Slitherine

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:21 am Paul, playing with early Roman units, they ALL sport Legio III banners. Wouldn't it be better to create a more generic Roman banner for them?

If you have the stamina to read through my post from 13th March in this thread, you will see that the Roman banners have already been changed. I have chosen a more generic banner this time, and the later Romans have a separate banner.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 7:55 pm

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:21 am Paul, playing with early Roman units, they ALL sport Legio III banners. Wouldn't it be better to create a more generic Roman banner for them?

If you have the stamina to read through my post from 13th March in this thread, you will see that the Roman banners have already been changed. I have chosen a more generic banner this time, and the later Romans have a separate banner.

Ah, missed that one, sorry. Thank you!

Hello, Paul!

Any news about your project?

Waiting patiently since March, but it's starting to hurt a bit ...

Best regards!

Adebar wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:13 pm Hello, Paul!

Any news about your project?

Waiting patiently since March, but it's starting to hurt a bit ... :mrgreen:

Best regards!

Hi Adebar,

I am still testing and making improvements, but progress is slow, as I have a lot of other commitments. I would estimate that it will take another three months at the current rate of progress, but sooner if I can speed up!


cheers


Paul

Nice, thank you!

Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work, Paul!

Heya Paul. 3 months have passed. Update please.

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:34 pm Heya Paul. 3 months have passed. Update please. :D

The end is in sight, hopefully it will be released before Christmas.

Super duper great! Thank you for the countless hours of work you must be putting into it. Looking forward to trying it out.

Paul,

Thanks for your continued support.

Paul, I am having an issue with how your units are portrayed vs what capabilities they actually have/how protected they are.

Can you for example remove a sword from cavalry units that have only javelins and light spear so that the model only shows a javelin/light spear? *Same issue is found in the vanilla game though.

Why not change Macedonian cavalry unit which is stated to be unprotected and whose model shows a bronze curaisse armor with just the plain textile tunic? That way model look and model stats would be in line with each other which currently is not the case in the latest mod version.

These are just two such cases.

Stuff like this throws me off a bit with otherwise beautifully looking models and superb army lists details. Am I too pedantic by such request?

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:51 pm Can you for example remove a sword from cavalry units that have only javelins and light spear so that the model only shows a javelin/light spear? *Same issue is found in the vanilla game though.

I could change it, but it would be a huge amount of work, basically creating a new alpha layer for each affected texture so that the sword is invisible. As this involves several dozens of units it would not be a quick task, and would it be worth it? Probably not in my view, as this issue originates in the vanilla models, and we have all lived with it for years.

Note that removing the sword would result in the model waving an empty fist in the air, some players might object to that. Also, what happens if we decide to change a units capabilities, as sometimes happens, and we give a unit swordsmen capability? The sword would have to be added back in!

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:51 pm Why not change Macedonian cavalry unit which is stated to be unprotected and whose model shows a bronze curaisse armor with just the plain textile tunic? That way model look and model stats would be in line with each other which currently is not the case in the latest mod version.

I don't know what Macedonian cavalry unit you are talking about? As far as I can see, no unprotected Macedonian cavalry model has a bronze cuirass.

As a general rule, I do try to make the units appearance match the armour rating, although this is sometimes very difficult due to armour rating, texture limitations and the available armour/shields.

Is it likely to be any changes to Pyrrhus 280-275 BC, Samnite 355-272 BC or Roman 280-220 BC? Unit or ally wise?

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:44 pm Is it likely to be any changes to Pyrrhus 280-275 BC, Samnite 355-272 BC or Roman 280-220 BC? Unit or ally wise?

No, only some cosmetic changes; new shields for the Pyrrhic Pikemen and new Roman banners.

EDIT: I forgot that the Romans and Pyrrhic armies now have Apulian allies.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:07 pm

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:44 pm Is it likely to be any changes to Pyrrhus 280-275 BC, Samnite 355-272 BC or Roman 280-220 BC? Unit or ally wise?

No, only some cosmetic changes; new shields for the Pyrrhic Pikemen and new Roman banners.

EDIT: I forgot that the Romans and Pyrrhic armies now have Apulian allies.

OK, many thanks, Paul! Then I know.

Paul, thank you for your answer.

I understand -> too much work, no changes when it comes to depicted weapons. Wonder why it was done so in the vanilla in the first place.

Sorry about the "unprotected" Greek cavalry. It actually states it has some armour, my bad.

- Agema cavalry, Companion cavalry, Tessalian armoured cavalry are stated as armoured but they are shown as having linotorax. At the same time Greek cavalry unit is stated as having some armour while its model has a cuirass/breast plate. Why?
- There is no differentiation between units that have protected status - same status for these units for either having linothorax+shield or without any body protection+shield -> shouldn't these be differentiated? Shouldn't the linothorax count?

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:29 pm Paul, thank you for your answer.

I understand -> too much work, no changes when it comes to depicted weapons. Wonder why it was done so in the vanilla in the first place.

I don't know, but I assume no one came up with the idea that there should be a visual clue to indicate Swordsmen capability.

Mind you, Swordsmen capability doesn't mean that all men armed with a sword should have Swordsmen capability. On the other hand, some units have Swordsmen capability but few of their men would have been armed with a sword in real life. It's basically an advanced close combat capability (that just happens to be called Swordsmen), some troop types deserve it due to their historical performance, and others don't, whether the men were armed with actual swords or not.

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:29 pm - Agema cavalry, Companion cavalry, Tessalian armoured cavalry are stated as armoured but they are shown as having linotorax. At the same time Greek cavalry unit is stated as having some armour while its model has a cuirass/breast plate. Why?

Do we know for certain that Linothorax was worse than a bronze plate cuirass?

For the early Greek cavalry, they were originally Armoured, but I later downgraded them to Some Armour. I didn't think to create a mixture of armoured and unarmoured men on one texture sheet, and can't be bothered to change it now. Sorry.

Hister_MatrixForum wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:29 pm - There is no differentiation between units that have protected status - same status for these units for either having linothorax+shield or without any body protection+shield -> shouldn't these be differentiated? Shouldn't the linothorax count?

Yes, and a lot of it exists in vanilla as well. For instance, the later hoplites have linothorax and big shields, but are rated as only Protected, exactly the same as Warbands who only have a big shield.

The devs never intended that the units appearance should give an EXACT indication of it's capabilities. The TT Mod was designed on the same principles, and no one has mentioned it as being an issue until now. If you want me to fix all of the inconsistencies you will probably have to wait another 10 years for the mod to be finished, although I will probably be dead or go blind before that happens!

Well, I knew swordsmen capability meant short reach melee weapons of all types, not just swords.

I don't know whether linothorax was worse than a bronze plate cuirass or vice versa. That isn't determined yet, is it? But you answered already why visually the Greek cavalry unit doesn't match with the stated protection.

I understand your points and thank you for clearing this out for me. I meant that the game was designed so that just by looking at the unit you should be able to discern its protection and capabilities without having to resort to clicking on it. Visual clues for the unit models are already there in the game, am baffled why the devs didn't go all the way through with visually presenting what the unit is meant to wear for protection and what types of weapons it is meant to use. Why go half baked with certain units while others are fully represented visually? But ok, it was not designed that way. Iam surpised this never cropped up before.

No, I don't want you to meet your creator or go blind. I was a modder back in the Rome Total War era (Paeninsula Italica), I know what modding burnout entails...

The new version is out now:

https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113880