Slitherine

Good luck with Moscow, I wonder how often the AI will counter-attack when you (try to) create encirclements.

Yeah, I had a look at the Moscow scenario. It looks intimidating at first sight, so it'll be interesting to see if we go about handling it the same way or if we choose different approaches.

Been tinkering with the first turn on and off for a couple of hours now, but I can find no way to get any good encirclements here, except for Tula. It seems like it will have to be small encirclments and otherwise a slow and sytematic push with some more small encirlcements when the opportunity presents itself.

I have not gotten Panzer Corps 2 but it it interesting to see how you and others are progressing through the campaign. From the sounds of it, Moscow sounds like a challenge.

Yeah, actually restarted Moscow once already. Winning in time is not the main problem, doing it with acceptable casualties/prestige gains is the challenge here. I think I will have to replace more often during the scenario here.

I've started it, but it's clearly going to take some time to play through. Optimistic about my chances so far although I've had a few setbacks (playing blind so I've been forced to react to the AI a few times).

Semi-blind in the first run as well, played it once before during my General campaign.

Moscow


With Steve having released Aurora C# this took way longer than expected, but finally I managed to complete Moscow.

Upgraded:1x 2cm Flakvierling 38 to 8,8cm FlaK 36, 1x Bf109E to Bf 109F, 1x Bf 110D to Bf 110F

Bought: 1x Fallschirmjäger, 2x T-50, 1x Panzer IIF

Starting Prestige: 32.680 - 86/86 slots

Infantry:
1. Pioniere (truck)
2. Pioniere (truck)
3. Pioniere (truck)
4. Fallschirmjäger
5. Gebirgsjäger (reserve)
6. Fallschirmjäger (NEW)
7. Brückenpioniere (reserve)

Tanks:
1. Panzer IVF
2. Panzer IVF
3. Panzer IVF
4 .Panzer IIIH
5. Panzer IB
6. Panzer IB
7. T-50 (NEW)
8. T-50 (NEW)

Recon:
1. Sdkfz 232
2. Sdkfz 232
3. SdKfz 232
4. Panzer IIF (NEW)

Artillery:
1. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
2. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
3. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
4. StuG IIIB
5. 10,5 cm leFH 18 (half-track)
6. StuG IIIB
7. StuG IIIB
8. StuG IIIB

Anti-Air:
1. 8,8cm FlaK 36 (UPGRADE)
2. 2cm Flakvierling (half-track)
3. SdKfz 7/1
4. 2cm Flakvierling (half-track) (reserve)

Fighter:
1. Bf 109F
2. Bf 109F (UPGRADE)

Tactical Bomber:
1. Bf 110F (UPGRADE)
Fi 156 Storch

Strategic Bomber:
1. Ju 88A (reserve)
2. Ju 88A (reserve)
3. Do 217E
4. Do 217E
5. Do 217E



Setup: Downgraded the transport for the Pioniere down to trucks since I need the slots for more boots on the ground (or initially in the air since I bought another Fallschirmjäger unit for those slots). A new recon Panzer IIF has been bought due to the all-terrain SdKfz 232s being fairly bad in the snow, due to this when possible the carriages have been converted to horse-drawn as well and I finally got myself a 88 FlaK. The T-50s should be helpful due to their movement of 6 and better armor than the reserved Pz IBs. Due to the expected bad weather less strat bombers for this run. The overall idea here is a large encirclement starting counter-clockwise with Fallschirmjäger closing the final gaps.



Turn 1: Pushed the AT gun at Kalinin onto the river and surrendered it there for the sake of some early speed, encircled the T-50 to the south. 4. Fallschirmjäger dropped at the lake to the east. Tula and the 2 cavalry around it encircled, fighter at Tula shot down. Occupied Klin.



Turn 2: Exposed Pz IVF at Kalinin got hit for 4 HP by T-34/40, +2 HP via elite replacements for 90 prestige. Conscripts took back Klin and other Conscript attacked a SdKfz 232 to no effect. Attackers encircled.No idea why a LaGG-3 fighter attacked my Pz IVF to the west of Tula, but the 88 hit it for 5, attacked it for 3 on my turn, bringing it down with the help of a Bf 109F. T-60 attacked in the south of Naro-Fominsk and the AT gun joined in, they were encircled.



Turn 3: Further attacks in the north, AT gun is too close to the Strongpoints to do anything about it, the artillery fort to the south hampers effective encirclements as well, Yak-1 fighter shot down and the first Conscripts together with the T-34/40 are captured. Trying to get my forces out of range from the fort and lure the Soviet units away from the Strongpoints. 4.Fallschirmjäger take Kimry. Naro-Fominsk occupied, Tula largely captured.



Turn 4: Sukhoi Su-2 fighter-bomber attacked one of my T-50s close to Serpukhov despite it being protected by the 88, T-50 damaged for 2, Su-2 for 5, shot down afterwards. Still a Guards unit left close to Naro-Fominsk, but I don’t have time to deal with it now, need to keep moving east towards the Moscow supply hex.



Turn 5:Nice, the Guards actually moved away from the Strongpoint, captured.



Turn 6: 80th Strongpoint surrounded. Forces starting to gather in the south of Moscow, waiting for 1.Pioniere to get into position, 6.Fallschirmjäger dropped in the back of the Soviet line, 84th Strongpoint and a Guards unit encircled.



Turn 7: Mikhaylov in the SE corner captured, part of the force is getting ready to encircle the 2 tanks around Kolomna. 4. Fallschirmjäger embarked and flying to the southeast of Moscow as well.



Turn 8: Valentine III and KV-1/41 activated and ran right into Panzer protected by the 88... Remains encircled. 4.Fallschirmjäger dropped onto Kolomna airfield.



Turn 9: AA gun in the NW destroyed, Soviet Para and Regular encircled. Kolomna occupied, preparations to cross the Moskva river in the SE.



Turn 10: NW largely pacified, one Conscript left in view, hopefully large parts of the mobile infantry in Moscow have been drawn away – looks like there are 3 left. Moskva crossed, Yegoryevsk occupied. AA gun at Moscow supply hex destroyed, SPArt brought down to 1 HP, 4.Fallschirmjäger embarked.



Turn 11: Counterattack in the east by a KV-2, a T-34/41 and a SU-100Y SPAT gun, encircled. Supply hex occupied by 1.Pioniere. 2.Panzer crossed the Volga-Moskva Canal close to Kimry.



Turn 12: Second/final supply hex occupied, more units crossing the Canal in the north. 4. Fallschirmjäger getting in position for a drop to the north of Moscow to fill any gaps in the pocket.



Turn 13: Pocket around Moscow sealed – it is likely to be reopened, but the units inside will have lost 40% combat effectiveness anyway. Couple of elite replacements for the expected assault, around 500 prestige overall.



Turn 14: No real counterattack materialised. Replacements for about 200 prestige, improving positions to repel attacks and start capturing for real on the next turn.



Turn 15: Still only minor Soviet attacks, starting to compress the pocket due to most Soviet units inside being out of morale next turn.



Turn 16: Snow on the next turn and the counterattack happened this turn, split Pz IVF and 88 FlaK destroyed, two other spit Panzer heavily damaged, around 400 prestige for replacements. 4.Fallschirmjäger dropping at the eastern edge of the map to seal a pocket containing 2 KV-1/41 and 1 SU-6 SPAA – which I want to capture as intact as possible since it is a very good AA unit. Depleting the ammunition of the other AA gun by attacks from split of BF 109Fs and for XP .



Turn 17: Snow, so no strat bombing, resealing the opened pocket.



Turn 18: Some additional Soviet units attacking the in NE. 9 SU-6 SPAAs captured.



Turn 19: Clean-up.



Turn 20:



Turn 21: Final victory hex taken/cleared.



Turn 22:

Turn 23: Final Fort destroyed and Regular captured, the end...

Final prestige: 40.842 (+9.300), after repairs: 39.658 (+6.978)

The plan worked pretty much as expected, it turned out that I could have even been a bit more careful / saved on in scenario replacements (around 1.200 prestige) and or gained more prestige from captures. I could have ended the game around turn 20 with a complete victory (including bonus objectives), but wanted the last drops of XP for my units. I still dislike some of the kamikaze tactics like attacking units visibly protected by 88 with tanks, this costs a decent chunk of prestige The weather was actually much better than I expected from earlier playthroughs. Overall a good one and I am pretty pleased to have 18 SU-6 SPAAs now, will surely field one from now on.

The SU-6 is lovely. In fact, it's so lovely I deployed one at Kharkov '42 and promptly lost 5 points due to a brainfart. Woe is me. There is a weird bug with it, though, with the AA and AT units being treated as separate entities for some reason.

Speaking of bugs, I confirmed the small-calibre AA bug by checking the log after a Soviet bomber hit one of my Flammpanzers, which explains their abysmal performance to date -- given that they can target the close defence of aircraft, which is generally 0, I expected decent results when they were providing supporting fire, but instead they just whiff as they're currently set to target the ground defence instead. Perhaps they're actually useful if you have AA Veteran, but for me they're just wasted points at the moment.

FWIW I'd argue that covering your tanks with ATs is counterproductive if you're trying to maximise prestige, as the extra losses you sustain probably cost you less prestige than you can earn from the undamaged Soviet tanks, at least as long as you're fielding mainly cheaper units.

SineMora wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:19 pm FWIW I'd argue that covering your tanks with ATs is counterproductive if you're trying to maximise prestige, as the extra losses you sustain probably cost you less prestige than you can earn from the undamaged Soviet tanks, at least as long as you're fielding mainly cheaper units.

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion after your answer in your thread, no more AT mode for AA guns for me unless actively used in an attacking role.

SineMora wrote: ↑Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:19 pm There is a weird bug with it, though, with the AA and AT units being treated as separate entities for some reason.

Though it indeed looks like a bug, I'm not sure if it isn't due to how the capture system works, with equipment being captured as the class it uses at the time.

As an unrelated, but similar issue: identical equipment from different nations is shown as separate entities in the purchase screen, like the Polish (from Poland North) and French FT-17's.

comradep wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:08 am Though it indeed looks like a bug, I'm not sure if it isn't due to how the capture system works, with equipment being captured as the class it uses at the time.

As an unrelated, but similar issue: identical equipment from different nations is shown as separate entities in the purchase screen, like the Polish (from Poland North) and French FT-17's.

The two units have different prestige values, though, which is what makes them look so strange. In fact, this seems to be a problem with many non-German units. If it's a design decision it's a very strange one because it's the same unit.

Kharkov ‘42

Upgrade: 2cm Flakvierling to 88 FlaK 36, 2x Bf 109F to Bf 109G
Bought: 1x SU-6, 1x Bf 110G, 1x Pz IB, 1x T-60, 2x Brückenpioniere

Infantry:
1. Pioniere (truck)
2. Pioniere (truck)
3. Pioniere (truck)
4. Fallschirmjäger (reserve)
5. Gebirgsjäger (reserve)
6. Fallschirmjäger (reserve)
7. Brückenpioniere
8. Brückenpioniere (NEW)
9. Brückenpioniere (NEW)

Tanks:
1. Panzer IVF
2. Panzer IVF
3. Panzer IVF
4 .Panzer IIIH
5. Panzer IB
6. Panzer IB
7. T-50
8. T-50
9. Panzer IB (NEW)
10. T-60 (NEW)

Recon:
1. Sdkfz 232
2. Sdkfz 232
3. SdKfz 232
4. Panzer IIF (reserve)

Artillery:
1. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
2. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
3. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
4. StuG IIIB
5. 10,5 cm leFH 18 (half-track)
6. StuG IIIB
7. StuG IIIB
8. StuG IIIB

Anti-Air:
1. 8,8cm FlaK 36
2. 8,8cm FlaK 36 (UPGRADE)
3. SdKfz 7/1
4. 2cm Flakvierling (half-track) (reserve)

Fighter:
1. Bf 109G (UPGRADE)
2. Bf 109G (UPGRADE)

Tactical Bomber:
1. Bf 110F
2. Bf 110G (NEW)
Fi 156 Storch

Strategic Bomber:
1. Ju 88A (reserve)
2. Ju 88A (reserve)
3. Do 217E
4. Do 217E
5. Do 217E (reserve)


Starting prestige: 38.028, 95/95 slots



Setup: With no Soviet supply hexes the main idea is a large encirclements right from the start. Due to this 2 Brückenpioniere are brought to cross the Donets river in the north and south, a third is bought since one deployment slot is left and it should be helpful with encirclements and high prestige infantry surrenders.



Turn 1: 3 Soviet aircraft shot down, first encirclements after attacks by cavalry, infantry, light tanks and recon cars around Kharkov and Krasnograd. Units crossing the Donets in the north and south in preparation for the large encirclement.



Turn 2: 2 fighters attacking my Do 217E are shot down. Tanks around Kharkov captured. Large encirclement nearly completed.



Turn 3: Cauldron completed, some already weakened units captured.



Turn 4: Soviet attacks, but too little to endanger the cauldron.



Turn 5: Heavy attacks by the Red Air Force, at least 3 fighters and 2 fighter-bombers left, both fighter-bombers and 1 fighter shot down. Clean-up started.



Turn 6: Compressing Cauldron, damaged both fighters.



Turn 7: Shot down another fighter, 1 left. Lozovaya captured.



Turn 8: Final fighter shot down, Bravenkovo captured, Balakliya is the final objective – garrison already captured. Volokonovka encircled.



Turn 9: Izyum and Kupyansk occupied, remaining units encircled, waiting for low HP units to deal the finishing blows – essentially the end...



Turn 10:


The real end happened at turn 12.


Ending prestige: 50.089 (+ 12.261, including about 200 prestige from replacements), after repairs: 49.115 (+11.087)


The large encirclement worked quite nicely and except for some cavalry kamikaze charges at the beginning my captures were fairly good. With the additional time I had it might have been possible to milk the scenario for another 1k prestige with taking care to cause minimal damage earlier than I did. But yes, the devs should teach the AI to try aggressively to break out of encirclements. Once the pocket is established it is essentially like shooting fish in a barrel. The attack that did occur was way to small.

You also had the suicidal Cavalry charging right into Krasnograd, huh? Nice encirclement; I don't think I'd have dared to go for that without knowing where the Soviet units were.

Yeah, some map knowledge did help, but recon aircraft and the SdKfz 232 helped with the details. Since the map is fairly "small" - due to the additional starting positions in the SE - it was clear by turn 2 that any serious block seemed unlikely.

Sevastopol

Upgrade: Bf 110F to Bf 110G
Bought: Gustav railway gun

Infantry:
1. Pioniere (half-track)
2. Pioniere (half-track)
3. Pioniere (truck) (reserve)
4. Fallschirmjäger
5. Gebirgsjäger (reserve)
6. Fallschirmjäger
7. Brückenpioniere (reserve)
8. Brückenpioniere (reserve)
9. Brückenpioniere (reserve)

Tanks:
1. Panzer IVF
2. Panzer IVF
3. Panzer IVF (reserve)
4 .Panzer IIIH
5. Panzer IB
6. Panzer IB
7. T-50
8. T-50 (reserve)
9. Panzer IB
10. T-60

Recon:
1. Sdkfz 232
2. Sdkfz 232
3. SdKfz 232
4. Panzer IIF (reserve)

Artillery:
1. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
2. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
3. 15 cm sFH 18 (half-track)
4. StuG IIIB
5. 10,5 cm leFH 18 (half-track)
6. StuG IIIB
7. StuG IIIB
8. StuG IIIB
Gustav Eisenbahngeschütz (NEW)

Anti-Air:
1. 8,8cm FlaK 36
2. 8,8cm FlaK 36
3. SdKfz 7/1 (reserve)
4. 2cm Flakvierling (half-track) (reserve)
5. SU-6

Fighter:
1. Bf 109G
2. Bf 109G

Tactical Bomber:
1. Bf 110G (UPGRADE)
2. Bf 110G
Fi 156 Storch

Strategic Bomber:
1. Ju 88A (reserve)
2. Ju 88A
3. Do 217E
4. Do 217E(reserve)
5. Do 217E (reserve)


Starting prestige: 43.775, 99/99 slots



Setup: Looking at the map I see two supply hexes (Sevastopol and a hex a bit to the east of it), the rest looks good for a large encirclement. Depending on recon results a fairly large encirclement in the east looks feasible. And with enough boots on the ground for this and no hard to cross rivers no Brückenpioniere are brought. The Maxim Gorky heavy fort makes using the Gustav railway gun pretty much mandatory and the other forts with their range of 3 add to this – the main question is wether to buy a Gustav (7 slots) or use the aux one. Since I have more than enough prestige I will buy one, giving me the option to quickly finish off forts/strongpoints when needed. The northwest is essentially unusable till the Maxim Gorky I is silenced.3 para slots are nice for the planed encirclement, but with Gustav taking a lot of slots I will only use 2. I will swap one Do 217E for a Ju 88A due to its better naval attack.



Turn 1: Once 60th Strongpoint in the north is taken out it should be fairly easy to complete an eastern encirclement, it is brought down to 1 HP. Both Gustavs take out the 49th Fort in the east. Concentrated attacks from a Do 217, 1.Pioniere, artillery and the 88 take out the NE fortification (63rd Strongpoint).



Turn 2: Some air attacks and a BT-7 attacks in the east. LaGG-3 fighter shot down. Gustav with 2 recons nearly took out a 67th Strongpoint by itself – 9 damage. Encircled most of the Soviet units in the east with the help of the Fallschirmjäger and aux infantry together with a StuG paving the way for tanks in the south and closing the pocket there. Yak-1 shot down.



Turn 3: Rain, capturing the first units in the pocket, Kamyschly occupied, Gustav hitting Maxim Gorky I for 2. 6.Fallschirmjäger moving onto Chernaya river.



Turn 4: Mekensia captured, NW part of the map encircled after controlling the swamp to the north of Inkerman and the split off SdKfz 232 controlling the port.



Turn 5: Heavy air attacks, at least 3 Soviet fighters and 1 fighter-bomber left, 2 fighters shot down, third damaged as was the fighter-bomber. Defenders of Belbek captured. First tank reached the south of Sapun Gora and a minefield there.



Turn 6: Last fighter and fighter-bomber shot down, AAs heading east to destroy fortifications. Patrol Boat bombed, paving the way for an amphibious landing around the center supply hex.



Turn 7: Split 4.Fallschirmjäger back in the air. Slowly trying to force my way past Sapun Gora in the south, a Pionier would have been helpful for the mines. Patrol boat sunk, SdKfz 232 in landing craft.



Turn 8: SdKfz 232 lands at the supply hex. Breakthrough in the south achieved, Fallschirmjäger drop to seal the pocket, most likely a suicide mission.



Turn 9: Soviets reopened the pocket – as expected, my forces took some losses, closed it again. Starting cleanup. Final unit in the north destroyed, only fortifications left.



Turn 10: Still small counterattacks which reopened the pocket and it was resealed again. Sapun Gora occupied.



Turn 11: AA guarding Nikolayevka captured, Inkerman occupied.



Turn 12: Bypassing Sevastopol in the south, sadly I have to take out the AA guarding the supply point in Sevastopol – 1 HP left, the other one is encircled. All remaining units outside of Sevastopol encircled after cutting the supply from Sevastopol.



Turn 13: AA in Sevastopol destroyed, Light Cruiser sunk, port and supply hex occupied – all Soviet units encircled.



Turn 14: Fortifications and the lonely AT gun in the SE finally cleared.



Turn 15: Maxim Gorky II under fire from Gustav.



Turn 16: Rain, Fallschirmjäger drop onto the westernmost airfield. Only 3 fortified victory hexes left, there is enough firepower to take them out on the last turn.


Turn 17: The end... All victory hexes occupied, it took both Gustavs to clear them in the end.


Ending prestige: 51.500 – (+8.100 including around 400 replacements), after repairs: 50.040 (+6.265)


Nice map with a new and fun toy, Gustav. Despite trying to use the Gustavs only when really needed they saw some heavy action due to the large number of hard to crack fortifications. But at least I was able to use the aux Gustav much less than the bought one – 393 XP for the aux vs. 736 XP for the bought. The 88 together with a Pionier (for the bonus) is a decent bunker buster. In the end the only unit not captured/destroyed was the 61st Strongpoint in the NW. With some more care/planning I think that all strongpoints can be destroyed.