Slitherine

+4 attack is nice. Those are good stats, of course it could get better but much worse too. Like +1 spotting and +1 attack.

That is why i always reload the automatic save if i had the hero during my turn and the hero was actually useless for the unit. If the hero was awarded during the AI turn, then i just have to live with it.

Heroes i refuse: defense hero on towed artiller/AA. Spotting hero on everything except fighters. Initiative heroes on bombers. Movement heroes on everything except AA or artillery.

I've played through the GCs several times. Here are some of the more interesting hero combinations I've encountered.

Stuka with +7 attack. Fabulous for shattering end game allied tank battalions.
Stuka with +7 defense. Absolutely wonderful AAA and arty busters. Rarely took losses from AAA.
Mountain infantry with +2 move. Crushing in Norway.
Panzerwerfer with +2 range. devastating.
Engineer with +4 move. No more staging within range of enemy fortifications, just sweep in and root them out.
Tank with +2 spotting. (Tiger +2 spot is brutally potent element in a counter attack.)

The more you play the more you'll see these. I don't reload to get the heroes I want (perhaps I should). I generally play with what I get.

Some suggestions for upgrading based on heroes.
Engineers with +1 move can be a big boost.
Fighters with high defense upgrade to 262s.
Fighters with high attack, keep at 190s.
Tanks with high attack, upgrade to Tigers (compensates for weak gun).
Tanks with high defense, upgrade to Panthers (compensates for weak armor).
Arty with high defense change from towed to SP (like panzerwerfer or nebelwerfer, so suddenly Soviet air attacks on the sp arty don't do much damage).

Thanks for the advice good to know.
I have been accepting what I have got in terms of my heros, the ones that make me crazy are spotting on arty.
I am happy to have a range hero on one of my AA units, I have yet to get one on one of my many artys.
I am hoping that the range hero 88 would also get a movement hero.
We shall see.
Any of the heroes that the game gives you can get multiple heroes too, that will really shake things up.
But my SE inf was my first, so it will have a soft spot in my heart for I believe the remainder of this playthrough, at least.

+1 Initiative on a Stuka isn't exactly a cause for celebration, either!
I've been playing PGForever adapted to Panzer Corps and I have so many +1 spotting infantry units that it's hard to believe.
The worst one is the 88 which got an initiative hero in AT mode instead of the range hero I'd have got in AA mode. While 4 range 88 and 128s are very good, an experienced 7/2 with 3 range is a very nice AA unit and would have made a useful upgrade.
At least the 3 range, 3* 21cm nebelwerfer has done an excellent job of flattening Soviet soft units. Even in the snow it was taking 4 points off heavily entrenched guards.

I choose to neglect the first Rudel alltogether and keep it in reserve. Have other Stuka units instead gather all the experience. Then deploy first Rudel in Minsk to get the second, but again not using it in battle.
Then in next scenario sell first Rudel.
Reason is low defense value which will one day attract an Allied fighter and cost too much to repair, even if upgrading it to Me.110.
Spotting done by 2 Recon units and +spotting values of Kerschers panzer (and received +1 spot value to second panzer ).

Ok I got my 2nd multiple hero in Demyansk Pocket.
It shocked me because I was thinking it wouldn't come until I got another unit near 800 kills, and I wasn't even close on any other unit.
Then Boom!
I get a 2nd hero on my Uber Rudel
A +1 Defense Hero, this makes his attack +9 and Defense +10 +1 Movement
541 kills (Ok I was wrong about the number of kills)
It got me thinking, what would be the best hero for Uber Rudel, since he is an attack dog and defense king, the only thing that makes sense to me is another movement hero.
Am I thinking about Rudel wrong or is that what other peoples experience is?
Thanks for the feedback.

Hi Goose_2,

I just got a +1 initiative on a stuka - moderately handy when attacked by early biplanes but otherwise only slightly better than +1 range on a truck! All the other heroes are OK - in descending order my current preferences are:

Extra defence - increases your chances of surviving against experienced AA and late war fighters. A close call with...
Extra attack - I had a +3 once and it was a bit of a waste as the max kill percentage is 81%, and you are probably there at or over the limit at +9 already . But then again +3 or +6 means you can shoot up ISU152s; if Rudel flies an HS129 it can make a difference against soft targets as well, and it may help against naval targets; and if you fly a 110 or 410, your chances of doing massive damage on against unescorted bombers just went up.
Every time you just make the airfield or just get to a target you can appreciate the +1move so it's quite good, but spotting isn't too bad, especially if you have a 110 or 410 with 2 spotting to start with.

I think I'd prefer having defense heroes on Rudel. That's one of the few units I like to overstrength because I want to "one shot" the most threatening tanks. It's expensive to replace any losses from AA & those annoying T-90's, so, the higher the defense, the better.

Ok I am opening up this fun thread again because I just received a truly useless multiple hero on my Heinrich Bar hero in Simferopol.

1st: I was surprised to get a 2nd hero as I only have 376 kills attributed to him. I thought I needed at least 4-500 and I have so many other units with significant more kills under their belts.

2nd: Is there ever a reason to get excited about a spotting hero? Maybe I am thinking about it all wrong, I mean it is nice to see what lies ahead, but it always feels like such a waste. Are there other thoughts on this?

3rd: I do not have any units with a 3rd Multiple Hero yet, but I feel I am getting close now that my SE Inf. units has received his Knights Cross with Oak Leaves after taking out 1300 kills. Since I have +4 attack so far on it I am not sure if I want another Attack hero or Defense Hero. (I certainly do not want a Spotting Hero, that would certainly be anti climactic.)

I like spotting heroes as I feel they replace recon units, especially later in the game, when your recon vehicles have no chance of surviving contact with the enemy. Seeing the AI before it can see you is a great boon.

While playing MPC35-39 I ended up with two initiative heroes on a stuka. Totally, utterly useless! I disbanded it.

I've had a recent run of getting +1 spotting on recon units, which is definitely useful, especially in Nikki's mods and AK where scouting is important. In most other versions I agree that a few spot heroes on infantry or tanks can allow you to replace recon with more useful combat units.

This game should have a Storch recon plane.
Way it is now i use the rudel scout as a BF-110 for recon purposes. Later in the war with experience he can do some dmg to ground units as well.

Adding an extra unit to the equipment file is not too difficult and there is some good guidance on how to do it (I'd post a link but can't remember where to look right now).

There are some good Storch icons around - try the Scenario design threads - and the Allied Corps Lysander stats and animations would be a good start. There's also an icon for a secret agent around from late last year if you want to create a scenario with an objective of dropping off or collecting someone.

Opening up this fun little thread again to ask this great forum another question that had me pondering this morning on the way to work.

I am still waiting for my 3rd hero on one unit. My BA SE Inf with 2 heros that have a cumulative +4 attack status has close to 1500 kills now is still waiting. I think I may need to be in the 1943 Campaign before units will be eligible for a 3rd hero in the Grand Campaign. Is that correct? I know it is based on the number of kills but I get the feeling the year you are in the Campaign has something to do with it as well. Is that off base or am I on to something there?

My 2nd question is: You have to have over 1000 kills in the Grand Campaign to get a 3rd hero. Has anyone ever acquired a 3rd hero on an artillery unit in the Grand Campaign, if so with what type of artillery unit.
I am starting to get some artillery units awarded with their Iron Cross 1st Class which means they have acquired 400 kills, but I have yet to get a 2nd hero on any of them. I cannot imagine getting any of them above 1000 kills, it just seems so daunting. Which artillery seems to garner the most kills quickest and has that ever garnered you a 3rd hero on any of them?

Thanks for being such a great group of people that seems to have all the answers to the myriad of complex questions we players can bring to this wonderful game.

And as always...Stay Lutheran My Friends.

goose_2 wrote:I am still waiting for my 3rd hero on one unit. My BA SE Inf with 2 heros that have a cumulative +4 attack status has close to 1500 kills now is still waiting. I think I may need to be in the 1943 Campaign before units will be eligible for a 3rd hero in the Grand Campaign. Is that correct? I know it is based on the number of kills but I get the feeling the year you are in the Campaign has something to do with it as well. Is that off base or am I on to something there?

No idea why you don't have a 3rd hero yet, but, it does take awhile sometimes. I thought you were eligible for the 3rd hero once your unit got to 800 kills - or whenever you get the Knight's cross. My suggestion is to keep using the unit to maximize your chances.

goose_2 wrote:My 2nd question is: You have to have over 1000 kills in the Grand Campaign to get a 3rd hero. Has anyone ever acquired a 3rd hero on an artillery unit in the Grand Campaign, if so with what type of artillery unit.
I am starting to get some artillery units awarded with their Iron Cross 1st Class which means they have acquired 400 kills, but I have yet to get a 2nd hero on any of them. I cannot imagine getting any of them above 1000 kills, it just seems so daunting. Which artillery seems to garner the most kills quickest and has that ever garnered you a 3rd hero on any of them?

I'm in early '44 in my latest go around at the GC. In my oversized corps, I have a total of 10 artillery units. 4 of these have 2 heroes, 5 have 1 hero and a SU122 I captured in '42 has no heroes. Strangely - and annoyingly - I have totally whiffed every single time in terms of snagging a range hero. The hard part with artillery units is that they often suppress & don't kill - but, you need kills in order to have a chance to get a hero. I think if collecting artillery heroes is your goal, the best units are the 15 cm artillery unit or the '41 or '42 Nebelwefer units. The 15 cm artillery unit has decent ammo & enough punch to do some damage but isn't hurt too much by ROF shot reduction. The Nebelwefer units rack up kills by devastating infantry & other soft units. Both of these units in my latest corps have two heroes each. I was delighted to pick up a +3 attack hero on my Nebelwerfer in '43. Additionally, I like to overstrength my artillery units. More shots leads to more chances for kills in less time. As for the larger question of getting to a third artillery hero, I don't really know. I've never seen it. I've only seen three heroes on infantry & tank units so far, and those are uncommon. If I do get that far I imagine that it will be so late in the campaign that the overall benefit will be very limited. Knowing my luck it'd be a +1 spotting hero anyway.

What's even worse is AA units, and worse still is strategic bombers. AA units get the kills, but, there's a very finite amount of targets in range and therefore limited opportunities for kills. I beat the odds the other day as my +1 range 128 mm AA unit collected a second hero, alas it was but a +1 attack... As for strategic bombers, about the only way you'll get significant numbers of kills is by going after shipping - which is very scenario dependent. Once you get your first one, the second will be almost impossible. If you get one you don't want, you might as well disband the unit. Experience comes easy for strat bombers and artillery since they can always bomb or shell something.

As always, good luck & happy gaming.

Ok I am opening up this fun little doozy of a thread to report.

Still waiting for the elusive 3rd hero on my BA SE Inf. Unit
I am in Stalingrad Ruins and have over 1600 kills so must be getting close.

But the real reason is because I was just awarded what I think is the best possible 2nd hero on Oleh Dir
+3 Defense

With Oleh's ability to travel anywhere, 1st shot just about anything and cheap Overstrength this now makes him almost indestructible.

I am holding him back and saving him for when I build up more units with 2 heroes.

Any disagreement with best hero possible for Oleh Dir?

I thought so...
Super happy
I just had to report

Finally received 3rd hero for my SE Inf and unfortunately it is a kind of let down.
+1 Defense.

After waiting so long to finally get one and it is a +1 anything is a little disappointing, at least it was not a spotting hero.

I am just happy to finally get a third hero, even though I received one first on Uber Rudel who now has a total attack of +10 and total Defense of +10. Uber indeed.

Final stats when receiving my 3rd hero.
Experience 398
Kills 1793
Losses 140

Units destroyed
130 Inf; 25 tanks; 4 recons; 22 AT's; 13 artys; 12 AA's; 3 Forts, and that single Destroyer.

This has been fun and a little scary that I asked this question over a year ago and have finally received my first 3rd multiple hero in the Grand Campaign.
I guess it really illustrates that as I approach 2000 hours on this great game I am still most fascinated by the multiplayer.

I will finish the Grand Campaign though. I must persevere.

Ironic my first was Infantry to. Rudel way easy get heroes on.

My favourite to date Fallshirmjager +2 defence +3 movement +3 initiative +3 attack, clears bunkers like knife through butter, eats infantry for breakfast, for fun jumps into stupid places and kills lots, usually hoisting victory flags 7 flags to date.

He also has 2 buddies that like jumping to they both have movement bonuses.

Proud of my latest bomber he is +2 attack, 660 kills for 80 lost Experience 493 which for strat bomber best I had should get second hero soon.

Current Rudel is 525 experience 2030 kills for 40 lost, +11 attack +9 defence +1 spotting +1 movement.

I have lovely 88 with +1 range +3 attack.

That part fun for me you never know who will get what, depending what and what you get defines lot about play style. Each seprate play through there is always few units that become favourites.

All I need now for my current play through is for someone design a The eagle has landed scenario and my Fallshirmjager have Winston Churchill dead or captured and my army will win haha. Guille I need an Irishman for eagle has landed scenario. Yes it has Donald Sutherland in it to.

Actually special forces bunch scenarios would be different and fun.

Opening up my oldest thread to bring some sad, sad news.

My BA SE Inf that was the one I had since 2nd mission in Poland and I had babied and trained and brought on every single mission, has passed on.

I had 3 heroes adding up to +4 Att and +1 Def in total, but when you bring your inf units into 44 they can be very vulnerable, and I was way to aggressive. and it cost me.
2 artys and 2 overstrength units for the enemy took him out in the 3rd mission Narva.

I have 2 other units with 3 heroes. Uber Rudel and an SE Tiger, but it was losing my baby that brings me hear today.

I am still waiting for the ultimate medal/honor as Uber Rudel has destroyed over 2500 kills.

Please do not spoil the surprise, but I have to be close.

I just have received my 3rd hero for my SS SdKfz 233 unit, currently battling in September 1943, at Kremenchug.
These 3 heroes all happen to be + def units, now totalling a +7... so have a +7 defense value, which never happened to me before...