Slitherine

I have two complete games, and one presently ongoing game. Is this the proper amount, or should I have more challenges at present?

You might want to get the one w Deeter started, he is real slow

Sorry about that, but the weekend is almost here and I can pick up the pace.

Deeter

kilroy (Seleucids) 42/54 Win

batesmotel (Pyrrhus) 62/55

I'm game for any challenges from those I haven't yet played too. PM me with the details and we can get to it!

gudin

I think I've played everyone. I count 3 wins to 4 losses...better than expected!!!!

TheGrayMouser(lysimachos) 52/62
vs
Morbio(Carthos) 68/66

Brutal battle, in the end the edge was the inherant superiority of pikes vs spears.

Batesmotel (Pyrrhus) 34/55 win
Morbio (Later Carthaginian) 66/66 lose

The Pyrrhic pikes were too much for the Carthaginian and Campanian spearmen even with a hill to defend. The game would have ended sooner except that the Carthaginian camp resisted being looted for 8 turns or more, initially with one LF and eventually with two pikes added. Note this was not a fortified camp!

Chris

batesmotel wrote:... the Carthaginian camp resisted being looted for 8 turns or more, initially with one LF and eventually with two pikes added. Note this was not a fortified camp!

batesmotel (Pyrrhic) - 47/55 (win)
gudin (Macedonians) - 56/56

Gudin's pike center blew up faster than my flanks but it looked like a close run for most of the game. Maybe Macedon will end up with a Pyrrhic dynasty instead of an Antigonid .

Chris

kilroy (Seleucids) 45/54 Win

gudin (Macedon) 56/54

batesmotel (Pyrrhic) - 56/55 Draw
TheGrayMouser (Lysimachid) - 63/62 Draw

Looked like TGM was going to win this with an overwhelming attack down from a hill on my left flank. Some fortuitous luck on our both of our last turns and capturing his camp ended it in a draw.

Chris

batesmotel wrote:batesmotel (Pyrrhic) - 56/55 Draw
TheGrayMouser (Lysimachid) - 63/62 Draw

Looked like TGM was going to win this with an overwhelming attack down from a hill on my left flank. Some fortuitous luck on our both of our last turns and capturing his camp ended it in a draw.

Chris

I can't believe he let you capture his camp! Tut, tut, tut

I always lose my camp. As a matter of fact, if you dont take it from me you have done something really wrong

Deeter (Ipsos Alliance) 24/58 vs. Grumblefish (Sparta) 69/66

The Spartans brought a bunch of MF to make up for their deficiency in cavalry and attempted a double envelopment with them. Both were defeated and the hoplites had no luck against the pikes. Like a true Spartan, the CnC came home on his shield rather than return home without it.

It seems that, despite being equal points, not armies are created equal. Mr. Fish has indicated trying to win with the Spartans is nearly impossible. I'm thinking for round two that we allow duplicate pike armies. Your thoughts? I'm also seeking suggestions for how round two match ups should be handled.

Deeter

deeter wrote: It seems that, despite being equal points, not armies are created equal. Mr. Fish has indicated trying to win with the Spartans is nearly impossible. I'm thinking for round two that we allow duplicate pike armies. Your thoughts? I'm also seeking suggestions for how round two match ups should be handled.

Aye, I'm having a terrible time with the Hellenic Spartans. In my opinion, Hellenic Sparta is the worst Hellenic Greek army list. I reckon it is also the worst of the four Spartan army lists. Still, I think the other Hellenic armies might fare better; some of them have pikes and lances, two crucial things that are lacking in the Hellenic Sparta list. Also, perhaps I am just not leading the Spartan army properly. Therefore, perhaps a change is not required; I would be happy to continue with a different Hellenic army list, or if they're all taken I'll field more medium infantry and choose the maps with the densest foliage.

The loss to Deeter was the worst I've had so far, as you can see by the points, but even in better rounds I never felt like victory was near. Part of that is obviously my own failing, but I'm sure I'd do better with the other lists. If my losses are the only reason for the change away from Hellenistic Greek armies, then I would rather just choose a different list. Which ones are still available? I'm sure I could do better with Athens, Achaea, or Elis. I have also had success in the past with the Later Hellenistic Spartan army (indeed, I had not used the ordinary Hellenistic Spartan army before this tournament). If the Later Hellenistic Spartans are acceptable, I'd be happy to continue with them; if they're too far outside the time period, then I'd be happy with one of the others.

Either way, I don't think the Hellenistic Greeks should throw in the towel just yet.

grumblefish wrote:

deeter wrote: It seems that, despite being equal points, not armies are created equal. Mr. Fish has indicated trying to win with the Spartans is nearly impossible. I'm thinking for round two that we allow duplicate pike armies. Your thoughts? I'm also seeking suggestions for how round two match ups should be handled.

Aye, I'm having a terrible time with the Hellenic Spartans. In my opinion, Hellenic Sparta is the worst Hellenic Greek army list. I reckon it is also the worst of the four Spartan army lists. Still, I think the other Hellenic armies might fare better; some of them have pikes and lances, two crucial things that are lacking in the Hellenic Sparta list. Also, perhaps I am just not leading the Spartan army properly. Therefore, perhaps a change is not required; I would be happy to continue with a different Hellenic army list, or if they're all taken I'll field more medium infantry and choose the maps with the densest foliage.

The loss to Deeter was the worst I've had so far, as you can see by the points, but even in better rounds I never felt like victory was near. Part of that is obviously my own failing, but I'm sure I'd do better with the other lists. If my losses are the only reason for the change away from Hellenistic Greek armies, then I would rather just choose a different list. Which ones are still available? I'm sure I could do better with Athens, Achaea, or Elis. I have also had success in the past with the Later Hellenistic Spartan army (indeed, I had not used the ordinary Hellenistic Spartan army before this tournament). If the Later Hellenistic Spartans are acceptable, I'd be happy to continue with them; if they're too far outside the time period, then I'd be happy with one of the others.

Either way, I don't think the Hellenistic Greeks should throw in the towel just yet.

I think all the Hellenistic lists are actually on the late side for the Diadochi period. The Later Spartan list is the better one to correspond to the early successor lists down to 280 B.C. or so. (The Hellenistic Spartan list starts at 279 and the other ones are all contemporaneous with the Roman interventions in Greece after the Second Punic War in the 140's or so.) Not sure if it would be a better list or not for you to try playing.

Chris

batesmotel wrote:I think all the Hellenistic lists are actually on the late side for the Diadochi period. The Later Spartan list is the better one to correspond to the early successor lists down to 280 B.C. or so. (The Hellenistic Spartan list starts at 279 and the other ones are all contemporaneous with the Roman interventions in Greece after the Second Punic War in the 140's or so.) Not sure if it would be a better list or not for you to try playing.

Chris

Argh, I didn't even look at the dates, how stupid of me. However, in my defence, I will point out that the Later Sparta army list is particularly designed to reflect the Spartan army at the second battle of Mantineia (hence the light horse skirmishers and other, assorted savages).

Looking at the Later Sparta army list, I believe I can field a viable army. I can take 18 superior heavy infantry instead of 8, not to mention that my maximum number of HI is greatly increased (Hellenistic Sparta tops out at 24 Heavy Infantry; I am taking that right now). and I can take 6 (8 with allies) cavalry instead of 3. I can only take a maximum of 12 medium foot, but at the same time my selection is much better (impact swordsmen, heavy weapons, etc; Hellenic Sparta only gets Off. Sp. MF).

I could field a much better army with the Late list. Deeter, would you object if in the future I was to take the Late Sparta list? I will accept the current challenge awaiting me with my Hellenistic Sparta list.

EDIT: I should admit, however, that I'm feeling a little bit of confidence in my current round against Kilroy...

No objections from me. Anyone else object?

Deeter

deeter wrote:No objections from me. Anyone else object?

Deeter

It's fine by me as the one who pointed this out. I'm even willing to restart my game with Grumblefish if he wants to field them against me. (I think all I've done is to deploy so far.)

Chris