Slitherine

Hey GottaLove88s, Brummbar44, Leci, jcb989 and Gortwillsaveus,

I am requesting a cease fire on Caen as I have two concerns with the map, which I would have raised before the battle had I tested the Caen scenario beforehand. Being a playing-commander, I thought it's not fair to play the games before they are done here, so I have not tested Caen until reading reports from jcb989 and seeing a screenshot from him.

I will email you guys according to the recently established protocol.

Email sent, awaiting answers from the GMs and the German Command.

Thanks KingT, am in receipt...hope to get this resolved to everyones satisfaction and in short order.

kingt wrote:Hey GottaLove88s, Brummbar44, Leci, jcb989 and Gortwillsaveus,

I am requesting a cease fire on Caen as I have two concerns with the map, which I would have raised before the battle had I tested the Caen scenario beforehand. Being a playing-commander, I thought it's not fair to play the games before they are done here, so I have not tested Caen until reading reports from jcb989 and seeing a screenshot from him.

I will email you guys according to the recently established protocol.

I think it only fair that I understand what the concerns are.
k9mike and leci both asked me to join in and assist them on Axis team,...and I agreed, even though I am pressed for time with other issues.
All in all,..my impression of the first 6 turns was that jcb989 and I were having a great time playing.

jcb989 and I have played about 6 turns last night,..and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.
I'd like to be clued in on what may be the issue at hand,..since I'm the one playing the game with jcb989.
As it is,..I wouldn't agree to a cease-fire....

Many thanks and apologies Gort.

The matter of Allied, isolated para BGs, enjoying mega morale values has been raised internally. But, 220?

I hate to add to the 'stop, start' nature and debate of this GJS'44 campaign (a stop, start model which only serves to alienate players and reduce playability) but your comment about having played six turns before the Allies raised a challenge only serves to highlight game flaws.

I would ask all players to 'hang fire'.

But I suspect we are at a watershed.

Thanks Leci,...I expect you'll let me know what the problem is off-line,...so I'll wait to hear from you.

leci wrote:Many thanks and apologies Gort.

The matter of Allied, isolated para BGs, enjoying mega morale values has been raised internally. But, 220?

I hate to add to the 'stop, start' nature and debate of this GJS'44 campaign (a stop, start model which only serves to alienate players and reduce playability) but your comment about having played six turns before the Allies raised a challenge only serves to highlight game flaws.

I would ask all players to 'hang fire'.

But I suspect we are at a watershed.

200 base morale for Paras/SS, +25 for a kill. -5 for having been shot at while taking the kill. At three-star it can go up to 250, not that you'll see that happen too often.

By the time I have seen the screenshot posted by jcb989, loaded the Caen map for the first time myself, and submitted the challenge the battle continued between them. That's not my fault, I moved as fast as I could. It didn't help that they're in the same TZ. Had I been asleep, they may have finished the battle by morning Europe time. (This can all be checked out in the Allied thread).

gortwillsaveus wrote:

kingt wrote:Hey GottaLove88s, Brummbar44, Leci, jcb989 and Gortwillsaveus,

I am requesting a cease fire on Caen as I have two concerns with the map, which I would have raised before the battle had I tested the Caen scenario beforehand. Being a playing-commander, I thought it's not fair to play the games before they are done here, so I have not tested Caen until reading reports from jcb989 and seeing a screenshot from him.

I will email you guys according to the recently established protocol.

I think it only fair that I understand what the concerns are.
k9mike and leci both asked me to join in and assist them on Axis team,...and I agreed, even though I am pressed for time with other issues.
All in all,..my impression of the first 6 turns was that jcb989 and I were having a great time playing.

jcb989 and I have played about 6 turns last night,..and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.
I'd like to be clued in on what may be the issue at hand,..since I'm the one playing the game with jcb989.
As it is,..I wouldn't agree to a cease-fire....

In short German deployment was not done according to the rules for GJS ME battle.

This is now in the public domain. So no matter...

This Caen battle was played across six turns (repeat, six turns).and was described as a great and enjoyable game, therefore difficult not to question the motives for the delay in the map/scenario/rule delta being raised.

Gort has raised an important point - rules apart he and Jcb engaged in a battle in good faith. Why would they not assume that the map/scenario was valid - after all it was issued by the GMs.

gortwillsaveus wrote:

kingt wrote:Hey GottaLove88s, Brummbar44, Leci, jcb989 and Gortwillsaveus,

I am requesting a cease fire on Caen as I have two concerns with the map, which I would have raised before the battle had I tested the Caen scenario beforehand. Being a playing-commander, I thought it's not fair to play the games before they are done here, so I have not tested Caen until reading reports from jcb989 and seeing a screenshot from him.

I will email you guys according to the recently established protocol.

I think it only fair that I understand what the concerns are.
k9mike and leci both asked me to join in and assist them on Axis team,...and I agreed, even though I am pressed for time with other issues.
All in all,..my impression of the first 6 turns was that jcb989 and I were having a great time playing.

jcb989 and I have played about 6 turns last night,..and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.
I'd like to be clued in on what may be the issue at hand,..since I'm the one playing the game with jcb989.
As it is,..I wouldn't agree to a cease-fire....

Hey Gort,
Thanks for this, Great to have you back on board. You're an awesome player and a gentleman.

I've become caught up in this from a distance, so I've proposed to Mac (who is co-GM, and lead-GMing the campaign in my absence) some solutions so Mac & I can prevent this issue (to be fair, a map mess up on my part) is avoided in future.

But you raise an excellent solution that should be aired...

In the interests of sportsmanship and just getting on with it, if Gort & Jcb989 (the only two players in Caen) are happy to finish their game and abide by the results that's wholly acceptable to me...

I raise it here, to leave it with you guys overnight. Goodnight all!

Hello,
The game itself going well, Gort is a good opponent to have and the banter is a lot of fun, no disrepect was intended by me informing my supreme commander regarding rule questions that I had regarding the differences between a ME and a ASD engagement. The things that I raised as -possible- issues to Kingt were raised in the Allied forum, as was per previous agreements not to air all the questions about rules in the public domain, so as not to cause a big stir. I guess a big stir gets caused anyway, though, if for no other reason because we have two sides playing a game based on an evolving rulebook. I think the proper word we could be using for this new Caen question I posed to Kingt would be "Clarification of the rules" on start-up of any brand new map. Certainly did not mean to imply any error of rules by Gort or myself - just had questions about the manner the GM set up this scenario.

I'm prepared to play the matter through of course. But I thought my observations should be provided to Monty in case the scenario has been made with error.

leci wrote:This is now in the public domain. So no matter...

This Caen battle was played across six turns (repeat, six turns).and was described as a great and enjoyable game, therefore difficult not to question the motives for the delay in the map/scenario/rule delta being raised.

Gort has raised an important point - rules apart he and Jcb engaged in a battle in good faith. Why would they not assume that the map/scenario was valid - after all it was issued by the GMs.

The maps are great, and gameplay is great as well, that's not being questioned here. For regular MP gameplay it doesn't really matter. But for GJS the fact that the ME rule has not been enforced creates a disadvantage to the Allies as they face entrenched troops instead of troops on the move, or partially on the move.

Also, it now occurs to me that since you're a non-playing commander and have tested Caen before deployment you haven't said a word about the fact the map starts with 5 german flags and a wide deployment area, but now you question our motives and timeframe of raising objections.

GottaLove88s wrote:
In the interests of sportsmanship and just getting on with it, if Gort & Jcb989 (the only two players in Caen) are happy to finish their game and abide by the results that's wholly acceptable to me...

In theory that could be a solution but from a tactical point of view and considering the length of the campaign and exposure of the 6/6 in the following hours/days this is definitely not the acceptable solution because it would lead to an extra loss of Allied units caused by the forward positions of the German BG. And any unit matters especially for Para BGs.

I think we have already proved that we're playing fair the game in the Gold battle a few days ago and will continue to do so in the future.

I'm waiting to hear back from Jon, but short answer is Caen will be a replay.

Consider the turns you've played a training exercise, you both will have a better understanding of the ground now.

Jon will be updating the rules as well to reflect the responsibilities of the players to verify the set up as being correct. So if something looks out of place, stop and let your commander know who in turn will pass it up the line to the GM. Be aware, we are all spread out across the globe so time zones will have an impact on decisions, re-sets etc...

As an outsider, please have the courtesy to advise Gort.

leci wrote:As an outsider, please have the courtesy to advise Gort.

Gort, Klaatu barada nikto



(sorry, I could not resist)

Once I have the new download, I will post another game password: klaatu
Also I will go into the current game and provide comments to check this thread there
(although I can't do that from work it will need to wait until later)

Mac - your 'training exercise' explanation does not really hit the hot buttons. Should local BG commanders and or 'high' commanders' play maps pre formal battles? Are you now endorsing such an approach?

Something out of place? By when in terms of moves? 'Looks out of place'? By what criteria? I am not trying to create or engender a rule based game, but rather to reinforce and encourage a logical player based war game.

Guys: I didn't originally join this tournament because I had been tied up with personal issues that are inappropriate to discuss here.

However,....when k9mike and leci asked me,....I felt I could squeeze this in on one condition:
- That I would play games all the way through, and not have to spend a lot of time on the forums.

I've played all of you at one time or another in MP games and enjoyed every one of them!
jcb989: You really made me laugh last night with comments we made to each other as we played.

Sorry guys,..but I should have told leci and k9mike that while I appreciate the request, I just can't play at this time. That was my fault entirely.
So,...while regret to have to do this,...I have to bow out.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. lol.
Gort, I'll see you out there buddy.
Thanks for handing me my hat btw in Christmas Surprise.
-jb

For info. I had/have resigned as the German Commander prior to 15:00 GMT.