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About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:45 pm
by Athos1660
The manual says : "Dragoons cannot charge unfragmented non-light troops (other than artillery) in
open terrain, even in flank or rear" (p. 30)
Dragoons cannot charge any non-light troops (including fragmented ones) in rough and difficult terrains either, right ?
In other words, Dragoons can only charge :
- fragmented non-light infantry or cavalry (?) in open terrain,
- any artillery (fragmented, disrupted or steady) in open terrain,
- light troops anywhere (rough, difficult open or non-open terrain),
(edit)
- any non-light
infantry (fragmented, disrupted or steady) in difficult, rough or non-open terrain (à leurs risques et périls) ?
Re: About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:13 am
by Athos1660
1) I tried to make a scenario with disrupted or fragmented cav, using the methods
there.
It does not work (error messages). Anyone knows how to do it in P&S ?
2) Patch notes somewhere ?
Re: About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:44 pm
by Athos1660
Here is the code about Non-Permissible Charges :
Code: Select all
FUNCTION ChargePermitted(me, enemy)
{
int ret;
ret = 1;
// These types can never charge
if ((IsArtillery(me) == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me,"Battle_Wagons") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me,"Train") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me,"Boat") == 1)) // Amphibious left out as probably don't exist
{
ret = 0;
}
// Foot (other than keils) cannot charge mounted (other than light troops)
if ((IsFoot(me) == 1) && (IsMounted(enemy) == 1))
{
if ((PercentKeil(me) == 0) && (IsLightTroops(enemy) == 0) && (MaximumRange(me) > 0))
{
ret = 0;
}
}
if ((IsLightTroops(enemy) == 0) && (IsArtillery(enemy) == 0) && (IsLimber(enemy) == 0) && (IsOpen(GetUnitX(enemy), GetUnitY(enemy)) == 1))
{
// Light foot and commanded shot cannot charge unbroken non-artillery non-light troops in open
if ((IsUnitSquadType(me, "Light_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Commanded_Shot") == 1))
{
if (GetAttrib(enemy, "MoraleState") < 3)
{
ret = 0;
}
}
// Dragoons cannot charge unfragmented non-artillery non-light troops in open
if (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Dragoons") == 1)
{
if (GetAttrib(enemy, "MoraleState") < 2)
{
ret = 0;
}
}
}
return ret;
}
Does the first part of it...
Code: Select all
// Foot (other than keils) cannot charge mounted (other than light troops)
if ((IsFoot(me) == 1) && (IsMounted(enemy) == 1))
{
if ((PercentKeil(me) == 0) && (IsLightTroops(enemy) == 0) && (MaximumRange(me) > 0))
{
ret = 0;
}
}
...means Dragoons can never charge non-light cavalry (ie. are dragoons 'FOOT' ?) ?
... while the final part...
Code: Select all
if ((IsLightTroops(enemy) == 0) && (IsArtillery(enemy) == 0) && (IsLimber(enemy) == 0) && (IsOpen(GetUnitX(enemy), GetUnitY(enemy)) == 1))
{
// Dragoons cannot charge unfragmented non-artillery non-light troops in open
if (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Dragoons") == 1)
{
if (GetAttrib(enemy, "MoraleState") < 2)
{
ret = 0;
}
}
... means Dragoons cannot charge unfragmented non-artillery non-light troops in open (as it is written in the code and in the manual).
Does it mean in brief that Dragoons can actually :
- never charge non-light Cavalry (whatever the terrain and the cav. moral state are)
- charge non-light infantry when the latter is :
- fragmented in open terrain,
- fragmented, disrupted or steady in difficult, rough or non-open terrain
- charge artillery and light troops whatever the morale state of the latter and the terrain (rough, difficult, open or non-open) are ?
Re: About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:45 pm
by Athos1660
Athos1660 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:44 pm
(...) are dragoons 'FOOT' ?
The answer is here, Athos :
Code: Select all
// Returns 1 if unit qualifies as foot, otherwise 0
FUNCTION IsFoot(me)
{
int ret;
ret = 0;
if ((IsUnitSquadType(me, "Determined_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Heavy_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Mixed_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Medium_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Warriors") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Light_Foot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Commanded_Shot") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Dragoons") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Mob") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Battle_Wagons") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Artillery") == 1) || (IsUnitSquadType(me, "Light_Artillery") == 1))
{
ret = 1;
}
return ret;
}
Re: About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:23 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
Whew, that looked confusing. But yes, based on my experience playing the game I believe you are correct about when and who dragoons can charge.
Re: About Non-Permissible Charges
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:19 am
by Athos1660
I guess it just comes from the fact that the extract of the manual about non-permissible charges seems to be partly the copied/pasted comments of the code. So those like me who did not get that dragoons are considered as foot may not understand that the following sentence also concerns dragoons : "Foot units other than those with large pike blocks (keils) cannot charge cavalry" (p. 29).
On a different note, I'd be interested in the historical arguments that give Dragoons and Detached musketeers the same Close Combat Rating in open terrain (apart from the famous quote from Grimmelshausen : « They took us for musketeers, seeing that no animal in the world is more like a musketeer than is a dragoon, and if a dragoon falls from his horse, he rises up a musketeer »
).
btw do anybody know a reference book or (web) article about dragoons of the 16th and 17th centuries ?