Slitherine

I will have more time next week, than I can show it live. Not the Brückenpioniere though, because they are not necessary and I want to have no excess complexity in my battle plan. They were one of the backup plans I had in mind.

And yeah at Manstein the area around the fortification is a death zone, I tried to send in Oleh Dir from the southwest and got him instantly killed (the train and HQ fortress can knock him out in one go). Same on the eastern side. Tanks going in there have a bad time and in the open the big fortress has a chance for a one shot kill I think. Moreover the strategic bombers do not have enough punsh to do a significant amount of suppression. In short the attack needs a lot of preparation

braccada wrote:I will have more time next week, than I can show it live. Not the Brückenpioniere though, because they are not necessary and I want to have no excess complexity in my battle plan. They were one of the backup plans I had in mind.

And yeah at Manstein the area around the fortification is a death zone, I tried to send in Oleh Dir from the southwest and got him instantly killed (the train and HQ fortress can knock him out in one go). Same on the eastern side. Tanks going in there have a bad time and in the open the big fortress has a chance for a one shot kill I think. Moreover the strategic bombers do not have enough punsh to do a significant amount of suppression. In short the attack needs a lot of preparation

Interesting. Have you tried multiple strategic bombers? Hopefully you could reduce the ammo count to 1, but, at this early point your bombers might not be strong enough for that.

Sturmpanzers could also be useful. I don't like their ammo count but their ability to move in from a safe distance & then fire could be useful depending on your approach.

Another quick random thought is this. Could you dangle some weak units as target bait? If you advance 3 units at once (with the third being the strongest unit and the one which will do the attacking) hopefully the AI will target the weaker units with the ranged fire. Since the train & fort could take out a unit in one turn, ideally you would advance in a manner such that the bait units would be in range of one gun but not both. Then you could use green replacements to hold on for another turn while your strongest unit goes to work. Not quite sure if the map would allow this strategy - there might not be enough room. I'm looking forward to seeing how you solve this puzzle. I have to agree, at this level, you have to plan your attack very carefully.

I'd recommend the strategic bombers because of their ability to strip ammo rather than for their ability to suppress. This isn't affected by unit strength and because 15 to 17 strong units are so dangerous, it becomes even more valuable to reduce the amount of fire you have to take.

Having said that I have never played at more than +2 strength and 80% prestige, so I can't guarantee anything beyond - "This might work"

Ok Quick Update:

I finished Lillehammer this past weekend, and last night busted through Narvik...Unfortunately I forgot to bring my write up to work today and so I will need to type up tomorrow...Hopefully...

Here is what I am facing...
Barely finishing with 385 in prestige after force surrendering as much stuff as I can.

So I am about to increase the difficulty by increasing the size strength of their army to +2, which is just going to be killer...

Just having the enemy with 1 extra strength point made them a lot more aggressive. Now I am going to +2 Strength?

This is looking more and more unfeasible, but I will stick with it as it is what I laid out and will attempt to go as far as I can.

My plan is to continue building as large an army as I can, I still have 2 Pz1B's that I will upgrade, but want to wait to see if I get a decent 1st hero, I am not sure, as it may be a while, as it is hard to get kills on these units.

I figure I will try and attempt Eben-Emael this weekend after I do some research, but I am starting to wrap my mind around more and more Marginal Victory's as I think constant Decisive's may just be too costly.

I have also been thinking that I will take the French and British sides on this level, and which ever one finishes with me going to Dunkirk and gives me the best heroes will be the keeper.

I cannot imagine doing 1939 on the ultimate difficulty, but I am sure someone has tried.

I guess since I have time today I will type up some Guderian and Manstein progress reports.

TSPC37730 wrote:

braccada wrote:I will have more time next week, than I can show it live. Not the Brückenpioniere though, because they are not necessary and I want to have no excess complexity in my battle plan. They were one of the backup plans I had in mind.

And yeah at Manstein the area around the fortification is a death zone, I tried to send in Oleh Dir from the southwest and got him instantly killed (the train and HQ fortress can knock him out in one go). Same on the eastern side. Tanks going in there have a bad time and in the open the big fortress has a chance for a one shot kill I think. Moreover the strategic bombers do not have enough punsh to do a significant amount of suppression. In short the attack needs a lot of preparation

Interesting. Have you tried multiple strategic bombers? Hopefully you could reduce the ammo count to 1, but, at this early point your bombers might not be strong enough for that.

Sturmpanzers could also be useful. I don't like their ammo count but their ability to move in from a safe distance & then fire could be useful depending on your approach.

Another quick random thought is this. Could you dangle some weak units as target bait? If you advance 3 units at once (with the third being the strongest unit and the one which will do the attacking) hopefully the AI will target the weaker units with the ranged fire. Since the train & fort could take out a unit in one turn, ideally you would advance in a manner such that the bait units would be in range of one gun but not both. Then you could use green replacements to hold on for another turn while your strongest unit goes to work. Not quite sure if the map would allow this strategy - there might not be enough room. I'm looking forward to seeing how you solve this puzzle. I have to agree, at this level, you have to plan your attack very carefully.

I found it works well to bring a strong tank in the southwest and dangle another strong one in the east within range backed by a sturmpanzer to prevent follow-up attacks. The forts try to do prestige damage rather than destroy individual units, so they'll opt to shoot at the next available 12-strength tank rather than gang up on a single one iirc, or Oleh Dir who's very cheap and in the forest.

The fortress on Modlin should also be heavily weakened by your southwest force on arrival before it has a chance to fire a single shot, leaving only one 17-strength fort and the train.

Need to coordinate southeast and southwest to arrive together, still I was able to finish with two turns remaining so plenty of time for staging. I actually found Modlin to be one of the easier ones in 39 on Manstein.

Good point about the max prestige damage. In my test I sent in single units to test the waters and they got insta killed. So yeah that should work. Only downside is they achieve their goal of doing max prestige damage this way It think it is still a net win with the extra victory hexes though.

Still I want to do it with minimal (prestige) damage, but in the end you have to send in the ground forces. There is no way around that. Especially the train does not care about the bombing at all...

Nuts!

Forgot my notes again today, but I opened up 1940 to write down my army into importing into 1940...

The Good News is I finally received my first SE tank. Pz3F...ok...

I have 500 prestige to consider replacements and upgrades...this is where I need your help.

I have 10 Infantry 3 without a star 7 with a star...
Seeing the next map...my thinking is to place 3.7cm Pak and 88 at 2 deployment hexes next to the fort...(My thinking is to use these harder hitting units to help take out the stationary forts, especially since they start out with no ammo. (Maybe I should purchase another 88?) Thoughts?

But, I think having a Fallschimjaeger to drop in the area would be wise...should I use my limited income to pay full price for Fallschimjaeger, or to upgrade current unit to Fallschimjaeger? Which one? Green unit, 1 star unit, Oleh Dir?

3 tanks...2 Pz1B's...1 Pz38(t) (Albert Kerscher)
I do not have near enough to upgrade all of them, should I wait to upgrade once I receive first hero? Upgrade 1 now? Which one? Normally I would upgrade Albert Kerscher to Pz4D, but I think he is pretty good for now, so I think maybe my Pz1B that does not even have Iron Cross 2nd Class.
That way he has an opportunity to build up more kills and experience.

There are only 3 planes in this scenario so...I am thinking to just bring 2 Fighter's (instead of 3), 2 Fighter Bombers, 2 Henkels, and my +3 Att Ju-87B...maybe this is too many, but I want to safely rain on the enemy, and attempt to prevent them from reloading after the first round.

I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks

Remember that if you can somehow park 3 units next to the fort at the end of your turn, it won't be able to resupply. This would make not even attacking it at all on turn 1 an option if that fort starts with no ammo. You could focus on the others instead. Even if the fort does resupply, it won't be able to attack in that turn. In that case, make sure you have a strategic bomber on hand for suppression on turn 2. In fact, once you've taken the objective hex, could you just simply move away? The remaining forts can't chase you, so, as long as none of your units are next to them, they can't hurt you. Not sure about spawning though. Admittedly, I've never tried this strategy. Instead, I've always just taken all of the forts out and then moved on.

The key IMO to this scenario is mobility. You have to be able to get to all of your objectives in time in order to take them - including the southern most one. That has always been the hardest part of this scenario for me. Don't forget that there is an AA unit there, so, if you decide to attack there with your air units there may be a cost.

I would consider upgrading the weak Pz1B first. Otherwise, it would almost be limited to just playing a bystander role. In fact, if you don't upgrade the unit, I'd consider leaving it on your bench instead.

I think the 2 fighters would be enough because the enemy air units are so weak. Your Bf110's can help with mop up work. Don't forget to upgrade them to the D versions for the extra range. Good luck!

Super Hard Army importing into 1940
33 units total (I had 46 in Manstein and 43 in Field Marshall)
506 in prestige (This is just crazy small, but it is what I have)

8 Infantry: (I see myself buying 1 to 3 more to help round out the force I am working with, especially at least 1 Fallschimjaeger and maybe 2 more based on heroes awarded.)
2 regular Inf both with 1 star experience.
6 Gerbisjager’s 3 with 0 Stars experience and 3 with 1 star only Oleh Dir has a hero.
It is hard to build up infantry and I see myself happy if I can get any of them to 2 stars and will use them to get at least 2 stars and 1 hero in 1940.

3 Tanks
1 Pz 38(t)a that is Albert Kerscher that I will eventually upgrade to Pz4 once I have enough prestige.
2 Pz1B’s with 1 stars of experience (1 has Iron Cross 2nd Class, the other does not, the one that does not will become a Pz4D to help kill soft units and hopefully get a good 1st hero.)
My goal is to use capturable tanks to round out my tank army, but mostly selling any that get a lousy 1st hero as there are so many tanks I will be awarded as SE’s and captured throughout the playthrough.

2 Recon
2 stars experience. The other has no stars. I will try to use these to help complete surround, suppress, surrender and hope to keep them around to continue doing this for years to come.

2 AT’s
1 3.7cm Pak with 1 star of experience.
1 Panzerjaeger with 0 stars.
I will work strictly with these, and see myself buying 1 more Panzerjaeger to help build up some AT’s for future use.

8 artys
All have towed artillery have 2 stars of experience 2 Sturmpanzers with 1 star, 1 Polish Arty, 5 other 10.5cm artys. (1 with +1 Att hero)
(I will buy 1 more Sturmpanzer eventually and probably 1 more 10.5cm at some point, unless I get some awesome 1st heroes that make new seem ludicrous.)

1 AA
1 8.8cm Flak with 1 Star, I see myself buying 1 more towed, and 2 Mobile AA’s to help chew up enemy airforce before I attack with my limited planes.

3 Fighters
2 with 1 star and 1 with no stars. These are the limit for my Fighter purchases as I will be awarded with various heroed fighters that I will use to help round out my air defense and attack.

4 Tac Bombers
1 Recon Rudel with 1 star just saving to get Uber.
1 +3 Att 1 star JU-87B
Helmut Lent Bf-110C 1 Star
1 Green Bf-110C with 0 stars
I may buy 1 more Junkers to help rain death, but may just stay with these.

2 Strat Bombers
2 Henkels 1 with 2 stars of Experience other with 0 Stars. (This is it)

I plan on using these as my core and will be buying 10-12 more units in 1940, but expect focus to be on building up what I already have hoping I can get to 2 stars.

I was awarded an SE Pz3F at start of Eben Emael with 506 in prestige. This is anemic, that I hope to build up stronger amount for future replacements.
My hope is to have just under 5000 by the end of 1940, but will settle for 2500, we shall see.

My thoughts I have been contemplating around my study of Eben Emael.
Place 88 Flak and either 3.7cm Pak or Panzerjaeger up buy Eben Emael. (Thoughts about 3.7cm Pak is that I can attack while they are without ammo and build up kills and possibly get 1st hero or maybe even 2nd star, Panzerjaeger thoughts are that it would be a chance to build up experience since it is at 70’s for experience if I pay for their replacements.)
Buy 1 Fallschimjaeger to drop and help around those forts, or hold back 1 slot to place one artillery in one of those deployment areas that once I move a unit I will be able to place in. (Not sure which to do, so thoughts would be appreciated)
7 units in the air is a given to help solidify the control of the air as well as prevent the fort from reloading.
4 other artillery around primary deployment.
Pz4d, SE Pz3F, SE Gebirsjaeger, 2nd Recon 8 Rad (want to use this to rush map and prevent them from reloading more units).

3 more units
Trying to decide between Pz1B to hopefully get 1st hero, Oleh Dir to help secure areas needed in the South, what about 2 green Gebirsjaeger’s or any of my regular infantry including 1 with a truck that would allow me to move quicker.

Thoughts about last 3 units would be appreciated and any of the questions about possible deployments.

Thanks!

Pioneers or Paras?
Pioneers might be more versatile than FJ in the long run and because you have a decent artillery park you can cause enough suppression that you won't notice the low initiative of the pioneers. They also do mine clearing (though green pios are just as good) and they do survive a bit better but at the price of being slow. Oleh Dir makes a good pioneer because his two strengths overcome pio weaknesses, and doesn't need transport which keeps down the cost of reinforcements. I think it comes down to lower risk methodical play = pio, higher risk more aggressive play = FJ. Having said that, this is a good one to test the FJ, and I might learn some tips for using them, so go with the FJ!

Tanks
I'm not sure that 1 star is enough to justify upgrading a 1B when you have so little prestige. You'd probably be better fielding a new IVD and selling the 1B. The 38t is OK for a bit longer and the hero set is too good not to upgrade. Maybe aim for upgrade when the IVE is available so you get the improvement in protection as well as hitting power?.

shawkhan2 wrote:I would say the forces are about the same in point value except I do have better armor right now. I have been lucky getting SE units which are promptly sold off when not armor. I have tried desperately to keep my casualties low as the prestige accumulations are so pitiful. Seldom take more than one or two damage on my units. I admit I also had to take a marginal victory(my only one ) at Modlin. I have an attack hero on one SE tank and a movement hero on one Gebirgs. That is it so far.
Do you think it possible to go beyond 1942 playing with these handicaps? I see no way I can afford to upgrade to the better PzIVs and FW190 to name just two otherwise very necessary unit types. Guess we will see.

Hey Buddy,

I had absolutely no time to play at all this weekend, almost all of my free time this weekend, which was not much, was dealing with the Tournament.

That does not mean that I did not spend anytime thinking about this scenario....

Did you try it shawkhan2? If so would you mine giving me a breakdown of the forces you ended up bringing, and any detail around success or lack there of

Thanks

From what I have learned excessively playing in the early months of the war during the tournament, I really came to love Fallschirmjäger to annihilate any western infantry until the advent of British heavy infantry. I never noticed that before. On the downside, there is no cheap upgarde path from German infantry to Fallschirmjägers. But when buying new infantry, htey are just as cheap. Also, 88s give so much bang for the buck in AT mode. Dragging any Panzer I around seems too much trouble to me. Even with a hero these are nearly useless. A Panzer II can at least become a Flammpanzer.

Oh My GOODNESS!!!

Just started my Eben Emael playthrough after sweating this for way too long...

I no longer care the outcome of this scenario, I am keeping this one for sure as I was just awarded the absolute best hero on my 88...my only 88 so far...+1 Movement...

No matter what happens now this is the keeper...If you have never received a +1 Movement on an 88 than you have never fully enjoyed the Grand Campaign. IMHO

Ok,

Quick Update for me:
Eben Emael is in the can, actually was pretty easy considering how long I sweated it.

But now that brings me to the next 3 missions where I received Marginal Victorys on each of them on Manstein...

Albert Canal
The Hague
Sedan

These are tough, and at this new difficulty level I am unsure if attempting a DV is worth the effort, and may instead concentrate on Marginal Victory for minimal damage...maximum kills, and continuing to build up precious experience.

I think I have built a nice measurement for deciding whether or not to pay for elite replacements or not, because I want to get to 2 stars.


If buying replacements costs more prestige than the amount of experience it costs...regular replacements...
If buying replacements is less than the amount of experience I lose...elite replacements...


I think this simple rule will help me going forward to preserve experience and prestige.,..

I have 548 in prestige and 20 units including 2 SE units...still waiting for another SE Tank, but at least I have 1 now.

I may buy a new Mobil AA, and I am debating between the 8 movement race or the more powerful SdKfz 7/1 that has a rof of 1.2 or 1.1...I forget

Anyway, it will be next week when I attempt this map...but here is what I would like from the forum...if anyone remembers...

How many planes do they have in Albert Canal...# of Fighters...# of Tac Bombers...# of Strat Bombers...?

How much prestige does one get for Decisive Victory and Marginal Victory for:
Albert Canal
The Hague
Sedan

I could earn like 120 in extra prestige if I go for the periphery hexes in Albert Canal, but what would be the prestige difference in going instead for the Decisive Victory?

Thanks for your guys help...I will try and type up AAR on Monday or Tuesday at work...

Blessings

goose_2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:23 pm . . .
How many planes do they have in Albert Canal...# of Fighters...# of Tac Bombers...# of Strat Bombers...?
. . .
How much prestige does one get for Decisive Victory and Marginal Victory for:
Albert Canal
The Hague
Sedan

From campaign.pzdat (edited) DV MV Loss. 0 means lose the GC
Albert Canal 500 300 0
The Hague 600 400 600
Sedan 2000 1600 0

. . .
From my Grander Campaign Upgrade in the AAR section:
Fighters=3, TB=5, Strat=1
Scen Kills
Inf, Tank, Recon, AT, Art, AA, Fort, Fig, TB, Strat, Total, Scen
26, 2, 0, 1, 3, 1, 8, 1, 2, 0, 44, Eben-Emael
34, 7, 1, 4, 3, 4, 0, 3, 5, 1, 62, Albert Canal
47, 6, 2, 7, 5, 5, 3, 2, 3, 0, 80, The Hague
19, 5, 2, 10, 8, 4, 2, 2, 2, 0, 54, Sedan
22, 11, 4, 8, 5, 6, 0, 2, 3, 2, 63, Maubeuge
29, 30, 3, 12, 5, 4, 0, 4, 3, 1, 91, Arras
15, 13, 5, 8, 1, 5, 0, 3, 2, 2, 54, Calais
25, 16, 3, 4, 5, 2, 0, 5, 2, 1, 63, Stonne
14, 12, 1, 7, 2, 3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 46, Wasssigny
25, 14, 2, 15, 5, 6, 0, 3, 3, 2, 75, Amiens
20, 12, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 43, Dunkirk
23, 10, 3, 10, 6, 7, 1, 4, 2, 1, 67, Reims
24, 7, 3, 12, 6, 7, 0, 1, 1, 0, 61, Dijon
20, 8, 2, 8, 4, 1, 19, 0, 0, 0, 62, Maginot Line

The fast 20mm is good because it can get almost anywhere but doesn't ht very hard, so you will still take hits. Since defensive fire is your best way to gain experience and kills, the ability to get into position is a plus, and every point preserved is one less replacement.
The 7/1 quad 20 hits harder (and has 120% RoF) so it's a good defensive unit against fighters and tac bombers due to the -5 close defence penalty. The down side is that it's harder to get it into position, so won't be providing protective fire quite so often.
I think it depends on your play style - fast attacking calls for the fast one to keep up, more methodical and you can use the slower 7/1. Hope for +1 range and +3 attack for this one.

Thanks for the 2 reply's...I ended up going into a deep dive on my 2 AAR's of this battle and based on information dalfreded and captain jack have provided I rethought this battle and tried a first day this morning to test things out...

My thoughts based on 1st Day test...redoing battle because with the 2 extra strength points enemy is a lot more aggressive than at other difficulty levels and I want to use that to my advantage...based on that...
My arty will be similar layout to what it was on my Manstein playthrough 6 in total...3 North and 3 South...
Based on Captainjack's input I see using Mobil AA as not feasible on this map or in current playthrough...at least for next 3 missions...too limited in their attack ability and I need more versatile units...so I will use my prestige to buy a 2nd 88 with truck...

I will proceed very slowly on this map and try to let enemy to come to me to their peril and secure the Marginal for Albert Canal, as I can earn more prestige by seizing side objectives than I can focusing on only the primary Objectives...
The Hague will go for the Decisive or the straight up loss as that allows for most prestige being garnered...this might make for an extremely creative playthrough.
The Sedan I will go for broke on this one securing the Decisive as that prestige boost is most important, especially at this level.

I forgot to bring my AAR so no type up on that one today...hopefully tom...

For today my thoughts are Albert Canal i will bring 6 inf...6 artys..3 tanks...2 AA/AT's...2 Fighters...2 Fighter Bomber's...1 recon

I will probably play around with this mission occasionally this week as I am more scared about Liege and Return to Kishinev to even wrap my mind around trying those crazy maps...

I'm almost done with GC West so if anything I'm going to re-play it on Ultimate. Looking forward to your write-ups goose for Liege and beyond.

I stopped my Afrika Korps on Manstein because I didn't like the what-if scenarios, unlike the excellent what-ifs in GC West. It also seemed to get easier after Gazala Line in a linear slope. Afrika Korps on Ultimate would be interesting but I don't see a way to get the mandatory MV on Gazala Line with -5 turns and a crappy core.

Ultimate scares me...the part I hate the most is the 5 less rounds...that just kills it for me...I keep looking at the Liege map and my units that I have to take to seize all territory in just 13 rounds...I am not sure how I can do it unless there is nothing standing in my way...I will try it blind once but doubt I will be able to do it first time may take 3 times like other scenarios have taken...
Right now I am trying the nut of Albert Canal...I have decided to focus on slow steady progress destroying units when and how I can but not rushing forward or taking damage as much as I can avoid...the goal is to build up more units to 1 star...those that have 1 star to 2 stars or first hero...
I am only on Day 3...and I am finding each day to take around 20-30 minutes...

That is what I love so much about this game...because there are so many ways to tweak the difficulty and each scenario has its own tricks or secrets it is like a puzzle that you know you can solve but you want to always find the best way to solve it...so much fun...

Albert Canal and Arras are two of the most difficult battles to get a Decisive victory. Took me three tries for each in order to get the decisive w/o excessive casualties. Double Rommel is a killer. I play both branches of the campaign and find the French path is much easier on the pocketbook. Going to be interesting to see how far we get.