Slitherine

if i recollect correctly, the syrian states are rather weak

Hmm . . . I am struggling a bit here, chaps - I haven't played much Swords and Scimitars but after a brief look at the army lists there doesn't seem to be too many obvious naff armies. The Seljuk Turks have been mentioned but they have 4 armies, so which is the weakest? The Syrian states have 3 armies and I suppose the earliest one is the weakest but they seem quite a decent army to me. Can anybody help here? Ideally I would like to have 4 armies in the qualifying event but if we can only identify 2 then that's OK.

I have been right through the "Swords and Scimitars" book now and two armies stand out as being particularly weak - and certainly much weaker than any of the Cuman, Seljuk Turk or Syrian state armies. They are the Trebizond and Epirot Byzantine armies. Any thoughts?

Fahtimids don't have much going for them.

Deeter

deeter wrote:Fahtimids don't have much going for them.

Deeter

Thanks deeter. They have some superior cavalry (12 BG's) and superior MF (3 units) though so they are better off than Trebizond and Epirot, at least.

If there are no other contributions this week then the Swords and Scimitars qualifying section will be a straight play-off between these two Byzantine armies.

stockwellpete wrote:I have been right through the "Swords and Scimitars" book now and two armies stand out as being particularly weak - and certainly much weaker than any of the Cuman, Seljuk Turk or Syrian state armies. They are the Trebizond and Epirot Byzantine armies. Any thoughts?

The Cumans are pretty much a one trick horse archer army. They don't even get infantry as good as the Skythians in IF and get a maximum of 3 lancers if they take Alan allies. I'd take either of these Byzantine armies over the Cumans. Both of the Byzantine armies get lots of poor LF to bulk them out so they're likely to have a substantial numerical advantage in addition to enough lance armed cavalry and knights to chase the Cumans. The Trebizond list is weaker than the Epirote but I thnk both are stronger than the Cumans that really only come in one flavor with lots of relatively expensive horse archers.

Chris

Khwarazmian are another army that is pretty much restricted to horse archers without any real flexibility so I'd add them in with the Cumans as a contender. One elephant and a few Kurdish lancers isn't goingt o fend off many knights and it's another army without much in the way of cheap troops to bulk up its numbers. I ran the Sassanids in the LOeG LT last season and even with more elephants, better foot, and lance armed cataphracts, they weren't a killer army. The Khwarizmians look wimpy compared to the Sassanids and they have to fight knights which the Sassanids didn't.

Chris

OK Chris, that is very helpful, thanks.

So the four entrants will be . . .

Trebizond Byzantine
Epirot Byzantine
Cuman
Khwarazmian

I will start this qualifying event in the NAFF thread as soon as Immortal Fire is finished.

batesmotel wrote:Khwarazmian are another army that is pretty much restricted to horse archers without any real flexibility so I'd add them in with the Cumans as a contender. One elephant and a few Kurdish lancers isn't goingt o fend off many knights and it's another army without much in the way of cheap troops to bulk up its numbers. I ran the Sassanids in the LOeG LT last season and even with more elephants, better foot, and lance armed cataphracts, they weren't a killer army. The Khwarizmians look wimpy compared to the Sassanids and they have to fight knights which the Sassanids didn't.

Chris

Yes Archie ran them in the LOEG last season, and they were underwhelming.

The Swords and Scimitars qualifying tournament is well under way now so that just leaves "Legions Triumphant" and "Eternal Empire". To speed things along a bit perhaps we can put our heads together and come up with the 4 weakest armies in these two books while the other section is being completed?

I don't have much idea about "Legions Triumphant" so your help would be greatly appreciated. Regarding "Eternal Empire" I would provisionally suggest . . . Albanian (the middle army), Byzantine Morea, Byzantine Epiros and Later Bulgarian.

All suggestions are welcome.

Picts are a contender for LT. Even with Pantherboy running them they are almost beatable . Unprotected MF offensive spearmen aren't good for much beyond target practice and aren't even really cheap!

Chris

i remember that in a barbarian armies tournament, the western huns (uldin) fared rather bad

I have just been looking at the Legions Triumphant list - the Caledonians, Early Germans and Tencteri all look very weak.

batesmotel wrote:Picts are a contender for LT. Even with Pantherboy running them they are almost beatable . Unprotected MF offensive spearmen aren't good for much beyond target practice and aren't even really cheap!

Chris

Right, but yu can take like 40+ of them , plus impact foot , plus saxon ally with cheap heavy impact foot..... Big army that is pretty good in rough terrian or can swamp out an opponent in open w cannon fodder..

Nominations so far - I want four nations for each qualifying event

Legions Triumphant

Picts
Caledonians
Early Germans
Tencteri
Western Huns (Uldin)


Eternal Empire

Albanian (the middle army)
Byzantine Morea
Byzantine Epiros
Later Bulgarian

Any more?

The Swords and Scimitars qualifying final is well underway now. The next qualifying section is Legions Triumphant, which will be starting shortly.

The short-list includes the four armies below. I have decided that the Western Huns (Uldin) are much stronger than these four so they have been omitted (they can actually pick an entire army of "superior" units and have strong Sciri allies). So unless anyone posts anything to the contrary in the next 48 hours, these will be the entrants for LT.

Picts
Caledonians
Early Germans
Tencteri

pete
i would like to play the tencteri if possible (wonder why the designers thought they were different from early germans )

stockwellpete wrote:The Swords and Scimitars qualifying final is well underway now. The next qualifying section is Legions Triumphant, which will be starting shortly.

The short-list includes the four armies below. I have decided that the Western Huns (Uldin) are much stronger than these four so they have been omitted (they can actually pick an entire army of "superior" units and have strong Sciri allies). So unless anyone posts anything to the contrary in the next 48 hours, these will be the entrants for LT.

Picts
Caledonians
Early Germans
Tencteri

Which Early Germans? , the latest patch has split the list into two: late and early Early Germans:)

early late early Germans

TheGrayMouser wrote:

stockwellpete wrote:The Swords and Scimitars qualifying final is well underway now. The next qualifying section is Legions Triumphant, which will be starting shortly.

The short-list includes the four armies below. I have decided that the Western Huns (Uldin) are much stronger than these four so they have been omitted (they can actually pick an entire army of "superior" units and have strong Sciri allies). So unless anyone posts anything to the contrary in the next 48 hours, these will be the entrants for LT.

Picts
Caledonians
Early Germans
Tencteri

Which Early Germans? , the latest patch has split the list into two: late and early Early Germans:)

Oh gawd! I will make a pronouncement shortly.