interception can contact enemy - provided it is in a position to provide an overlap to an existing melee.

For a flank/rear charge it can contact any enemy BG with "legal charge contact", and must step forward as normal. It might only contact the intercepted BG by stepping forward, and the contacted part might not be in the ZOI, however some part of the intercepted BG must be in the ZOI - like the restricted zone the ZOI is not blocked by other BGs.

1. in any way negate the LH declared charge on the fragmented MF forcing a CMT (it appears not - the MF still test)?

The MF still test - because intercepts are not declared until after the test.
(as per the 'sequence of action' table)

2. become a "normal" charge in which case the LH have full "response" rights such as electing to evade rather than being forced to stand still and get hit in the rear?

Intercepts move before evades - so they sill be contacted before they can evade.
(as per the 'sequence of action' table)


Also.... From the official FAQ:

What happens if charging skirmishers are themselves intercepted by non-skirmishers, can they evade?

An interception or evade is a response to a charge. It is not a response to an intercept charge. Troops therefore cannot evade from interceptors. They cannot halt 1 MU away from the interceptors either.

Rationale: Once skirmishers are committed to an all out charge they are committed.

zoltan wrote:Well in my example the HF interception chargers would indeed have contacted the rear of the LH chargers (as the latter were 2 MUs from the former). So I ask again, in this (rare) situation does the HF interception charge:

1. in any way negate the LH declared charge on the fragmented MF forcing a CMT (it appears not - the MF still test)?

Technically yes - the charge is cancelled when the interception is declared. However this happens after the MF test for being charged when fragmented. If the MF were revealed by other BGs evading, or routing, then you would not need to test as that test occurs after the interception.

2. become a "normal" charge in which case the LH have full "response" rights such as electing to evade rather than being forced to stand still and get hit in the rear?

When the interception is declared the LH's charge is cancelled, and the interception is treated as a flank/rear charge. Technically that means you can evade.

When the interception is declared the LH's charge is cancelled, and the interception is treated as a flank/rear charge. Technically that means you can evade.

But interception charges happen before evades, so even if a skirmishers charge is cancelled it is still contacted by the interception.