Slitherine

Terminology is everything.

When I hear 'squad based' I kinda like to see a handful of S Q U A D S!!! damn it. Not battalions of troops at the squad level

The best Steel Panthers experiences I have had, were mainly in Mega Campaign Screaming Eagles. You got a few squads, they were dropped onto the map and you had to make something of an entirely unplannable mess You were not sure of reinforcements. You didn't know where the enemy was you just knew you were told to secure the ground. And every last trooper was valuable.

Now some of the other Mega Campaigns are just as great. But the opening assault in Lost Victories is a sea of troops doing a river crossing . Oh boy I love cramming scores and scores of squads into a meat grinder. It's about the same with Watchtower and marines hitting the beach. In the desert, well it is a lot of vehicles and a lot of desert and a lot of ground to cover to close in with the Tommies. But Screaming Eagles was always a handful of troops and a smaller looking map and more tension.

Sometimes ASL gets it right and sometimes not. The very FIRST scenario from Squad Leader is a half of a board. And I love playing it. Fast forward many years later and ASL gives you historical module Red Barricades and a large map and massive sums of squads slugging it out in the rubble of Stalingrad. I generally prefer ASL to stick to 1 or 2 board settings and very limited forces.

Ideally I want a game to recreate THAT level of play and more or less you get that with Battle Academy. Which is why BA has done so damned well. Well I call it doing damned well to have sponsored the creation of 3 add on purchases so far and I see nothing to prevent more other than converting over to BA 2 which is fine with me.

I just miss my hexes

There's room for Panzer Blitz/Leader scale of action with is fairly close to Panzer Corps but not quite. I'd say PanzerBlitz/Leader is closer to Panzer Corps operational scope than it is to the squad tactical scale of BA and ASL. PanzerBlitz/Leader would be only a couple of cities at most and not quite as much terrain. Likely th difference of it being a company commander at most and not a regimental commander.

I have John Tiller's Campaign series, and the only fault I have with it, is the program is not 100% cooperative with today's hardware and OS environment. It works, but it is also showing it's age.

The only trouble with literal ports of board games into electronic gaming, is the turn sequence structure generally expects a human to be dealing with an interlocked sequence of moves and counter moves by the opposition that often will greatly tax an AI design. Hey if it was so easy, we'd have had World in Flames a few years ago, and Lock and Load would not have taken so long to get to where it is currently.

I won't be breathing the day they get ASL made into a board game and not a tool known as VASL. Because computer AI just isn't that good yet and isn't any where close either.

On my iPad I've play Tank 1944, and Africa, they also have a Civil War game (if I remember it is done by (Holy Cow) one tank one infantry one artillery, not a bad game but the AI needs some work, the thing is is it's a game they try hard to state it's base on this or that battle ??? It is a hex, turn based game that they could due so much more with but it leaves reality behind. I also have played John Tiller's Campaign series, I have them all, I had them when they were started as com 64 games now that is going back a few years and it started out as Turning Point Gettysburg, as a man to man game OOOOOHHHHHH the days it took three days to play the thing, remember you needed a DISK to to play. I never played Panzer Blitz, but I had some of the first copies of Squad leader games, they just ended up with way tooooo many rules trying to make it to real and took the fun out of it. Solider was another interesting game but again in ended up with to much, I much rathered Yaquinto Close Assault for fun there you had three levels you could play.

This thread has made me realize (a) how much I miss tactical-scale games like Panzer Leader and the initial version of Squad Leader, and (b) how little I miss keeping track of the vast and growing set of rules that came to dominate these games later on. I would love to find a game that operates at a higher level of resolution than Panzer Corps, but without sacrificing PzC's emphasis on simplicity ("as few rules as possible"). I downloaded the Battle Academy demo, perhaps that will do the trick.

I think you will be smiling tonight. I hope the new moderator doesn't through me off this post? You know what happens when you get some power.

BubbaK wrote:I think you will be smiling tonight. I hope the new moderator doesn't through me off this post? You know what happens when you get some power.

I am afraid i lost the keys to my torture chamber so for the time being you get away young man but we are watching you.

Tarrak wrote:

BubbaK wrote:I think you will be smiling tonight. I hope the new moderator doesn't through me off this post? You know what happens when you get some power.

I am afraid i lost the keys to my torture chamber so for the time being you get away young man but we are watching you.

I see, you are learning quickly the art of banning, pardon, I meant moderating.
muahahahahaha

Yes but I am watching you watching me ha ha!!! You just keep makeing game that take my money and I'll continue to spend it like your Vegas! You know what I'm talkin bout boy don't make me post to hard on you I'm form Chicago I know a few Tigers OK

(Throws money at the monitor) Please remake this game!

What's wrong with Panzer Corp??

BubbaK wrote:What's wrong with Panzer Corp??

Nothing. I think most people would like a good tactical-level game though.

BubbaK wrote:What's wrong with Panzer Corp??

Nothing wrong with PC. But I started gaming on Steel Panthers so many years ago...it would be great if it could be remade. I still love playing SP also.

My question was being addressed to bailey.

BubbaK wrote:My question was being addressed to bailey.

Nothing is wrong with Panzer Corps. It just is made to model a larger scale. To me, squad/individual unit level combat is much more thrilling. Less sense of detachment, and more immersion for me. Combat Mission does this to some degree (pathfinding still sucks), but I prefer hex/turn based.

I have found the further up the scale you wander from squad level, the harder it becomes to remain historical as well as find evenly balances situations where either side can win without a lot of design trauma.

The problem with squad level seems to be the minute details of the situation are almost completely out of the reach AI capacities. As wonderful as Steel Panthers is, I can tell you from a veteran perspective, that the AI in the game is on par with any other wargame that has had to deal with the worst of my nasty opinions In a Long Campaign, if you can't bet the AI, odds are I would just not tell anyone and just conceal the embarrassment The game shines vs a human, although sadly, the game's DYO design is as bad as the procedure in the board game ASL which is also a very big mistake waiting to happen most of the time.

But what made Steel Panthers truly shine, were the Mega Campaigns which nothing of the SP Camo versions has been able to equal. Those Mega Campaigns are the equal of hundreds of hours of playings, which you can play through numerous times different ways. Try and show me any other game that can say that so easily. They are not easy to find.

Most ASL players like to kid 'what? there are other wargames?' the joke being the game is so immersive, you likely don't need anything else to play. If you gave me Steel Panthers reborn and made it able to run on my tablet as well as my laptop, I likely would uninstall all my other games. I wouldn't need them any more.

Very sorry for the necro.

I found this thread while actually searching the net for a game like Steel Panthers, I'd just like to add my interest for a remake, it was an awesome game, I don't know how many hours I put into it, I'd buy it no matter what the cost, and DLC whoring would be most welcome
I even played Typhoon of Steel and Panzer Strike back on the C64, and they I think were the predecessors of Steel Panthers.

A remake, or at least a successor, by Grigsby et al is indeed on the way.

I would definately buy a new SP 1 if it closely resembled the original. I don't like 3D much either. It seems every time 3D gets put it the game suffers in size, scope & detail. The emphasis always seems to shift a bit too far to graphics and techni-color puke from strategy.

SP 1 was a sweet spot for me in campaign mode. Way back then a buddy of mine & I put together a set of paper rules to play a campaign ala those old book-box games with cardboard chit counters, but would then play the battle out on SP 1 instead of rolling dice for outcomes. We added rules to use the game editor to increase things like armor and gun size so we could "develop" our own flavors and shape the war as wished.

Man, that was great fun, but alas... I'm an adult now.

But hey, if you build it I'll buy it!

Just my $49.99

Where did you get news about upcoming remake?

OK, here are three things I loved to do in SP.
1) Have German engineers lay mines then retreat a hex and ambush
2) Set up mine field, then unleash nebelwerfers (great sound effects) when massed Russian infantry gets bogged down
3) Set up two ambushing enfilading MG42 in a field, then when Russian infantry well in range, lob mortar rounds behind them, trapping Russian that breaks or is destroyed

Hey buddy, sorry for the late reply. Here are a few quotes from the staff at MG forums -

The original 'announcement' -
http://www.wargamer.com/Article/10196

Joseph M -
"That all said, I'd not relate it directly to Steel Panthers, although it is a great game in its own right. Regarding Steel Panthers, a new version is something we do want to create, so all I can say is watch this space."

Erik Rutins -
"Steel Tigers is what you have all been waiting for, no more details for now, but when we can share we will."
"Just to put to rest one rumor - Steel Tigers is _not_ going to be "watered down."
"Hi guys, the visuals will be very high quality. It will not look like Battle Academy, which had its own art style, it will look like a much better Steel Panthers. We really can't say much more at this point, despite all the interest, but I'm glad to see that you are all interested!"
"The way to look at this is that it's a full court, full company press. We are giving this our all and giving Gary and Joel every bit of support we can to make this as great as we possibly can. IMHO that's great news for all SP fans."


PipFromSlitherine -
"You are confusing engines with games. Even with BA the only thing stopping a game from being as hardcore as SP++++ is the designer. STUB and Archon are designed to put all the power in the hands of the designer. ST is going to lead on PC, no compromises."
"The new engine is a huge improvement on the current released versions, with large parts being entirely rebuilt. ST will bear very little resemblance to BA et al."