Slitherine

lapdog666 wrote:a suggestion, wouldnt it be better to call* Ptolemaic regular phalanx " Ptolemaic Klerouchoi Pikemen/phalanx"

regular just seems off, especially since other successors have unique names

I remember now, I called them "Regular" to account for the mercenary phalangites (as fielded at Raphia) and also the Klerouchoi. I might change it anyway, it adds a bit of flavour, as you suggest.

A little late to the party - just discovered this mod. Fantastic work Paul! Clearly a labor of love. Many thanks.

after playing about 70 battles against rome with tt mod , i'd say that pedites are making rome too strong. id suggest sticking to the vanila rome army lists (for rome), to the letter. that includes quantity and quality
average player can dominate anything with those units, especially if u put 4 generals in them, stick them together. basically i have to play cat and mouse against them in mp with my phalanx to win

another thing is that silver shields should have 'some armor'. i dont see what would be the difference between silver shields and ptolemaic agema phalanx

one flavor suggestion: i'd revert roman hastati principes to the vanila ones , textures

lapdog666 wrote:after playing about 70 battles against rome with tt mod , i'd say that pedites are making rome too strong. id suggest sticking to the vanila rome army lists (for rome), to the letter. that includes quantity and quality
average player can dominate anything with those units, especially if u put 4 generals in them, stick them together. basically i have to play cat and mouse against them in mp with my phalanx to win

another thing is that silver shields should have 'some armor'. i dont see what would be the difference between silver shields and ptolemaic agema phalanx

one flavor suggestion: i'd revert roman hastati principes to the vanila ones , textures

Thanks for raising the issue of the Pedites Extraordinarii, I have never been particularly happy with them, but to be honest I have had many other far more important things to worry about lately, both in the mod and in real life!

My thoughts behind their inclusion were this:

The whole ethos of the mod is that it is inspired by the Field of Glory Table Top army lists, and they are included in the Mid Republican Roman list from the Rise of Rome Book. My reading of what is known about the Pedites lead me to disgree with their classification in the lists, and I reclassified them as Superior/Elite (250/250) Heavy Impact Foot.

However, my reading also suggested to me that they were only a temporary force raised for camp guard duties, so I wondered if they would be used in a battle situation at all. For all we know, they could have been sent back to their parent legions when a battle was imminent.

So I could either delete them entirely, keep them as they are, or reclassify them as Superior Light Spear Medium Foot (as per the FOG Book). I wonder if any one else has any thoughts? Personally I am not bothered either way.

Mind you, as the Pedites are correctly costed at 87 points in the mod and are extremely limited in availability, I do wonder how you can possibly get 4 units of them in a battle! Even setting up a large custom campaign I can only purchase one unit in the initial battle, and I expect the same is true in custom battles and MP.

As far as the Silver Shields/Argyraspides are concerned, I gave you a quite detailed explanation of my thoughts a few weeks ago. Also, I actually built in several differences to some of the Pike Phalanx units in the mod, I thought it might be interesting to have these differences in contrast to the standard game. All the units in the Mod have their points values correctly costed using Richard's system, so it should make little difference to an armies overall effectiveness. If they have more effective units, they can afford fewer of them.

I am surprised that it is only the Argyraspides lack of armour that has raised comment. What about the below average Macedonian Chalkaspides, the above average Macedonian Bronze Shields, the slightly above average Spartan Pike etc?

If other people are unhappy with these differences please let me know, and I might return it all units back to Raw, Average, or Superior Protected Pike.

As for the Hastati/Principes, the only difference in the TT Mod textures is the addition of some men in bronze muscle cuirass. Is that so bad? There are several illustrations, both in the archaelogical record and in modern books showing Roman Infantry wearing the cuirass. However, you might be pleased to know that I have already reduced the number of men wearing the cuirass in the next version of the mod.

cheers

Paul

Paul59 wrote:

lapdog666 wrote:after playing about 70 battles against rome with tt mod , i'd say that pedites are making rome too strong. id suggest sticking to the vanila rome army lists (for rome), to the letter. that includes quantity and quality
average player can dominate anything with those units, especially if u put 4 generals in them, stick them together. basically i have to play cat and mouse against them in mp with my phalanx to win

another thing is that silver shields should have 'some armor'. i dont see what would be the difference between silver shields and ptolemaic agema phalanx

one flavor suggestion: i'd revert roman hastati principes to the vanila ones , textures

Thanks for raising the issue of the Pedites Extraordinarii, I have never been particularly happy with them, but to be honest I have had many other far more important things to worry about lately, both in the mod and in real life!

My thoughts behind their inclusion were this:

The whole ethos of the mod is that it is inspired by the Field of Glory Table Top army lists, and they are included in the Mid Republican Roman list from the Rise of Rome Book. My reading of what is known about the Pedites lead me to disgree with their classification in the lists, and I reclassified them as Superior/Elite (250/250) Heavy Impact Foot.

However, my reading also suggested to me that they were only a temporary force raised for camp guard duties, so I wondered if they would be used in a battle situation at all. For all we know, they could have been sent back to their parent legions when a battle was imminent.

So I could either delete them entirely, keep them as they are, or reclassify them as Superior Light Spear Medium Foot (as per the FOG Book). I wonder if any one else has any thoughts? Personally I am not bothered either way.

Mind you, as the Pedites are correctly costed at 87 points in the mod and are extremely limited in availability, I do wonder how you can possibly get 4 units of them in a battle! Even setting up a large custom campaign I can only purchase one unit in the initial battle, and I expect the same is true in custom battles and MP.

As far as the Silver Shields/Argyraspides are concerned, I gave you a quite detailed explanation of my thoughts a few weeks ago. Also, I actually built in several differences to some of the Pike Phalanx units in the mod, I thought it might be interesting to have these differences in contrast to the standard game. All the units in the Mod have their points values correctly costed using Richard's system, so it should make little difference to an armies overall effectiveness. If they have more effective units, they can afford fewer of them.

I am surprised that it is only the Argyraspides lack of armour that has raised comment. What about the below average Macedonian Chalkaspides, the above average Macedonian Bronze Shields, the slightly above average Spartan Pike etc?

If other people are unhappy with these differences please let me know, and I might return it all units back to Raw, Average, or Superior Protected Pike.

As for the Hastati/Principes, the only difference in the TT Mod textures is the addition of some men in bronze muscle cuirass. Is that so bad? There are several illustrations, both in the archaelogical record and in modern books showing Roman Infantry wearing the cuirass. However, you might be pleased to know that I have already reduced the number of men wearing the cuirass in the next version of the mod.

cheers

Paul

true pedites are only 2 units on very large battle, what i wanted to say is that u mix them with 6 veteran superior hastati/principes and u get 8 (vanila has only 6 superrior veterans) very strong units with 4 generals in them (CNC can be switched from cav to them,so theres that flexibility). would be good to see them as a more italic looking medium inf or something , just anything but this

about seleucids , its hard for me to imagine that argyraspides didnt have good quality linothorax or some hybrid and custom quality armor ,at least most of them. men of such status should be able to get proper armor ,especially considering how difficult it was for seleucids to have constant flow of trained greek/macedonian phalangites . if u could give me the source for protected status that would be good

i guess hastati/principes with less breastplates are good


have you considered separating hastati and principes completely, since its easily doable at least technically

maybe hastati could get protected status and principes armoured

Paul59 wrote:

lapdog666 wrote:after playing about 70 battles against rome with tt mod , i'd say that pedites are making rome too strong. id suggest sticking to the vanila rome army lists (for rome), to the letter. that includes quantity and quality
average player can dominate anything with those units, especially if u put 4 generals in them, stick them together. basically i have to play cat and mouse against them in mp with my phalanx to win

another thing is that silver shields should have 'some armor'. i dont see what would be the difference between silver shields and ptolemaic agema phalanx

one flavor suggestion: i'd revert roman hastati principes to the vanila ones , textures

Thanks for raising the issue of the Pedites Extraordinarii, I have never been particularly happy with them, but to be honest I have had many other far more important things to worry about lately, both in the mod and in real life!

My thoughts behind their inclusion were this:

The whole ethos of the mod is that it is inspired by the Field of Glory Table Top army lists, and they are included in the Mid Republican Roman list from the Rise of Rome Book. My reading of what is known about the Pedites lead me to disgree with their classification in the lists, and I reclassified them as Superior/Elite (250/250) Heavy Impact Foot.

However, my reading also suggested to me that they were only a temporary force raised for camp guard duties, so I wondered if they would be used in a battle situation at all. For all we know, they could have been sent back to their parent legions when a battle was imminent.

So I could either delete them entirely, keep them as they are, or reclassify them as Superior Light Spear Medium Foot (as per the FOG Book). I wonder if any one else has any thoughts? Personally I am not bothered either way.

Mind you, as the Pedites are correctly costed at 87 points in the mod and are extremely limited in availability, I do wonder how you can possibly get 4 units of them in a battle! Even setting up a large custom campaign I can only purchase one unit in the initial battle, and I expect the same is true in custom battles and MP.

As far as the Silver Shields/Argyraspides are concerned, I gave you a quite detailed explanation of my thoughts a few weeks ago. Also, I actually built in several differences to some of the Pike Phalanx units in the mod, I thought it might be interesting to have these differences in contrast to the standard game. All the units in the Mod have their points values correctly costed using Richard's system, so it should make little difference to an armies overall effectiveness. If they have more effective units, they can afford fewer of them.

I am surprised that it is only the Argyraspides lack of armour that has raised comment. What about the below average Macedonian Chalkaspides, the above average Macedonian Bronze Shields, the slightly above average Spartan Pike etc?

If other people are unhappy with these differences please let me know, and I might return it all units back to Raw, Average, or Superior Protected Pike.

As for the Hastati/Principes, the only difference in the TT Mod textures is the addition of some men in bronze muscle cuirass. Is that so bad? There are several illustrations, both in the archaelogical record and in modern books showing Roman Infantry wearing the cuirass. However, you might be pleased to know that I have already reduced the number of men wearing the cuirass in the next version of the mod.

cheers

Paul

true pedites are only 2 units on very large battle, what i wanted to say is that u mix them with 6 veteran superior hastati/principes and u get 8 (vanila has only 6 superrior veterans) very strong units with 4 generals in them (CNC can be switched from cav to them,so theres that flexibility). would be good to see them as a more italic looking medium inf or something , just anything but this

about seleucids , its hard for me to imagine that argyraspides didnt have good quality linothorax or some hybrid and custom quality armor ,at least most of them. men of such status should be able to get proper armor ,especially considering how difficult it was for seleucids to have constant flow of trained greek/macedonian phalangites . if u could give me the source for protected status that would be good

i guess hastati/principes with less breastplates are good


have you considered separating hastati and principes completely, since its easily doable at least technically
dont really see the point of mixing them, i might be missing something (thats vanila thing tho)

lapdog666 wrote: about seleucids , its hard for me to imagine that argyraspides didnt have good quality linothorax or some hybrid and custom quality armor ,at least most of them. men of such status should be able to get proper armor ,especially considering how difficult it was for seleucids to have constant flow of trained greek/macedonian phalangites . if u could give me the source for protected status that would be good

have you considered separating hastati and principes completely, since its easily doable at least technically
dont really see the point of mixing them, i might be missing something (thats vanila thing tho)

It would be even better if you showed me an ancient source that says they were armoured!

I know how to separate the Hastati and Principes, maybe I will get around to it.

Hello Paul, can you indicate me where I can found the calclutaing cost formula from Richard

Thank

matlegob wrote:Hello Paul, can you indicate me where I can found the calclutaing cost formula from Richard

Thank

I will send you a link, but I will probably have to explain it to you!

A little question for anybody who plays Multiplayer with the TT Mod.

Do you still get the long banner problem when playing with the Romans in MP?

I have just tried some modded banners for a new scenario using TT Mod units, and could not replicate the problem. Maybe something has changed with the game engine to stop the problem.

The new updated version of the TT Mod is now available from this new thread in the Announcements section of the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=477&t=87260

It has been updated to include the Legions Triumphant and Age of Belisarius DLCs, plus innumerable updates to the existing mod. Unfortunately it is now to big to be downloaded through the game, so there are Dropbox links and installation instructions in the new thread.

O - M - G ! Fantastic job!

The download links have been updated for the TT Mod v1.3.9:

viewtopic.php?f=477&t=87260

Sorry for any problems that people might have had with the old Dropbox links.

Just noticed the Byzantine Koursores have no bow or any other weapon in their hands, it looks a little strange.

bodkin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:34 am Just noticed the Byzantine Koursores have no bow or any other weapon in their hands, it looks a little strange.

Yes, I know. Unfortunately my 3d modelling skills are zero, so other than going back to the stock Armoured Horse Archer model there is nothing I can do about it. They do have bows in their hands when they fire though to be fair. Even without the bows in hand I prefer the model to the stock Armoured Horse Archer for Byzantines.

Hi Paul,

The Breton javelin light horse dosen't seem to have a texture, what texture file they are supposed to use?

bodkin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:27 pm Hi Paul,

The Breton javelin light horse dosen't seem to have a texture, what texture file they are supposed to use?

Thanks for spotting that one!

It looks like I have named the texture incorrectly. In the texture folder there is a texture called SR_LH_Jav_Jav_Diffuse@.dds, it should be called SR_LH_Jav_Diffuse@.dds. You can rename it if you wish. The best way to do that is copy the SR_LH_Jav_Jav_Diffuse@.dds file and paste it back into the folder. You will then have SR_LH_Jav_Jav_Diffuse@ - Copy.dds. Rename that file to SR_LH_Jav_Diffuse@.dds and leave the SR_LH_Jav_Jav_Diffuse@.dds still in the folder. That is because the model is still reading the old file for the UI picture.

I will correct it for the next update.

Hello Paul,

I also noticed that Romano-British Light Javelin Horse unit is also missing it's texture. There is also a warning in the Romano-British pick list for the Sub Roman Noble Cavalry: MISSING_IDS_UNITINFO615

Regards,
Christian

cfeicht_slith wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:12 pm Hello Paul,

I also noticed that Romano-British Light Javelin Horse unit is also missing it's texture. There is also a warning in the Romano-British pick list for the Sub Roman Noble Cavalry: MISSING_IDS_UNITINFO615

Regards,
Christian

That's because it is the exact same unit as the Light Horse in the Breton Army list. I have already had the Sub Roman Noble Cavalry missing string error pointed out to me by Richard. Both will be fixed in the next update.

Thanks for pointing them out anyway.

cheers

Paul

Paul,

Thanks for pointing that out.

Was it intended that the Galatian warbands were all Gesatae? Their warbands all appear to be using the Gesatae textures.

Regards,
Christian