Slitherine

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:03 am**

German 4 to Allied 1 for now...

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:12 am**

Brummbar44 wrote:
GottaLove88s wrote:KingT, I'd urge you not to re-write history on why the three Axis players left, one week after I foolishly persuaded you and Mac to come back after resigning.
For clarity, this is simply not true. Jon, you were the reason we were going to leave in the first place!

You did no 'persuading' in fact, you clung to your position even well after any debate was over (the debate just kept going in your own mind!) and prolonged the problem. You, at that point insisted either KingT or I move over to the Axis command...you were even pushing for a restart of the whole thing! It was then that I voluntarily opted to be a GM (again, no persuading other than to say I could GM alone and you would join the Axis...wish now that I took you up on that) and it was I who convinced KingT to stay on as the Allied command.

Your perception of the facts is one of the prime reasons I don't wish to participate as a 'co' GM.

Mac & KT, thanks for your comments guys...

Ok, apologies everyone that I have to do this way, which I've tried hard to avoid, but I'm going to do it factually and by the book...

Mac, you first resigned on the Allied private thread, with a new post you entitled, "Brummbar ist kaput", November 23rd, 22.57h:

Brummbar44 wrote:Hi Guys,

Sorry, it just doesn't seem that I can carry on as the Allied commander. Discretion being the better part of valour I'll just say that this is a personal decision.

KingT will take over as the new Commander.

Give'em hell lads!

Good luck and have fun!

You repeated your resignation on the main GJS'44 thread, November 23rd, 22.59h:

GottaLove88s wrote:
Brummbar44 wrote:Just a quick note everyone I'm stepping down from the game. Good luck and have fun. Hope to perhaps play in a future version.
Thanks Brummbar, You have been (are!) a great commander and an incredible GM. Please sleep on your decision. Let's chat tomorrow, ok...

You reinforced this in an email to me, during a lengthy ping pong overnight conversation where I was attempting to persuade you to stay, in addition to my very public request on the GJS'44 thread, to ask you to sleep on it.

Brummbar44 wrote:From: xxx>
Subject: Re: Goodnight Mac Sleep on it...
Date: 24 November 2012 05:51:03 GMT+08:00
To: xxx>

Very frustrating Jon!

At the end of the day, I think this is all beyond repair...I’m going to let the Allies know that I am done. I explain better below but thought I would try to be concise here and let you know without having to read a long email.

If you are interested, see my replies below (in green)...

Good night and good luck.
Mac

Towards the end of our overnight conversations, around 8.33am my time, you wrote this:

Brummbar44 wrote:From: xxx>
Subject: Re: Goodnight MalcolmŠ Sleep on it...
Date: 24 November 2012 08:33:19 GMT+08:00
To: xxx>

Thanks Jon,

Your email below goes a long way in my book...I didn’t see the possibility of the KingT/Brummbar swap...I can see how that could get confused.

So....

Here is my solution...and I think it would work best for all involved.

We truly Co-Gm this thing. I’ll stand aside as a player and KingT still takes over the Allies (I’ve left him with a great plan by the way!). You and I can design scenario maps etc... Together (I really do want to learn that perhaps more than playing). This way too you and I can playtest the maps!

You keep on designing the maps and overall coordination (you’ve done a fab job of it so far, certainly no complaints there).

I’ll continue on with upkeep on the Strat map (I had intended to no matter the outcome) and be the ‘rules’ watchdog.

Together you and I can decide if a rule needs updating/clarification (players can still protest etc...).

What do you think?

Uh-oh...just saw some emails coming in from you and KingT!

Let me know...

And thanks again for everything...I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to resolve our misunderstanding especially given the nature of your profession and the demands there on you!!

Cheers,
Mac

You then resigned again November 28th, 2.32am my time, and again I attempted to persuade you to stay. I'm trying to keep this civil, so I'm not going to include our full email threads, unless you ask me to.

You then issued a "this thread 'aint big enough for the two of us", December 3rd, 22.41h:

Brummbar44 wrote:Jon, you are being an ass...plain and simple. You obviously have not only an issue with KingT but seem to favour the Axis.
Not very becoming of an impartial GM imo.

I would suggest that you stand down as GM (perhaps take up a spot on the Axis) or I can take a hike and you can run this however you like.

Jon, Let me know what you decide.

You converted this to a formal resignation, December 3rd, 22.53h.

GottaLove88s wrote:
Brummbar44 wrote:Ok, I'm done.

Everyone else...I tried. Sorry it turned out this way...for the record, I didn't even get to play a game.
You were (are) an awesome GM Mac. Thank you.

I really enjoyed playing Vimont and Villers-Bocage with you. It was great fun and I learned a lot.

As I tried to keep privately, please sleep on it overnight.

GJS'44 should just be about everone playing the game, and all of us having fun. You will be welcome back anytime... Including tomorrow!

This became a further conversation where the tone looks like we became increasingly irritated with one another. Ultimately, I accepted your resignation and your departure from the game.

I enjoyed playing with you Mac. And your contributions have been invaluable. I accepted your resignation with regret, but it is the right thing for both of us to do.

You also wrote me on December 3rd, complaining about players that have left the campaign attempting to disrupt the game for the rest of us. You'll recall that I sent you a strong defence for why that player might have felt provoked. Again, I am not including the full thread, but am happy to do so, if you require it.

Brummbar44 wrote:From: xxx>
Subject: xxx is turning into a troll
Date: 3 December 2012 23:12:29 GMT+08:00
To: xxx>

Hey Jon,

I noticed xxx, even though he has quit the tournament, is trying to call
me out on the forums. Not cool. I've just chosen to ignore him but I have
to say, I'm really glad he's not playing...our latest crises would've blown
up I think had he stayed

Cheers,
Mac

Mac, thank you for everything. I apologise for the way that things have gone. I really think you made a wonderfully positive contribution to GJS'44. I am sad that you had to leave, but it is the correct thing to do. Please let us continue on and play the game.

If you wish to respond to this post, please do so to my private email. Out of courtesy, I will read any first reply from you, but I will not respond to it. For us, this is over.

I am posting here to close the argument. It is not good for BA or GJS'44 to have good and dedicated gamers air dirty laundry in public. Consequently, I will be happy to delete this post once you confirm that you have read it and you similarly delete your post of December 4th 16.35h without a new replacement.

Thank you. Good luck ok.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:24 am**

Jon, Just wanted to know if you have received my emails...I have sent a couple with some important stuff...please give me a howler when your free...thanks
Mike

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:50 am**

kingt wrote:However you may want to twist and turn reality in your favor the fact is that your GM-ing has lead to all this talk and the departure of players. There are plenty of mistakes in your quotes above and I only skimmed through it, after all you did need to edit the post quite a few times. Maybe when you'll have a final version I'll take another look.

I see you took me out of the Allied forum as well, you must really feel threatened by my opinions You really don't have the authority of doing that actually, not to mention there wouldn't be a point to do it either. But hey, you apparently really need this.

KingT,

Thank you for your positive contributions to the campaign. I say this without sarcasm because there are many of them, as I outlined in my balanced post of viewtopic.php?f=87&t=38844&start=720#p370966

As you will recall, you resigned from the GJS'44 campaign, November 24th 1.33am:

kingt wrote:
Brummbar44 wrote:Just a quick note everyone I'm stepping down from the game. Good luck and have fun. Hope to perhaps play in a future version.
I'll follow our General and I'll step down as well.

It was a real pleasure to fight in GJS, congrats to everyone in it and hopefully we'll do this again in the future.

Once I had persuaded Mac to come back after resigning, or he miraculously changed his mind, whichever version of events one chooses to believe, I then emailed you as below.

GottaLove88s wrote:From: xxx>
Subject: Please reconsider...
Date: 24 November 2012 15:40:35 GMT+08:00
To: "kingt.battle@gmail.com" <kingt.battle@gmail.com>

Hey KT,

Thanks for your email and resignation.

Sorry I'm only replying now. Am just grabbing a coffee for the missus and going back to bed.

I'd very much like you to reconsider. I want you to stay.

Mac has generously offered to become a full-time GM. Frankly, the two of us together will be a lot better at this than I was alone.

You probably noticed. I got a bit overwhelmed. We do need a much better way to manage conflict in GJS'44. Tempers flared from the 3 of us. Emotions became involved. Some things were said which were sharp and unhelpful. For my part, I apologise.

I understand if you decide that you still prefer to leave. However, I would prefer it if you stayed. You bring a lot to the campaign. As I've consistently said, I cherish your passion and knowledge. You bring a higher level of skill to the game.

Where I had problems, was in trying to explain things multiple times over, when other stuff was on my plate. I probably didn't listen well enough. But I believe, Mac and me together, will be far stronger at this, making a better and smoother campaign for everyone.

Let me know what you think? No pressure, if your mind is made up. But it would be awesome to have you stay with us. Somebody's got to lead those isolated paras to victory... Otherwise poor Jcb is going to be left picking up the pieces of what should have been an incredibly smart strategy... And I'm sure you have more to come, that are even smarter!

Sorry again. Stay in. Think about it ok...

You must not have received this email because you did not reply. Consequently, I am accepting your resignation as tendered.

As I explained in my politely worded response, I have unsubscribed you from the Allied private thread, so that everyone can continue on in calm, to just play the game.

KT, I can only assume that English cannot be your first language, and in your own language fiery temperament and provocation is normal. Your post of December 4th 12.45h contravenes rule 10.4 (if necessary, this thread is littered with other examples that I will cite, if you require me to do so), which as GM I am officially perceiving and issuing your first warning.

Let's face it, in addition to being phrased in a manner that was deliberately unpleasant, it is clear that there are apparently many reasons why you have been unhappy with all aspects of my campaign; you cited my "rules, my decisions, my maps" as problems just for starters. You blame me, and only me, for the reason that six players have left. KT, I can publish anonymised emails from several of those players which explains why they have left, if you ask me to, but you really wouldn't enjoy reading the contents.

Finally you claim that I am tipping the balance of the campaign. This is hilarious, because if you're claiming that I'm some kind of dictator GM, and I'm trying to swing the results in favour of the Axis, then clearly I'm not doing it very effectively... In two game days, the Axis have yet to win a single game to force an Allied retreat. If I wanted to be biased, I'd have done it better than that. Face facts, I'm not biased, but I will try to construct and maintain a campaign that is fair and fun for all sides.

KT, you're a great player and a fabulous strategist. Call it the randomness of chemisty, perhaps, but it is clear that you are not happy here, and you are now disrupting play for others. Thank you for your resignation. I have unsubscribed you, as I explained to you that I would.

Please let everyone continue in peace. I strongly recommend that you create your own campaign, where I am confident that you will do a much better job than I could hope to achieve. This will be better for your own campaigners, better for GJS'44, and the creation of dual maps will be fabulously beneficial for the BA community at large.

For me, this issue is over. I'm grateful to you for the games that you played and for your positive contributions. Please PM me if you wish to respond. Out of courtesy, I will read it, but I will not reply. These sorts of posts, between us, are not good for BA or for GJS'44. If you would like me to, I will happily remove this one, if you similarly remove your three posts of December 4th, 12.09h, 12.45h and 20.25h, without new replacements.

Take care KT. I genuinely look forward to seeing your own campaign succeed. Good luck mate!

kingt wrote:
GottaLove88s wrote:but KT needs to learn that it is just a game, and sometimes just to play it.
Any game is played by the rules, and you as a GM should know better. If the rules aren't yet set in stone and clear for everyone, you can't react as you did since yesterday to a simple question. Provide the answer and move on without assuming things.

So then let me tell you what you need to learn since we're doing this...

You need to learn to be a non-biased GM. You're not anyone's father to try to make it fun for everyone. Everyone is having fun and nobody has left because they've been on a two-day losing streak out of a 25-day campaign.

Now you know why they left? Because of conflicts generated by your rules, decisions and map mistakes.

When the Panthers and Tigers start rolling over some Allied BGs, will you then try to make it fun for the Allies? Because let me tell you that I won't need your patronizing help to deal with the tanks. Nor do I need advanced Air power, which you seem to imply that I want.

Back to these conflicts you helped create, your rule 4.33 addition, which was uncler, generated the first conflict. We accepted the ruling but you still raged on after that, which prompted the first leaving decisions, mine and Brummbar's.

Then we have your maps that generated all the other conflicts after which people left - again, they left because of the debates, not because of gameplay / winning / losing. Leci, Gortwillsaveus, k9mike announced their departure after those conflicts, and morge4 said he was on the fence.

In total there are 6 people in the campaign that considered leaving or left at one point or another. Because of you.

You need to learn how to release maps and to abide by your own rules. So that you don't generate conflicts.

The Gold mistakes (Puma and 29 units for the Allied side) and the Caen AFD defense, all generated mistakes. Not to mention aerial recon that was off. We let the latter slide and the Gold one, but on the Caen map you even had the audacity to suggest that game should go on, despite clearly disadvantaging the Allies. With your rules and changes you transformed the battle from ASD attack for us in an sort-of-AFD-defense for the Germans. Why, because the Germans were losing at the time?

How did you fix everything then? By imposing new rules to make up for your own mistakes. And we let them slide too, because you were on vacation.

Since we're on it, on June 6 you also released unplayable maps for the Germans which needed to be adapted, and battles needed to be restarted.

Also since we're on it, I was the one to point out all these three major errors, and yet you still seem to have a problem with me asking questions, while all I'm doing is trying to help the campaign. And you have the balls to tell me to go read the rules? It's because I read the rules/oobs/strat maps that I was able to spot those issues as fast as possible.

You need to learn not to screw up GJS campaigns anymore.

Considering these two threads, it's more and more clear to me that you're the reason the first one stopped, and now you're the reason for this one stalling.

You need to stop taking things personally, because they aren't.

Everyone appreciates this initiative, but you can't play it by the rules but without the rules and expect everyone to be okay with that. And you aren't the one tipping the balance in the game.

If you don't want the hassles of such a complex game then just generate 40x40 football fields with two teams that use exactly the same units, either German vs German or Allies vs Allies so you can't take sides and then everyone will have fun.

Bolding and underlining is so much fun, next time I'll explore with colors. Now lets slide in a smiley too.

GJS'44 Rules & Regs wrote:10.4 Reports or evidence of flaming or trolling, personal attacks or disrespect against any other player will not be tolerated. If a GM perceives that a player is infringing this rule, they will be sent one warning email, citing the specific reason. A second, subsequent infringement will result in expulsion from the campaign. Expect others to respect you, and be nice to them in return.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:01 am**

ALL PLAYERS

Guys,

Sorry about above posts, but it was necessary to draw a line. Hopefully, the longer posts will be retracted shortly. Apologies again for the events of the past two weeks.

Moving on, it looks like Hillman Battery, round one, is almost done? 7 turns? Remember to finish after the German player completes his "Turns Remaining 3".

Sounds like it's proving a tough one for all sides? Good luck Al and Jcb!

morge4 wrote:Down to 7 turns in Hillman...pretty much of a stalemate at the moment...casualties 9 for Allies and 7 for Germans. This will be an interesting finish

morge4 wrote:German 4 to Allied 1 for now...

I'll update our Order of Battle as soon as you guys post the Hillman result. I've got Caen, Vimont PM and Villers-Bocage PM maps ready for you... I'll add Hillman PM, as soon as I get the latest on the German defenders who will be fighting there.

Really looking forward to continuing with our campaign! Thanks for putting up with my mistakes guys. I'm learning...

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:07 am**

Jon, just quick question...I see you used the PM. Phrase...are you bringing back the 2 part AM/PM days??
Just curious.
Mike

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:41 am**

k9mike wrote:Jon, just quick question...I see you used the PM. Phrase...are you bringing back the 2 part AM/PM days??
Just curious.
Mike

Good point Mike, We're sticking with one turn, one day... But where there are multiple games for the same day, I just use AM and PM to differentiate. Could call it first round, second round, third round, if easier... It's all still June 7th... Sorry for any confusion

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:48 am**

No...Thats cool...was just curious. I forgot about how there were going to be 2 battles in same area, and thats a neat idea.
Mike

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 pm**

10.4 Reports or evidence of flaming or trolling, personal attacks or disrespect against any other player will not be tolerated. If a GM perceives that a player is infringing this rule, they will be sent one warning email, citing the specific reason. A second, subsequent infringement will result in expulsion from the campaign. Expect others to respect you, and be nice to them in return.

You can write however long posts you like and explain your version of how you got here however you want, that doesn't make it correct. But what about your disrespectful responses? Shouldn't you send yourself a warning and then an expulsion under the same rule? Oh, I forgot, you only seem to apply the rules now and then.

And now you're trying to explain my resignation and your punishment for my posts? LOL!! I didn't answer that email because I'm not always on like you are at 3:30 AM Asia time to respond to thread posts/emails, and after having answered the matter on the forum, I didn't think it needed to be answered via email, having been resolved and acknowledged publicly. So you can't accept my resignation now because there isn't one to accept. You kicked me out and then explained yourself. And you kicked me out without respecting your own rule. I went on straight to "expulsion from the campaign" not to a warning. If this was a warning, it didn't come via email either. And what point is there to warn me AFTER you have kicked me out?

You had no grounds to remove me the other day. I did tell my team mates that they have every right to remove me as commander whenever they like. In case that would have happened, and assuming they would have told me I shouldn't continue as a BG commander either, you had no right to remove me from the Allied forum, as there were plenty of other members that aren't involved in the game but still have access to it.

Remember that you started all of this by posting on a forum a disrespectful response to a question that should have been resolved between GMs and General Commanders, thus breaking another rule of yours that you put together exactly in order to avoid forum debates. Come to think of it, it looks like you really really tried to kick me off the campaign by starting this recent exchange.

And now you want me to reply via a PM and remove my posts? I see you're trying to desperately censor my opinions, but they're here to stay, for others to read, right next to yours. I won't be removing any of my posts and I won't edit them, because other players that may decide to join your games should know what kind of person you are and how you tend to act and react.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:51 pm**

Guys,

Does anyone have Cavehobbit's personal email? I need to add him to the continuing German side.
Al, if you've got it, please would you forward him our latest teams.

Hillman almost done?

Mike's kicking my ass in Caen... I made some foolishly ambitious moves, which I'm being deservedly caned for! Doh!

Thanks everyone,
Jon

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:10 pm**

Just checked my records re cavehobbit, no, sorry. Only ever contacted via PM and did request an email.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:47 pm**

Nice passive aggressive post Jon!

It seems you still want to bend reality to fit your perspective of it. Let me ask, why did I want to resign in the first place? Or the second place? Or why did I ultimately quit?

Initially, I was going to quit outright...but you apologized (thus the "your email below went along way" comment...but I see you opted to leave all of those parts out)...but again, I really tried to make things work. It was at this stage that you were insisting either KingT or I would need to go over to the Axis side. I came up with the compromise (as evidenced in your posting of my private email) to co-gm. Again, the whole time, it was because of you that I wanted to quit Jon. In the end, it was because of you that I did quit. Try to twist it whatever way you like (in fact, I see that is your MO).

GottaLove88s wrote:
If you wish to respond to this post, please do so to my private email. Out of courtesy, I will read any first reply from you, but I will not respond to it. For us, this is over.

I am posting here to close the argument. It is not good for BA or GJS'44 to have good and dedicated gamers air dirty laundry in public. Consequently, I will be happy to delete this post once you confirm that you have read it and you similarly delete your post of December 4th 16.35h without a new replacement.

Thank you. Good luck ok.[/b]

Yeah I've read it Jon...delete whatever you wish, my comments stand...my opinion of you has only solidified further. You need help.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:48 pm**

GottaLove88s wrote: Does anyone have Cavehobbit's personal email? I need to add him to the continuing German side.
Al, if you've got it, please would you forward him our latest teams.

I know his email

pwestin[at]gmail[dot]com
I'm in GMT+1 TZ btw

Cheers,
Per-Anders, aka Cavehobbit

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:52 pm**

+1

kingt wrote:
And now you want me to reply via a PM and remove my posts? I see you're trying to desperately censor my opinions, but they're here to stay, for others to read, right next to yours. I won't be removing any of my posts and I won't edit them, because other players that may decide to join your games should know what kind of person you are and how you tend to act and react.

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:31 pm**

Thanks Cavehobbit,

Got your email address! Will send updated team details your way shortly.
Things will cool down pretty quickly now, so we can all get along with gaming...
GMT+1? Mike said you were from Sweden somewhere. Did he tell you his ancestry was from that way too?
Explains our Scandinavian scenario downloads...

Posted: **Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:08 pm**

GottaLove88s wrote:Thanks Cavehobbit,

Got your email address! Will send updated team details your way shortly.
Things will cool down pretty quickly now, so we can all get along with gaming...
GMT+1? Mike said you were from Sweden somewhere. Did he tell you his ancestry was from that way too?
Explains our Scandinavian scenario downloads...

Born in Sweden, living in Sweden

Yes, Mike mentioned something about having Swedish ancestry.

/P-A

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:43 am**

Hey Mike,

New Allied Commander would like you to join the Allies, if you're up for it?
I'm sure nobody will object to you swapping sides, and would even things up nicely...

Let's play?

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:41 am**

Ok Jon. sounds good. I tried to email you...But, think I am having trouble getting through. Getting some message failures...not sure if there is a problem from my end to you...But, I am able to get through to everyone else...So, it might be just where your at or something.
Thanks Justin also, for the nice emails, and would be glad to play with you guys. Lke Jon says...Just want to play.

Take Care All
Mike

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:59 am**

Guys,

Latest confirmed teams are:

Germans - Al, Brian, Michael, Per-Anders
Allies - François, Justin, Mike, Mitch

No reply from Alex yet... But if you're out there A, you're still v welcome...

Any news of the struggle for control over Hillman Battery?

Posted: **Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:00 am**

k9mike wrote:Ok Jon. sounds good. I tried to email you...But, think I am having trouble getting through. Getting some message failures...not sure if there is a problem from my end to you...But, I am able to get through to everyone else...So, it might be just where your at or something.
Thanks Justin also, for the nice emails, and would be glad to play with you guys. Lke Jon says...Just want to play.
Take Care All
Mike

Could be Indonesian internet... Sometimes I have trouble accessing anything here too... BA forum PM usually works, when I can access it... Sorry for the inconvenience, Mike... Great to have you back on board!

Slitherine

GJS'44 Campaign Main Thread - Final June 16th 1944 Tournamen

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca

Re: GJS'44 - D-Day - Paras battle in Vimont and Villers-Boca