Slitherine

Hi Guys, i'm new in this Forum.

First of all, i have to thank the creators of this really wonderful mod. Many, many lovely ideas and changes make playing this mod an adventure. For example the Lilli Marlen Song after the victory is one of this lovely ideas.

Now i want to give my two cents/questions:

- after i upgraded my Fallschirmjäger into 44 Fallis, i can't drop them. Only unloading over an airfield is possible. Any Reason?
- spawning fighters somewhere in the middle of Germany aren't really realistic
- even spawning partisans adjacent axis units/spawning in controlled, spotted areas aren't good
- why can naval mines evade from my tactical bombers?
- i think too, naval mines should be handled similar to land mines or fortifications, if once spotted they should be permanent visible. Like marked in the sea/naval maps of Admiral Dönitz.

Sorry, if something isn't understandable, german is my native language.

Again Thanks a lot for many many hours of exciting gameplay.

Halgar

Uhu would you give some tips what to do with the german navy, uboats iam okay with but kind of lost with the capital ships near norway and france. Thank you!

So I started making some fixes:

Delta66 wrote: - There are two cities named Stavropol in Russia (this may be intentional though), one in the Caucasus (143,56) this one seems correct, and one on the mid Volga river (149,28) this one may be Tolyatti instead.

Actually the one in the Caucasus was renamed as Voroshilovsk in 1935 in honour of Vorshilov Marshal and was only named back to Stavropol in 1943. So in the 1941 map it should be named Voroshilovsk. If I was a real perfectionist with a hapless obsession for expertism I could even add a hex action sometime in 1943 which changes the name of that city to Stavropol, but since I am becoming lazy these days, for now I just leave it. Maybe in the v8.99 version of this mod, when there will be nothing else to change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavropol

The other one on the Volga is even more interesting as originally it was a fortress called Stavropol, and it was a rather small town, but during the construction of a large dam on the Volga in the 1950's the town was submerged under the artificial lake, created by the dam and so the whole town was re-built on a higher flat area. And this new city, which had grown bigger was renamed as Tolyatti in 1964 after an Italian (!) communits party leader, Palmiro Togliatti. And it is still known as such nowdays. But, before that it was known as Stavropol or Stavropol-on-Volga to differentiate from the other Stavropol in the Caucasus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolyatti
http://www.tgl.ru/history-and-geography-en/

Not an error, just a suggestion, the town of Abbeville (52,43) in France is a rather small town for the size of the mod, today population is 20 000, and probably less than 10 000 in 1940.
I suggest adding the much larger city of 'Le Havre' (49,44) which has today a population close to 200 000, and which was, and still is, a major port.

Abbeville is mainly on the map due to its importance in the 1940 campaign as the Germans reached the Channel and cut off the Allied forces at that town hence it is a victory objective in scenario 2. But, you are right it should not be a major port as it is rather inland and Le Havre should be there, so I will just move Abbeville one hex inland and add Le Havre. However, due to the scale of the map I cannot make Le Havre a port properly at its geographically correct position.

If it was a port ships could move through it like this, unless I add some more landmass to the north of it, but that would distort and reduce the Channel:






So, maybe I should add Le Havre a bit south where the Seine meets the sea.

Uhu wrote: - as it is a good idea to have the Hetzer in the Marder II family, I would put the Jagdpanzer IV and IV/70 in the StuG family, so they will be used too and strengthen the assault guns line, because with the arrival of the T-34/85's, they get butchered. I would put the Marder III's also in the Marder II family, plus the Hornisse too - maybe somebody will use them... (I never).

OK, so basically there should be two mobile AT families the Marder and the Stug: a cheaper and lighter but less effective and the more sophisticated StuG class. The Marder family ATs use the light Pz.II/Pz.38 chassis and the StuG family class uses the Pz.III/IV chassis. Historically the Wehrmacht used more and more fixed turret tank hunters, in some cases even one or more tank battalions of certain armoured divisions were equipped with Stugs instead of tanks, so I support any change that make the player deploy more of these. The end of the Marder class family would be the Hetzer and the end of the StuG family class would be the Jagdpanzer IV/70. And maybe the Hornesse and Ferdinand could be in the same family as well. These latter two have little tactical value, but if they can be upgraded for reduced price some might do.

Romanian T-4. I think, it should have the same price, as the German late Pz IVH: the Romanians got many Pz IV's, so it was not so rare, in the other hand, since the Pz III - Panther upgrade option, it is simply not interesting to pay almost 300 prestige for a - in 44 more and more - obsolote machine, if you can have a Panther for just 150 prestige more.

OK. But then same goes for the Hungarian one.

- Why have the Fw 190's so high fuel level? I'm not an aviation expert, but Wikipedia writes a range of 800 km and 850 km for Bf 109G-6. So, fuel level for Fw 190's shall be between 50-60?

OK, I have revised the ranges of the German piston engine fighters. However, for gameplay reasons I cannot be fully consistent with these ranges: earlier I had to reduce the range of the Spitfires to prevent them from reaching German airspace from Britain and the German fighters had even shorter range, but in game it would mean less than 30 hexes which is way too short IMO. So I gave the German fighters 35-53 max fuel starting with the Bf 109 E and ending with the Fw 190 versions.

- The same thing with Ju 87D - also too high fuel level

I have reduced this one as well a bit, however the Ju 87 D had 300 litres more fuel capacity than the R so it should have longer range and probably that's why deducter gave them 71 and 53 max fuel respectively.

boehel73 wrote:Hi Guys, i'm new in this Forum.

First of all, i have to thank the creators of this really wonderful mod. Many, many lovely ideas and changes make playing this mod an adventure. For example the Lilli Marlen Song after the victory is one of this lovely ideas.

Hi, and welcome!

Thanks, I also like the little things like that, unfortunately nowdays game developers seem to forget to add them.

- after i upgraded my Fallschirmjäger into 44 Fallis, i can't drop them. Only unloading over an airfield is possible. Any Reason?

The historical reason is that while at least 10 Fallschirmjäger divisions were raised in 1944, they were not trained as paratroopers and fought like ordinary infantrymen due to the strategic situation and also due to the High Command's reluctance to use paratroopers after the heavy losses suffered during the invasion of Crete in 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallschirmj%C3%A4ger

There is another gameplay affecting reason, though: paratroopers could be used by the player to take far away cities and airfields and the AI is not capable of handling such unexpected invasions at any place on the map. The map is just too huge for the AI to tackle such dirty tricks by the human player. That's why the number of Axis paratroopers is maximazed at 2.

Note that in the unit purchase screen Fall44 units have the full name "Fallschirmjäger 44 (No paradrop!!!)" to warn the player. Also there is no parachute on their unit icon. That's all I could do to prevent this unpleasant surprise. Sorry about that.

The underlying problem here is that unit traits (like bridge engineer, para, fortkiller, etc) are not displayed in the game, but they should. So it is up to the player to guess which units have which trait.

- spawning fighters somewhere in the middle of Germany aren't really realistic

Allied fighters do not spawn in the middle of Germany. Spawning points for Allied aircraft: England, North Africa, Malta and the Ural. Probably they just moved there unseen covered by the fog of war.

- even spawning partisans adjacent axis units/spawning in controlled, spotted areas aren't good

I agree, but in WWII partisans had a bad habit to "spawn" and make trouble in occupied countries and territories. And in the editor it is not possible (without having more AI zones) to prevent them from spawning near Axis units. Thus they just spawn randomly at random time and place in certain territories.

- why can naval mines evade from my tactical bombers?

Tactical bombers were rarely used in minesweeping operations in WWII, maybe they should not even be able to attack naval mines. I am thinking about making it impossible.

- i think too, naval mines should be handled similar to land mines or fortifications, if once spotted they should be permanent visible. Like marked in the sea/naval maps of Admiral Dönitz.

Yeah, sure, I will try to do it like that, but it might have some side effects which have to be tested.

One issue to be fixed: with v1.5, the transported German U-Boats appear a lot of earlier, as the message reports it.

Again throws into the system ! After the capture of Leningrad was thrown out the window , and loading from saves leads to a black card ! Fix please for the mod is very interesting and play it with pleasure (thank you for your work ) and why on the global map scripts Barbarossa looks like the attack on Western Europe ?



p.s. Its the capital of the Soviet troops and the guerrillas have not taken until now ) Next move the landing of the allied hordes in Normandy )

Uhu wrote:One issue to be fixed: with v1.5, the transported German U-Boats appear a lot of earlier, as the message reports it.

Thx. Fixed.

uzbek2012 wrote:Again throws into the system ! After the capture of Leningrad was thrown out the window , and loading from saves leads to a black card ! Fix please for the mod is very interesting and play it with pleasure (thank you for your work ) ?

Well, there seems to be a language barrier here.

Almost certainly our dear friend uzbek2012 is writing in German and using google translator to share his most interesting posts with us here and that's why he did not respond to my post written in English. Now the CTDs or the "throwing out of the window" and back "into the system" is most certainly caused by the fact that he did not add the /nocache switch to the PanzerCorps.exe, which is highly recommended for this mod. When I was testing the v0.99 version of this mod once I had the same problem before I added the nocache switch: after playing more than 4-5 turns my game crashed and even my last savegame became corrupted because of the memory overflow.

So I would like to humbly ask one of our German speaking generals here to explain the situation to him and how to add the nocache switch. Since my German is very limited there is not much else that I could do at this point. Uhu? Anyone? Thanks in advance.

And also,

and why on the global map scripts Barbarossa looks like the attack on Western Europe

is because he is playing the game in German language and currently the mod only supports English. If someone plays the mod in PzC when German nationalisation is activated in the main screen some content is being read from the original files of PzC and not form the modded ones as those were not translated.

I'm not German ))) I'm Russian-speaking people )
Yes and translate through Yandex.The translation but as you can see he's terribly translates )))

And play on the German version as downloaded your cool mods c German site )
http://www.designmodproject.de/panzer-c ... europe-1-5
I'm a big fan of games like Panzer General and Panzer Corps ! And your work I really like but sometimes I don't the hell don't understand because of the language what to do )))







P.s. welcom !
http://blitzunion.ucoz.ru/
http://union.4bb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=971

Where can I download the English version of the game ?
This is for the English version of the game with the fixes?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6347v ... rope15.zip



No sooner allied troops entered Berlin ))) ?

Thx for your fast reply.

Seems to be a very big piece of work.

Okay, the 44Fallis, i agree.

But another time, spawning Fighters in the ural, after russia has surrenderd, is in the middle of germany in my opinion

What do you think? Is it possible to give some Mine Stats to AT units? In my Thoughts there should be AT Units they can hide in Forrest/Hills/Mountains to Ambush units.
Only adjacent units can see them, or perhaps recon units in there spotting range. This would make the AT "buyable" and not senseless.

Rail Transport for uboats in the black sea?! would be very nice and technical posible in historie, or?

Regards,

Halgar

uzbek2012 wrote:I'm not German ))) I'm Russian-speaking people )
Yes and translate through Yandex.The translation but as you can see he's terribly translates )))

Ah, harasho, harasho!

Where can I download the English version of the game ?
This is for the English version of the game with the fixes?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6347v ... rope15.zip

Yes.

boehel73 wrote:But another time, spawning Fighters in the ural, after russia has surrenderd, is in the middle of germany in my opinion

After the surrender of the USSR no more Soviet units spawn. (Except for the partisans who continue the resistance.)

What do you think? Is it possible to give some Mine Stats to AT units? In my Thoughts there should be AT Units they can hide in Forrest/Hills/Mountains to Ambush units.
Only adjacent units can see them, or perhaps recon units in there spotting range. This would make the AT "buyable" and not senseless.

That would be a major change from the vanilla rules, it would affect not only the AI, but also the human player I guess. If it worked, I think as a result many players would advance slower which would affect the balance. I think towed AT units are good enough now, especially when backed by artillery. Still, it might worth some testing. This idea came up in some other topics, too.

Rail Transport for uboats in the black sea?! would be very nice and technical posible in historie, or?

Theoretically it could work. U-boats could switch to a train in a port with a rail connection and then move on. However, U-boats could switch to train anywhere else as well, even at sea, which would be quite weird I guess...

Maybe I played bad but winter offensive of the Germans I have not seen in the Ardennes 1944 ) Still I wonder why all the time sometimes show our support units from different countries but during the defense of Berlin who have not been ))) Your mod is cool but I think it needs to be slightly modified ) why not make the possibility of alternatives ( for example, to attack England (operation Sea lion ) for a place of endless conquest of the Russian territory). After 92 move my troops were miserable but I had to sit and wait till all 99 moves ( add the ability to lose or win if the player has not done its work,and show another screen saver in the end of the game as the player suffered 99 moves )

McGuba wrote:

uzbek2012 wrote:I'm not German ))) I'm Russian-speaking people )
Yes and translate through Yandex.The translation but as you can see he's terribly translates )))

Ah, harasho, harasho!

Where can I download the English version of the game ?
This is for the English version of the game with the fixes?
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6347v ... rope15.zip

Yes.

Your Russian perfect !))) Downloaded but when set to English I did not see your mod (the original game ) When installing the German version of the game runs without problems(it runs your mod ) I don't understand what's the matter ? )

Just finished my second playthrough with a (minor) victory so here's a brief AAR:

After defeating the Soviet Union in my first game, I wanted to defeat the Allies this time. My general plan was to combine a slow but steady advance in the east with the defeat of Great Britain. 1941 was thus spent advancing to the Dvina - Dnieper line (Minsk - Kiev - Odessa), which I managed by the end of the year (Turn 12), while at the same time preparing the Kriegsmarine for the invasion of the UK and clearing out Tobruk before advancing towards Cairo. I successfully invaded the UK in 1942, capturing London on Turn 29. The key was achieving air superiority by using FW-190A's, which then gave strategic bombers and the Kriegsmarine a free hand in around the island. At the same time I advanced towards the Caucasus, capturing Sevastopol on Turn 20 and Novorossijsk on Turn 29. Tobruk fell on Turn 19. The second winter found me involved in heavy fighting against the Russian counteroffensive at Rostov and Stavropol and against the British at El Alamein. The latter, together with well-entrenched British troops around Liverpool and Glasgow, resulted in the impossibility of reinforcing Tunis before US landings. After Glasgow finally fell on Turn 43, I was able to transfer the Luftwaffe to Sicily just in time to prevent its loss. The Caucasus oil fields at Grozny and Baku fell to me on Turn 47 and 56 respectively. These troops proceeded to invade Mesopotamia, with Baghdad captured on Turn 75 and the last oil field on Turn 78. Afrika Korps captured Cairo on Turn 52 and Allepo on turn 67. In the meantime, I started advancing towards Moscow from my defensive positions at Dnipropetrovsk (I tactically retreated from Rostov), and towards Smolensk from Minsk. I cleared out the heavily defended Kursk on Turn 70 and captured Smolensk on Turn 71. This was largely achieved thanks to having a steady force of Panther tanks and StuG III assault guns. The lack of the better Luftwaffe fighters, which were busy in the defense of Sicily and the attack on Malta, was offset by the entire FlaK force from France and Germany providing dense AA and sometimes AT support. The Italian part of Afrika Korps, which I sent back west after Cairo, was joined by some reinforcements from the UK and proceeded to attack Tunis. They captured on it Turn 85, while Malta fell almost simultaneously on Turn 84. Moscow fell on Turn 89, the northeasternmost cities Ulyanovsk and Kuybyshev on Turn 94 and Nizhny Novgorod on Turn 97. I ended fighting in Leningrad, half of which was captured. Only Arkhangelsk remained untouched from war. A satisfying game.

Things I might do differently if I were to play again:

- capture Smolensk and Pskov in 1941 and defend there
- capture Malta earlier

McGuba wrote: Yes, it would seriously affect the game, the 88 is already a very good unit, slightly over powered IMO in 1939-42, especially in North Africa. Thus I would not make it even better, but, if you want to, you can edit it and see how it changes the balance. It is not too hard to edit units in this game.

One can concentrate so many 88s in the East once the UK is taken that it would indeed make the game too easy. Though I wouldn't say it's overpowered, because it still takes plenty of casualties against Crusaders and Shermans at El Alamein (I kept killing 6-8 points and losing 5-6).

On an unrelated note, did you ever consider making Belgrade one the prestige-yielding cities together with Paris, Rome, Tunis, Budapest and Bucharest?

Having used the excellent Hungarian TAS TD I have noticed that there is no sound for its movement.

nightterrors wrote:it still takes plenty of casualties against Crusaders and Shermans at El Alamein (I kept killing 6-8 points and losing 5-6).

How? Why? In attack, or in defense?
Like, with AT guns, before attacking "soften" the target enough with guns, naval guns, level bombers, so it cannot fight back. In defense, stationate enough guns behind it - althrough I would not use it, as dedicated AT defender, only in cases, when there is no other AT gun in the vicinity (because of low defense value).

Rockety wrote:Uhu would you give some tips what to do with the german navy, uboats iam okay with but kind of lost with the capital ships near norway and france. Thank you!

Because of what? Let be precise. Mines? Air? Naval? Submarine?

Around the British Islands:
Usually I use - or try to use - capital ships behind the visibility of the enemy. Cruisers and Battleships have range 4, that means, they can hit destroyers far away. Do not park them on convoy routes, because that brings retaliation from the Allied. Stay away from range 3 bombers. The recon movement of the S-Boats is a great thing to avoid mines west of Norway: use them always to look for mines on the route of the German naval vessels.

In the _Mediterrean:
The same, but here, if you brought here some FW 190's, you can use your bombers too, which gives you a chance to deal with and destroy completely the Allied naval presence.

Summary: naval activity is totally a rock-paper-shear game
- U-Boats against capital ships
- Level bombers against capital ships
- Capital ships, destroyers against diing capital ships, or destroyers

- Capital ships against destroyers

- Tac. bombers against submarines
- Destroyers against diing submarines

Still, the high speed of the naval vessel can bring unwanted surprises... therefore try to block with submarines and in second line, with destroyers to prevent Allied capital ships, reach yours.
When facing strong air precense in the area, without countering it, it is better to use the U-Boat in deep dive to prevents high casualties.
Never try to duell with your capital ships againts full, or even half-strenght Allied ones - it brings just unnecessary casualties.

boehel73 wrote: Rail Transport for uboats in the black sea?! would be very nice and technical posible in historie, or?
Halgar

Just partly: only the type IIC-s were small enough to transport them on the rail. So, a few (6?) were transported to Constanca. It is modelled with the appearing German U-Boat, later in the game. So, I don't see any further need.

I started my official thread about tipps playing the mod efficiently. I plan to collect these tipps here:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=55486
I started with the basic principles and with the tipps for the first three introduction scenarios.

Issue: somehow, the game cannot handle this partisan-penalty effect: regardless, how it is set (beginning of Allied turn, end of Axis turn), it still makes the penalty already, when the partisans stepped on to the rails.
UPDATE!!! I made research with the editor in the script and it turned out, that the effect was working fine - just the message was not changed to the beginning of Axis turn! So, no prestige penalty, just the shock happened in reality.
UPDATE 2: oh, I read the message now again, carefully and it says "You will lose 50 prestige points at the end of the turn unless you destroy the partisans occupying the railway". Hmmm...maybe this should be communicated more louder.

Stats:
- Is not a little not to much the HA: 4 for the Guards_43? It is the same stat, as for minor nations with Panzerschreck/Faust? Although I find the HA: 3 for Regular_43 also questionable. Sure, modifying this brings some balance-questions, so I would be happy also with an good explanation too.
- SA: 5 for the Kradschützen/Armored Recon is also quite high for a non-elite, lightly armed recon force... I would give them SA: 3, mirroring these facts and that it has the big advantage to move fast, but with relative good defense and LOS: 3 For 44 version, SA: 4.

Uhu wrote: How? Why? In attack, or in defense?
Like, with AT guns, before attacking "soften" the target enough with guns, naval guns, level bombers, so it cannot fight back. In defense, stationate enough guns behind it - althrough I would not use it, as dedicated AT defender, only in cases, when there is no other AT gun in the vicinity (because of low defense value).

In defense in a desert tile (therefore not entrenched) against a 12-strength enemy tank. This was against the British counteroffensive at El Alamein. The terrain there is very narrow (3-4 hexes wide) and I had to make provision for retreat space (nothing sucks more than to lose a good unit to surrender) so there was only one artillery unit providing defensive fire (Italian 105's aren't particularly effective against hard targets).

nightterrors wrote: In defense in a desert tile (therefore not entrenched) against a 12-strength enemy tank. This was against the British counteroffensive at El Alamein. The terrain there is very narrow (3-4 hexes wide) and I had to make provision for retreat space (nothing sucks more than to lose a good unit to surrender) so there was only one artillery unit providing defensive fire (Italian 105's aren't particularly effective against hard targets).

Oh, I see. Well, than there was really no other options, than to take some casualties for higher good.

Sorry for a basic question, but do the install instructions work if you are running the Steam version of the game?