Slitherine

Geffalrus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:04 pm Don't forget map generation luck. Giving one player who has lots of mediums a nice rocky hill (I've now been both sides of that equation), throwing a deep stream in the center, or (just had this happen) spawning a mountain pass to dominate the map can massively benefit one army type over the other.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:26 pm This game is doing my head in again. I stopped playing over 6 months ago and have only played in the FOG2DL since then if someone has dropped out at the last minute. I won't be doing this again, and if you see me putting my name down as a reserve again you all have to remember this post and tell me not to do it. I will be very grateful. So, at the end of this tournament I will be permanently retired. Of course, I will still continue to run the FOG2DL as always.

Why does it do my head in? Basically, I think luck becomes more of a factor the more equal in skill the two players are. This was also true of FOG1. So, in two of my recent games, one of my opponents (who is better than me anyway) had about 10 rallies, including 3 routed units, while I had either none or one (I can't remember exactly). What are you supposed to do with luck like that? Then, in another game, right at the very beginning two of my units fragged on impact against units of similar capabilities. Why would they? They were not being charged downhill by superior troops, or being attacked in the rear. And then when they are routed soon after, they caused cohesion drops in adjacent units so the whole line is now in danger of collapse. I just look at it all and wonder what have I done wrong in this situation? Nothing really and it is meant to be a game of skill.

harveylh wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:28 pm
Pete,

I'm up to nearly 100 league games and probably close to 200 multiplayer games overall. I have found about 2 games out of every 10 between players of equal skill are decided by luck (however map generation is a whole different issue). And of those two games, you usually win one of them. However beware of small sample sizes. There is always the possibilty of a "hot" streak or "cold" streak. And it is human nature to forget or downplay good luck because we like to think we won the game because of our skill. And speaking of bad luck, in our recent game, you charged uphill against my MI with a general. You fragged my unit on contact despite the general and disrupted the unit next to it. That helped you a great deal in our very close game that you won by 63-51 as it unhinged that flank several turns faster than otherwise. Despite that I had a lot of fun and you did too. The key is to not take any loss too seriously. And you can't retire until I get a rematch.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:24 pm You can offset that a bit by picking armies that offer a balance of HF, MF, cavalry and skirmishers e.g. the Carthaginian armies, but yes, map generation can have a decisive effect on battle outcomes.

SpeedyCM wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:53 am Without a randomizing factor such as a die roll you would just get the same result every time.

Then what is the point of playing?

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:51 am

SpeedyCM wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:53 am Without a randomizing factor such as a die roll you would just get the same result every time.

Then what is the point of playing?

Of course, I haven't suggested that there should be no random elements in the game, but there are ways of reducing their impact. The game does this already to a certain extent with re-rolls for certain types of troops. But I don't think, for example, that equally matched warband units should be able to fragment each other on impact and then go onto cause multiple cohesion failures when they rout the next turn. That is just giving way too much power to one roll of the dice. Where is the skill in it? Anyway, it doesn't matter as I have argued all these things before in the main forum to no avail. The game just doesn't work for me, I'm afraid, but I do really enjoy organising this league and I will continue to do so.

I can't be arsed to sit down, think about what army I should pick, devise a plan, and then have it all quickly go pear-shaped because of the dice. Not my idea of fun. Perhaps I am getting old and grumpy (64 now), but this is my last season.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 am
Pete I feel the same as you. Luck has become the deciding factor in most of the FDL games. That is luck for me and against. Without disrespect to anyone the only player I have played that is definitely a cut above the rest is Pantherboy. When not playing FDL I play only large scale battles i.e. 2000 points. I feel this rewards tactical superiority and lessens victory through luck of the die. Because of the greater number of troops and hence combats the luck evens out before your army collapses. Could the FDL be played using 2000 point armies? In saying all that I think that FOG2 is a fantastic game that probably still needs a little tweeking. I started with TT 7th edition and have enjoyed all iterations despite their faults and have great faith in the creators and their ability to sort what needs to be sorted. Don't give up Pete rather stay in the moment and manage the frustrations Your contribution to this wonderful pastime as a player and an organiser are greatly appreciated.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:47 am Funnily I always thought of you as a younger guy

Morbio wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:56 pm Pete, will increasing the size of the armies reduce player choice in army composition and make some army selections very predictable? i.e. pretty much everything listed would need to be taken to use 2,000 points. If yes, would this remove any tactical or surprise element from the game?

Morbio wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:56 pm Pete, will increasing the size of the armies reduce player choice in army composition and make some army selections very predictable? i.e. pretty much everything listed would need to be taken to use 2,000 points. If yes, would this remove any tactical or surprise element from the game?