Slitherine

2b: Scythian (kronenblatt, 1660 FP) versus Lydian (deeter, 1600 FP), with middle-eastern agricultural terrain. 40x32.

deeter defeated kronenblatt 40-10

Lydia escorted the ever-more-numerous Skyithians off its territory for the third time. If there was an option to attack the Skythian homelands, I would just to stop these annoying raids.

Deeter

deeter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:14 pm If there was an option to attack the Skythian homelands, I would just to stop these annoying raids.

Would that be of interest: to have an additional attack option to attack tribal powers' homelands? What would the reward be for winning: the tribal power never to be able to raid that major power again?

Does it matter? It's not like the Skythians can ever beat Lydia anyway ;)

Probably not as these Skythian raids have provided most of my victories so far. Do we gain anything for winning beyond not being raided?

Deeter

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:18 pm

deeter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:14 pm If there was an option to attack the Skythian homelands, I would just to stop these annoying raids.

Would that be of interest: to have an additional attack option to attack tribal powers' homelands? What would the reward be for winning: the tribal power never to be able to raid that major power again?

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:22 pm Does it matter? It's not like the Skythians can ever beat Lydia anyway

It seems to, because it would stop the raids permanently. I'll introduce that for the next round as a new type of attack; punitive expedition, alongside revolt and raid. Optional of course, just like them.

• Attack declarations: All players announce, one by one in the order as specified below, which attack or two attacks (one conquest by his major power always required plus optionally either one raid by a tribal power, one revolt by a minor power, or one punitive expedition by his major power) that they intend to make.

• A player is every round required (if possible) to declare one conquest attack of major power and is allowed (but does not have) to declare either one raid, one revolt, or one punitive expedition attack.

Punitive expedition

• The punitive expedition attack involves the player's major power (the "attacker") making an attack upon the homelands of a tribal power (the "defender").

• The major power must control at least one province connected to the tribal power's homelands and must also control at least one province (the same or another) not looted by that tribal power in question.

• All battles (whether conquests or raids) take the form of a Custom Battle as Open Battle with:
  • Map type being Pot Luck, unless a punitive expedition in which case Map Typ is steppe if Scythian defender and desert if Arab or Libyan defender.
  • Force size and Map size being Large (1660 FP for attacker, 1600 FP for defender) and Wide (40 width) if punitive expedition attack.

• The victor (if any) of the battle gains 1 victory point.

• If the attacking major power is the victor of the battle:
  • the losing tribal power is prohibited from raid attacking that major power for the remainder of the tournament and
  • the player of that major power is allowed to use the losing tribal power as the main army (and then always with his own major power as ally) in all the battles it is fighting for the remainder of the tournament.

• If the defending tribal power is the victor of the battle, the player that was controlling it will choose one of the major power's provinces to be considered "looted" by that tribal power for the remainder of the tournament.

2a: Assyrian (kronenblatt, 1240 FP) versus Phoenician (TomoeGozen, 1200 FP). 32x32.

=> kronenblatt defeats TomoeGozen 60-59. Puh...! The closest victory I ever had.

1b: Arab (SnuggleBunnies, 1240 FP) versus Babylonian (TomoeGozen, 1200 FP). 32x32.

SnuggleBunnies (Arab) defeats TomoeGozen (Babylonian) 72-32

GG

1a: Egyptian (SnuggleBunnies, 1240 FP) versus Hebrew (deeter, 1200 FP), with Egyptians using Arab with Egyptian allies army. 32x32.

SnuggleBunnies (Arab) defeats deeter (Hebrew) 60-34

GG

5: Babylonian (TomoeGozen, 1600 FP) versus Median (rbodleyscott, 1600 FP). 40x32.

TomoeGozen defeats rbodleyscott 68-45.

These two battles are still not reported, and the last date to conclude them is today, October 27:

3a: Lydian (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Cypriote (rbodleyscott, 1200 FP). 32x32.
4: Median (rbodleyscott, 1240 FP) versus Elamite (SnuggleBunnies, 1200 FP). 32x32.

Could you please advise on the status.

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:10 pm These two battles are still not reported, and the last date to conclude them is today, October 27:

3a: Lydian (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Cypriote (rbodleyscott, 1200 FP). 32x32.
4: Median (rbodleyscott, 1240 FP) versus Elamite (SnuggleBunnies, 1200 FP). 32x32.

Could you please advise on the status.

I keep not quite dying, but Richard is guaranteed to win our match

3a: Lydian (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Cypriote (rbodleyscott, 1200 FP). 32x32.

Despite my best efforts against corner camping, the result after 24 turns: RBS 59 deeter 46.

I know this will be counted as a draw. No matter, as I will take it next turn, but once again the game awarded me a victory. This is not the first time this has happened, so I'm wondering what purpose the victory screen serves if it doesn't matter? This rather encourages campers, don't you think?

Deeter

deeter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:22 pm 3a: Lydian (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Cypriote (rbodleyscott, 1200 FP). 32x32.

Despite my best efforts against corner camping, the result after 24 turns: RBS 59 deeter 46.

I know this will be counted as a draw. No matter, as I will take it next turn, but once again the game awarded me a victory. This is not the first time this has happened, so I'm wondering what purpose the victory screen serves if it doesn't matter? This rather encourages campers, don't you think?

Deeter

Engine hard code, it shows a victory/loss unless the score is exactly even, even though ofc all tournament scoring goes off of 25% up or over 60%

Not be argumentative, and I'm sure most people here are more knowledgeable than I, but the notice seems pretty explicit that one side retires and the other holds the ground. This wouldn't matter in a one-off such as the DL. In a campaign though, it has profound implications and seems relevant. The exact wording is: Nightfall has saved the enemy from utter defeat. However, if they withdraw during the night, you will at least have the honour of holding the field of battle.

I'm okay with a draw, but I do think corner camping should be discouraged and this would help.

Deeter

It wasn't intended to be a corner camp, (and it wasn't strictly speaking a corner), the intention was to take the terrain and then attack from the far side of it. However, I failed miserably in getting all my troops safely to the terrain, and my attempts to attack from the other side of the terrain also ended in disaster, so my surviving troops decided to stay in the terrain, rather than hand you victory on a plate. (As I felt was my duty when playing on behalf of a non-player nation). You nearly won anyway.

Anyway, all of that is beside the point, the campaign has rules about what constitutes a victory that are not the same as the standard rules for custom battles used by the game. There is no way that the game can know that, so its end battle messages are irrelevant.

deeter wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:58 pm ... corner camping should be discouraged and this would help...

I agree that corner camping should be discouraged as a whole. However, I'm not sure this is the way to do it, since awkward situations may occur, awarding the camper the victory. For example, let's say that the camper succeeds in routing one of your light units, bringing the score to 1%-0% in his favour. And that's all, nothing more happens throughout the game. Then the camper would be awarded the victory through a 1%-0% result, instead of a draw.

We have, in this tournament thread and other ones, discussed ways to incentivise attacks. One way is to award more benefits and rewards for winning, but mere scoring points don't seem to be doing the trick. Other ways?

I'm content to live by the rules of the campaign. I'm just curious about how that result is applied in custom games?

There seems to be a lot of posts regarding camping and possible ways to discourage the practice. One suggestion that makes sense is to put victory points on the map, but that would involve some programing I think.

Not to hijack this thread, but there are several other great battle options already in the game that are never used such as advance and rear guard that have flags. Same for flank attacks, baggage raids and so on. I've been thinking of ways to put these options into a campaign, but that's a topic for another thread. Thank you all for your patience.

Deeter

PS: "It wasn't intended to be a corner camp, (and it wasn't strictly speaking a corner), the intention was to take the terrain and then attack from the far side of it." Good point. I am reminded of Gen. Smith's remark at Chosen Reservoir, Korea: "Retreat hell. I'm just attacking in another direction." : )

4: Median (rbodleyscott, 1240 FP) versus Elamite (SnuggleBunnies, 1200 FP). 32x32.

Medes won 60-35.

I don't think Elamites are ever going to be a top army! Well fought, Jack.

1a: Egyptian (SnuggleBunnies, 1240 FP) versus Hebrew (deeter, 1200 FP), with Egyptians using Arab with Egyptian allies army. 32x32.
=> SnuggleBunnies defeats deeter 60-34.
1b: Arab (SnuggleBunnies, 1240 FP) versus Babylonian (TomoeGozen, 1200 FP). 32x32.
=> SnuggleBunnies defeats TomoeGozen 72-32.
2a: Assyrian (kronenblatt, 1240 FP) versus Phoenician (TomoeGozen, 1200 FP). 32x32.
=> kronenblatt defeats TomoeGozen 60-59.
2b: Scythian (kronenblatt, 1660 FP) versus Lydian (deeter, 1600 FP), with middle-eastern agricultural terrain. 40x32.
=> deeter defeats kronenblatt 40-10.
3a: Lydian (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Cypriote (rbodleyscott, 1200 FP). 32x32.
=> deeter draws with rbodleyscott 59-46.
3b: Arab (deeter, 1240 FP) versus Assyrian (kronenblatt, 1200 FP). 32x32.
=> kronenblatt defeats deeter 61-47.
4: Median (rbodleyscott, 1240 FP) versus Elamite (SnuggleBunnies, 1200 FP). 32x32.
=> rbodleyscott defeats SnuggleBunnies 60-35.
5: Babylonian (TomoeGozen, 1600 FP) versus Median (rbodleyscott, 1600 FP). 40x32.
=> TomoeGozen defeats rbodleyscott 68-45.

Victory points (with major power's highest inflicted casualties this round)

1. SnuggleBunnies (Egyptian): 8 (60)
2. rbodleyscott (Median): 4 (60)
3. kronenblatt (Assyrian): 4 (61)
4. deeter (Lydian): 3 (59)
5. TomoeGozen (Babylonian): 1 (68)