Slitherine

So, the question is then begged, what's the difference between a Mäki and a Vaara?

You guys are really into semantics.
In a good way, of course

Here's the Norwegian word with the most number of vocals in a row:
saueøyeeiendommeligheter (pecularities in a sheep's eye).
But I guess the Finns will beat us hands down on this one.

Sorry for the ramblings. I'm waiting for Bru to finish the Continuation War...

CoolDTA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:27 am

bru888 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:17 pm Unless somebody can suggest a better image.

This is not Keinuvaara, but it is a genuine Finnish vaara.

Ahhh, authenticity! I love it. Let's go with this, then:


Thanks!

Erik2 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:09 pm You guys are really into semantics.
In a good way, of course

Here's the Norwegian word with the most number of vocals in a row:
saueøyeeiendommeligheter (pecularities in a sheep's eye).
But I guess the Finns will beat us hands down on this one.

Sorry for the ramblings. I'm waiting for Bru to finish the Continuation War...

Presume that you mean vowels, and that y is a vowel in Norwegian too?

P.s. I have a Norwegian family branch too

Cool, I dimly remember a Finnish proverb for "Jump out of the frying pan and into the fire" but I don't remember where I got it from. I searched and found a Finnish proverbs Wiki site, found a reference to it, and used it in the game. Good thing I double-checked because "Kun menee sutta pakoon, tulee karhu vastaan" does indeed translate to something like "When you flee from a wolf, you run into a bear." I had overlooked the literal translation in favor of the author's chosen "English equivalent."


Now I have "Hyppää ulos paistinpannusta ja tuleen!" which I got from Google translate:


Is that more or less accurate and/or do the Finns have a more apt phrase that refers to jump out of frying pan and into fire?

Actually, I would prefer inserting "Let them . . ." in front of the sentence so now I have "Anna heidän hypätä ulos paistinpannusta ja tuleen!"


Note: If the proverb is indeed "wolf/bear" instead of "frying pan/fire," let's go with that and your accurate Finnish phraseology.

Shards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:04 pm So, the question is then begged, what's the difference between a Mäki and a Vaara?

Well, mäki is a smaller hill (20-50 m / 65 - 165 ft high according to one definition). Vaara is also used only in Eastern and Northern Finland ("Vaara-Suomi").

Erik2 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:09 pm Here's the Norwegian word with the most number of vocals in a row:
saueøyeeiendommeligheter (pecularities in a sheep's eye).
But I guess the Finns will beat us hands down on this one.

Actually that beats the Finnish hääyöaie (plan for the wedding night). It would be so cool to hear our American friends pronouncing these words.

Shards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:18 pm P.s. I have a Norwegian family branch too

Shhh, don't tell anyone you're our Nordic sleeper agent.

I take this opportunity for one thing. Today is the Veteran’s Day here. This year it also commemorates the 75th anniversary of the end of the Lapland War. Because of the Corona virus, the Office of the Prime Minister commissioned a virtual choir of 1,075 singers to perform the Sibelius hymn Finlandia. You can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG1WcTLDJ1E.

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:26 pm Now I have "Hyppää ulos paistinpannusta ja tuleen!" which I got from Google translate:

That is indeed the literal translation, but is not used here. I'd say idioms or proverbs are by far the hardest to translate from any one language to another. The correct phrase is 'ojasta allikkoon'. With your preference: 'Joutukoot ojasta allikkoon'.

However, 'Kun menee sutta pakoon, tulee karhu vastaan' has the same meaning. So it is the designer's choice which one to use.

Oh no, not Finlandia again.... /starts chopping onions

CoolDTA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:54 pm

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:26 pm Now I have "Hyppää ulos paistinpannusta ja tuleen!" which I got from Google translate:

That is indeed the literal translation, but is not used here. I'd say idioms or proverbs are by far the hardest to translate from any one language to another. The correct phrase is 'ojasta allikkoon'. With your preference: 'Joutukoot ojasta allikkoon'.

However, 'Kun menee sutta pakoon, tulee karhu vastaan' has the same meaning. So it is the designer's choice which one to use.

We have the "Finnish Nightmares" calendar this year. This month's phrase is also very good and worthy of Bru's attention:

"Juosta pää kolmantena jalkana"

CoolDTA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:54 pm

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:26 pm Now I have "Hyppää ulos paistinpannusta ja tuleen!" which I got from Google translate:

That is indeed the literal translation, but is not used here. I'd say idioms or proverbs are by far the hardest to translate from any one language to another. The correct phrase is 'ojasta allikkoon'. With your preference: 'Joutukoot ojasta allikkoon'.

However, 'Kun menee sutta pakoon, tulee karhu vastaan' has the same meaning. So it is the designer's choice which one to use.

Thanks. I'm going to go with the "Kun menee sutta pakoon, tulee karhu vastaan" and the wolf/bear thing.

Shards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:55 pm Oh no, not Finlandia again.... /starts chopping onions

Shards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:59 pm We have the "Finnish Nightmares" calendar this year. This month's phrase is also very good and worthy of Bru's attention:

"Juosta pää kolmantena jalkana"

I feel like I am conversing in Klingon!

Shards wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:59 pm We have the "Finnish Nightmares" calendar this year. This month's phrase is also very good and worthy of Bru's attention:

"Juosta pää kolmantena jalkana"

You do? Wow! The nightmares are very true and to the point.



But I hope Bru doesn't take the one you mentioned too literally.

CoolDTA wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:15 pm But I hope Bru doesn't take the one you mentioned too literally.

Yeah, I feel like he just told me to "flip off."

CoolDTA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:10 pm No Finnish paratroop units existed until 1962.

Thank you once again, Cool. I went back and fished out your quote to buttress the point that I made recently about how "I have found some wildly inaccurate statements among their combat synopses." The following is not a criticism of Erik, who has been doing a great job of mapping and outlining these campaigns. It is a criticism of those JTCS eggheads who seem to go off on a tangent at times; perhaps on a whim or maybe because they didn't do their homework, or both.

Here is the JTCS synopsis of Terijoki 1941:


Erik rightly included only Finnish troops in this scenario, so an objective involving Fallschirmjäger units would not have been feasible anyway (Germany and Waffen SS are neutral in this scenario). But I think he read this synopsis and thought about such an objective before abandoning it (and perhaps forgetting about it). It is out now.

The Utti Jaeger Regiment special forces "trace their history to the four long-range reconnaissance patrol detachments (Finnish: kaukopartio-osastot) and Detached Battalion 4 (Finnish: Erillinen Pataljoona 4), which fought in the Continuation War and Lapland War during 1941–1944. After the wartime units were demobilized in November 1944, the Army reinitiated organized special forces training in February 1962 by establishing the Parachute Jaeger School . . ." A similar mention of "In the beginning of the 1960s, Paratrooper School was established . . ." appears in the Wiki article Sissi (Finnish light infantry)

To be fair, I use Wikipedia extensively. Maybe many of these articles were not available back when those guys were designing custom stuff for JTCS.

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:04 pm Erik rightly included only Finnish troops in this scenario, so an objective involving Fallschirmjäger units would not have been feasible anyway (Germany and Waffen SS are neutral in this scenario). But I think he read this synopsis and thought about such an objective before abandoning it (and perhaps forgetting about it). It is out now.

Aha! The scenario description ends not with that reference to paratroopers but "Meanwhile the leading formation of the Finnish 2nd Corps, the Fourth Infantry Regiment (JR4) was leading the way towards Terijoki." This seems to indicate that Erik did indeed catch this upon second thought. Kudos! [Discreetly sweeps the Fallschirmjäger objective under the rug. ]

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:04 pm It is a criticism of those JTCS eggheads who seem to go off on a tangent at times; perhaps on a whim or maybe because they didn't do their homework, or both.

[...]

To be fair, I use Wikipedia extensively. Maybe many of these articles were not available back when those guys were designing custom stuff for JTCS.

It is so stupid to even think of a country having paratroopers but no transport aircraft. Did these guys think the imaginary Finnish paratroopers used their wings to fly to a drop zone? A quick check reveals JTCS Winter War was released in 2008. There sure was a lot of articles available at the time if you bothered to do your homework.

Like I've said before Wikipedia is a good source if you remember to use it critically.

Couple of corrections to the locations in that synopsis:

Sortvala -> Sortavala
Khitola -> Hiitola
Vyborg -> Viipuri
Sestra River -> Rajajoki (literally "Border River")



Rajajoki station - the last stop on the side of democracy.

Sortavala, Hiitola and Viipuri: check. (The latter should be that instead of Vyborg because we are looking at these events through Finnish eyes). That said, I am going to work in Rajajoki but also retain Reka Sestra (the age-old dichotomy of Finnish and Russian place names again) because I actually found Reka Sestra on the map!

A portion of the scenario description:


Whether that phrase in your last sentence is actually an historical slogan or something you just made up, artistic license dictates that it be preserved thusly:


I connected a couple of rivers on the east edge of the map (away from any action) so that it could represent the meandering Rajajoki. Somewhat too close to the village of Terijoki perhaps but that's a bit more artistic license.

bru888 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:19 amThat said, I am going to work in Rajajoki but also retain Reka Sestra (the age-old dichotomy of Finnish and Russian place names again) because I actually found Reka Sestra on the map!

Retaining Reka Sestra is a good idea. Both Finnish and Russian names are fine, but since this is Continuation War 1941, the Finnish is in this case more appropriate.

I just made up that phrase, but I'd argue it is quite true. It was a quite popular tourist attraction in those days standards: annually 40,000 - 50,000 ppl visited there and why not:



Gateway to Hel... I mean Workers' Paradise.

Erik, I am concerned about 07Olonets. Even though it comes up normally when nuking through the campaign, I cannot get it to appear in the scenario list. Even when I save the scenario with another name, it does not show. It is not a matter of game version incompatibility; your original scenario is version-stamped 8.3.0. This hints at file corruption and therefore I am going to rewrite this scenario from scratch, using your original as a template.

bru888 wrote: ↑Fri May 01, 2020 7:54 pm Erik, I am concerned about 07Olonets. Even though it comes up normally when nuking through the campaign, I cannot get it to appear in the scenario list. Even when I save the scenario with another name, it does not show. It is not a matter of game version incompatibility; your original scenario is version-stamped 8.3.0. This hints at file corruption and therefore I am going to rewrite this scenario from scratch, using your original as a template.

Answering the worry expressed in the new scenario description: It did.


Same file name: 07Olonets, so the campaign structure will be fine. There was something fishy about that other file. I took screenshots and notes in order to rebuild your original scenario.

P.S. - This might have been the problem, which I found only after I finished the new map. Cannot be sure, however, so I will continue. Two humans: