Slitherine

I've also used that ploy in reverse against aggressive Allied players, launch a couple of Italian GAR transports to screen the Regia Marina as they support the invasion of Greece. If the RN atttack, they only damage the transports and normally bump into the sub. Then they discover they are in range of the Luftwaffe based in Albania and wholesale slaughter begins.

If they don't attack then the GARs go to Crete as a garrison.

massina_nz wrote:I've also used that ploy in reverse against aggressive Allied players, launch a couple of Italian GAR transports to screen the Regia Marina as they support the invasion of Greece. If the RN atttack, they only damage the transports and normally bump into the sub. Then they discover they are in range of the Luftwaffe based in Albania and wholesale slaughter begins.

If they don't attack then the GARs go to Crete as a garrison.

Tricky.

I'll have remember that one.

Turn 28. February 22, 1941.

The Athens defenders hold on at 2-steps and Neil moves two air units and an "Egyptian" transport to Crete. Axis air hits the allied air bases on Crete inflicting 6 steps (total) but losing 5 steps (total) themselves. I moved an Italian infantry corps to invade Crete. I will not allow Neil to keep that base. That's the primary reason for invading Greece.

The build up for Barbarossa will begin next turn. I plan to build two additional armor corps, three mechanized corps and the rest infantry corps. I also will upgrade existing units.

Long range German bombers on Rhodes hit an RN BB squadron losing 1-step and inflicting 1-step of loss.

Turn 29. March 14, 1941 Axis.

Athens fell and Greece surrendered this turn. The fierce air battle of Crete continue with the RAF getting the worse of it. All this action is delaying my transition and build up for Russia; but it's got to be degrading his capability in the Med.

I purchased 2 armor corps and plan to buy 2 mechanized corps next turn. I can also begin the infantry and armor upgrades for existing units.

Turn 30. April 3, 1941 Axis.

It got too hot for the RAF in Crete and the booked out leaving it defended by two garrisons. Axis air and the Italian navy reduced the division (i.e., garrison) holding Herakion to 1-step and the Italian infantry corps there now did the rest.

Fixed defenses tech in Infantry make it to 99%. However; it turned out that that wasn't an issue for mechanized because they don't receive any benefit at level 2. Next turn is when I start the infantry builds. This turn I started rebasing air from the Balkans and armor upgrades and this will continue next turn.

Neil has been super aggressive as the allied player this early in the game. I do think I have inflicted enough losses on him to set the UK back a bit. However; this is somewhat offset by the lack of u-boat builds. So, the setback is probably not as large as I would like. My 3 u-boats did finish off the northern convoy and spotted another one (47 PP's) that just moved into their web. Back to Neil's aggressiveness. I think the biggest impact it's had on the axis is that their oil is not as high as I would like. However; air crews have gained a whole lot of experience that they normally wouldn't have. I should have a few quite turns before Barbarossa and go in with oil over 500.

Turn 31. April 23, 1941 Axis.

A quite turn for a change, which gave me the opportunity to redeploy units to the eastern front for the Barbarossa (4 turns from now). I will have 8 new builds arriving next turn for deployment. I'm having to use all my rail to redeploy my infantry units, which means air units have to fly to redeploy and that burns oil. I'll keep as much of that to a minimum as I can. I will try to rail as many bombers as I can to save the oil.

In the north Atlantic, the German u-boat fleet found and stopped another convoy. I used a bit of gamesmanship in my email to Neil subtly implying that there were more German u-boats about. Maybe it was too subtly or maybe, based on the observation Plaid made about Neil's focus on subs as the axis, that this statement reinforces what he already believes and he's out protecting against phantom wolfpacks. What do you think? Too subtle?

Turn 32. May 13, 1941.

Wow ... I guess with respect to German u-boats Neil put a bit of "gaming" on me. I did not expect to see strategic bombers in Canada before US entry. This means Neil built them there. I guess the good news is that this is an indicator that he believes the u-boat threat to be much greater than it actually is.

One more turn before Barbarossa. I've got some work to do next turn getting units in place.

I built two more infantry corps (which will be ready next turn) and ended the turn with 407 oil points.

I hope you are waiting until the penultimate turn before Barbarossa before you upgrade any Axis Minors. Because if you you do that as your last actions you can seriously go into negative PPs just before Barbarossa, thus you get the most powerful force possible on the Barbarossa turn.

massina_nz wrote:I hope you are waiting until the penultimate turn before Barbarossa before you upgrade any Axis Minors. Because if you you do that as your last actions you can seriously go into negative PPs just before Barbarossa, thus you get the most powerful force possible on the Barbarossa turn.

I did go negative this turn repairing air. Next turn will be the same too.

Turn 33. June 2, 1941.

The eve of Barbarossa. The time for initial preparations is over and the time for invading is near.

In the Med, the Italians finally cleared out the last remnants of the CW division (i.e., garrison) holding out of the eastern part of the island.

In the North Atlantic, the German u-boats spot a large RN task force obviously sent out to hunt for them. Neil actually did me a favor by attacking when he did with his bombers. Otherwise, I would have stuck around attacking the convoy, which would have given the RN more time to make it in the area and go sub hunting.

that seems an odd defence of Tobruk - unless you plan to send some TAC's?

Turn 34. June 22, 1941 Axis.

Barbarossa!!! Not as strong of an initial turn as I would have liked. Also, Manstein is a bit too far out front and will have to be reigned in a bit in future turns. I definitely need more infantry corps. I have three in the build queue.

Knowing Neil I would be surprised if he plans to make a push in Finland and try to knock them out early. If he does then I will plan a holding action. Regardless, I plan for my major push to be in the center.

One piece of advice (FWIW) in Finland, is to keep the German INFs defending the Karelin peninsula, and if possible use the Finnish INFs to defend the northern corridor. That way if you place a German leader around AGN then the German INFs can benefit from their command rating (if in range)

Turn 35. July 12, 1941.

Neil stated in his email that the Russians had formed a transport west of Leningrad. To me this was too obvious and my assessment was that he was setting a trap with the Russian sub group in the hex west of the transport. So, I didn't take the bait. Unless, he was being too obvious on purpose and his sub is off somewhere else. Ahh ... this makes my head hurt.

It looks like Neil is going to make a stand pretty far west. I really don't understand this as it gives me all summer and fall to kill off Russian units. Something that I'm happy to do in exchange for less territory. I guess he figures the PP's gain by holding on to more territory is more than the units he'll lose.

Turn 16. August 1, 1941 Axis.

As I expected Neil is making a push against Finland. I moved another fighter into range and will hold there. Neil throughout Russia is giving me good opportunities to kill more Russian units that I usually get this earlier. I haven't spotted his armor reserve yet, which I have to assume he's built and is holding for counterattack if he gets a good opportunity. I don't plan to give him one.

Turn 37. August 21, 1941

Well, Neil's basic strategy really became apparent to me this turn. I had suspected that his aggressive play with the Brits early and his stand in Russia in 1941 were focused on draining axis oil, with probably a secondary objective of draining their PP's. The Russian strategic bomber hit Polesti and a massive UK invasion fleet is off the coast of Crete. I had just pulled out the Italian infantry corps on Crete for redeployment to Russia but sent it back. It was still on transport and docked in Greece. I'll have to transport the garrison out to get him in if, and I assume he will, Neil lands UK forces on both sides of the Crete city.

Axis oil stockpiles ended the turn at 272, which is pretty low for this point in the game. They're not critical but just means I really need to watch them. However; I can let on or give an hint to Neil that I'm the least bit concerned about oil. Information on axis stockpile levels are being protected at the highest levels and even the German public has no idea so moves continue on (for now) as if the axis had a stockpile of 600.

Since the beginning of Barbarossa the Germans have built infantry corps. In the last 3 turns (including this one), I built 10 corps. I do need more fighters and will switch soon (maybe next turn) to building them. Fighters are a good tradeoff between air support and oil usage. They also provide a lot of defense and a deterrent to early offensive operations by the allies.

Neil is definitely a busy bee as the allies in the early game. It's definitely not routine play against him.

By the way, the Italian sub group in support of the axis response to the UK move against Crete discovered a second UK sub group.

Your pretty far into this game rkr1958.

If the game was still pre barbarossa I'd have advised you to: Focus your schwerpunkt at leningrad/moscow or black sea coast/caucasaus. For leningrad/moscow I like to have naval transports near leningrad waiting for finland to join axis. Then declare war on USSR and launch amphib invasion and barbarossa.

My general thoughts on axis play. Everything I said about recon and operational mobility in your other aar also applies to axis play.

I think axis strategy boils down to sealion or ussr/iraq/iran oil. After the fall of france and italy joins the axis you either do sealion or Turkey asap based on recon.
Conquering Turkey asap prior to barbarossa allows:

1. Italian naval units into the black sea for naval superiority allowing amphib operational mobility invasions and naval shore bombardment against ussr units.
2. Pre barbarossa puts you within striking distance of ussr caucasaus or iraqi oil. No more axis oil shortages. So axis can build lots of air/armour units.

For operation turkey sandwich it's best to conquer greece first and use crete as an airbase to support the conquest of turkey via adana then ankara via the plains by 3 or 4 german armour units. But rhodes is italian and adana can be reached by the german strat bomber with strat ops one from rhodes. After adana is captured and the armour is heading to ankara rebase axis air units near adana to support the capture of ankara and complete the conquest of turkey.

Sealion or turkey are agressive strategies and axis research pp's need to be limited to german air 2 and 1 armour at the start. The rest of the german pp's need to build a CV and 2 fighter/2 tac bomber/1 armour units to support sealion or the german air units can go to the med for turkey. I'm not sure what italy should do with pp's. The first CV is built in dec 40 and the second 6 turns later. I think 2 italian bb's for shore bombardment in the black sea of ussr units is ok.

Other axis odds and ends. Don't forget to capture malta. If Spain is conquered by axis it gives 12 full pp's to axis production, unlike other axis conquests which receive only half pp's, plus you can then conquer gibralter and shut the allies out of the med. A second advantage of conquering spain is that air units in north western spain can attack the southern most allied convoy. The third benefit of conquering spain, is that it provides good naval bases for axis anti convoy operations. If Sweden is conquered it gives norway anti ussr convoy air operations 5 supply instead of 3 and axis units in finland get 4 supply instead of 3. If turkey, syria, iraq and egypt are conquered axis units can rail from turkey to libya. Vastly speeding up axis reinforcements to replel allied amphib invasions in the med. Conquering iran is slowwww with all that rough terrain and bad supply.

PinkPanzer wrote:Your pretty far into this game rkr1958.

If the game was still pre barbarossa I'd have advised you to: Focus your schwerpunkt at leningrad/moscow or black sea coast/caucasaus. For leningrad/moscow I like to have naval transports near leningrad waiting for finland to join axis. Then declare war on USSR and launch amphib invasion and barbarossa.

My general thoughts on axis play. Everything I said about recon and operational mobility in your other aar also applies to axis play.

I think axis strategy boils down to sealion or ussr/iraq/iran oil. After the fall of france and italy joins the axis you either do sealion or Turkey asap based on recon.
Conquering Turkey asap prior to barbarossa allows:

1. Italian naval units into the black sea for naval superiority allowing amphib operational mobility invasions and naval shore bombardment against ussr units.
2. Pre barbarossa puts you within striking distance of ussr caucasaus or iraqi oil. No more axis oil shortages. So axis can build lots of air/armour units.

For operation turkey sandwich it's best to conquer greece first and use crete as an airbase to support the conquest of turkey via adana then ankara via the plains by 3 or 4 german armour units. But rhodes is italian and adana can be reached by the german strat bomber with strat ops one from rhodes. After adana is captured and the armour is heading to ankara rebase axis air units near adana to support the capture of ankara and complete the conquest of turkey.

Sealion or turkey are agressive strategies and axis research pp's need to be limited to german air 2 and 1 armour at the start. The rest of the german pp's need to build a CV and 2 fighter/2 tac bomber/1 armour units to support sealion or the german air units can go to the med for turkey. I'm not sure what italy should do with pp's. The first CV is built in dec 40 and the second 6 turns later. I think 2 italian bb's for shore bombardment in the black sea of ussr units is ok.

Other axis odds and ends. Don't forget to capture malta. If Spain is conquered by axis it gives 12 full pp's to axis production, unlike other axis conquests which receive only half pp's, plus you can then conquer gibralter and shut the allies out of the med. A second advantage of conquering spain is that air units in north western spain can attack the southern most allied convoy. The third benefit of conquering spain, is that it provides good naval bases for axis anti convoy operations. If Sweden is conquered it gives norway anti ussr convoy air operations 5 supply instead of 3 and axis units in finland get 4 supply instead of 3. If turkey, syria, iraq and egypt are conquered axis units can rail from turkey to libya. Vastly speeding up axis reinforcements to replel allied amphib invasions in the med. Conquering iran is slowwww with all that rough terrain and bad supply.

First of all, is really (and why?) conquered Spain gives full 12 PP production? What is so special in Spain?

Secondary, Turkish operation looks like pure avanture for me. First of all, you don't have this many time between fall of france and normal barbarossa date - most players, as I can see, hardly manage to grab Balkans and redeploy for the east to launch barbarossa on 22 June (and its not optimal date, 2nd June or even May is much better). After you conquer Turkey you can rail, but how? You need to ship troops to Turkey (paying PPs) and you still rail them into all same 3 supply and rough/mountain terrain hexes, if you are heading for caucassus/iraq, and you still have to fight hard, so benefits are unclear. Even direct early strike from Lybia to Egypt and further looks like more promising thing, to conquer oil (tested, workes sometimes, but not often). Direct strike through USSR to caucassus works (almost) never though, and if it works, it means that USSR simple have no troops to defend this side region, because its close to surrender.

Bringing BBs to coast bombard something from Black Sea looks...strange, coast bombardments are not great, especially from low ORG italian BBs.
Russians can easily answer to any amphib operation, railing troops, since they have enough troops - its not like England in summer 1940. So soon you will find your amphibious forces defending some beachhead (with 1 supply) and surrounded by red army.

Also why sending 3-4 armour to conquer Turkey? Turks have no armour units, so you just smoke infantry out of Adana and Ankara, and 2 mechs (with 2 TACs and 1 fighter) will do it just as good.

Building funny stuff like CVs (together with delaying research) for axis is playing with death, since ostfront can collapse very early.
CV is also huge oil burner and not the best unit, compared to ground-based planes, so why you need it at all?

Last thing to add , just keep in mind, that loading troops into transports cost 8 PPs, moving transport consume oil, and early axis transport cap is low.
So each 4 units loaded into transports and moved for 1 turn is 1 unbuilt corps and 1 unfueled panzer. Before sending troops overseas for minor goals consider it.

Turn 38. September 10, 1941 Axis.

I have one guaranteed turn of fair weather left in Russia and then it turns fall. There is even a 10% chance of severe winter in October. So next turn will likely be my last turn of major combat operations in Russia and then I'll start transiting to winter.

In the Med, Neil has brought up significant air assets to support his invasion of Crete. At least I know that the Brits aren't up to mischief somewhere else.

First of all, is really (and why?) conquered Spain gives full 12 PP production? What is so special in Spain?

Secondary, Turkish operation looks like pure avanture for me. First of all, you don't have this many time between fall of france and normal barbarossa date - most players, as I can see, hardly manage to grab Balkans and redeploy for the east to launch barbarossa on 22 June (and its not optimal date, 2nd June or even May is much better). After you conquer Turkey you can rail, but how? You need to ship troops to Turkey (paying PPs) and you still rail them into all same 3 supply and rough/mountain terrain hexes, if you are heading for caucassus/iraq, and you still have to fight hard, so benefits are unclear. Even direct early strike from Lybia to Egypt and further looks like more promising thing, to conquer oil (tested, workes sometimes, but not often). Direct strike through USSR to caucassus works (almost) never though, and if it works, it means that USSR simple have no troops to defend this side region, because its close to surrender.

Bringing BBs to coast bombard something from Black Sea looks...strange, coast bombardments are not great, especially from low ORG italian BBs.
Russians can easily answer to any amphib operation, railing troops, since they have enough troops - its not like England in summer 1940. So soon you will find your amphibious forces defending some beachhead (with 1 supply) and surrounded by red army.

Also why sending 3-4 armour to conquer Turkey? Turks have no armour units, so you just smoke infantry out of Adana and Ankara, and 2 mechs (with 2 TACs and 1 fighter) will do it just as good.

Building funny stuff like CVs (together with delaying research) for axis is playing with death, since ostfront can collapse very early.
CV is also huge oil burner and not the best unit, compared to ground-based planes, so why you need it at all?

Last thing to add , just keep in mind, that loading troops into transports cost 8 PPs, moving transport consume oil, and early axis transport cap is low.
So each 4 units loaded into transports and moved for 1 turn is 1 unbuilt corps and 1 unfueled panzer. Before sending troops overseas for minor goals consider it.

Nothing special about spain. That's why I included it in odds and ends about axis play. If axis conquer spain they get all 12 pp. If axis conquer britain they get 14 of 28 pp. Just an observation about axis spanish conquest along with naval bases, operations by axis air units to ambush allied convoys and capturing gibralter.

Turkish operation looks like a pure adventure to you? According to Van Creveld's Supplying War: Logistics from Wallenstein to Patton German planners knew barbarossa logistics would go to hell in a hand basket in 4 or 5 months.
From my notes, Axis conquest of yugo is worth 3 pp's and serves no strategic purpose. Axis conquest of greece is worth 4 pp's and crete serves as an axis CV for air units against UK operations against the conquest of turkey. The whole point of the conquest of turkey is to serve as a gateway to the easier conquest of oil in iraq and the ussr caucausas. The whole poimt of an ideal barbarossa after the conquest of turkey is to grab ussr oil. Think Schwerpunkt. The adavantage of a preemptive blitzkreig/pearl harbour on turkey is that it gives you access to ussr and iraq oil, whereas going through egypt or russia you have to foot slog through egypt or russia at say 4 hexs/turn max. Whereas 4 german armour transports from southern italy can travel at travel at 15 hexes to adana then land, then bitchslap the adana unit asap and go for ankara asap with the help of axis air units landed near adana. Think how supermax would do it. The whole point of a turkish invasion is to capture oil asap without wasting time.
Conventional barbarossa sucks, even with an ideal supermax border troops destruction strategy. Because their is no schwerpunkt. Axis should either go north using naval transports asap at barbarossa start to go for leningrad/moscow. 13 pp's? or south from turkey to cut of the caucasuas via batumi then north through mountains then east to the caspain across clear terrain cutting off the caucausaus from reinforcements asap to get oil. Everything in the middle is low pp crap.

I knpw where your sun Tzu coming from. Your either a Borger/monty hey diddle diddle straight up the middle attritionist basterd or your a supermax/rommel/patton ingloious basterd who will carve a swatsika in your enemy's forehead/grab'em by the balls kick'em in the rear.
enemy's
Rail movement is just a side benefit of the conquest of turkey puting you closer to oil oil oil oil oil. How does germany lose the quickest? Run out of oil for air and armour units?
Your probably right about italian bb's with low org in the the black sea being useless for shore bombardment to unhinge ussr defensive lines from the coast. But, they will get experience and you can't build a canal from germany to the med.

3 or 4 armour units to conquer turkey. Speed, speed speed and more speed. Don't want to get bogged down in turkey prior to barbarossa. 1or 2 to iraq and 2 to batumi then the caspian.

The point of building a german CV is to help sealion and /orhelp assist the capture of ussr baltic ports. Then help win the battle of the atlantic.

Yeah I know naval transports cost 8 pp's and consume 1 oil, but time is money. There's a napolean and stonewall jackson quotes I could give you about stealing a march on your enemy. Naval transports move 15 hexes. Remember what I told your about operational mobility? Time is worth more than firepower.

I agree with you. rkr1958 I don't understand Ceaw GS game mechanics as well as you do, but I'm om the same wavelength as supermax on steroids

I'd bet supermax could pull off a sealion/turkey/ussr oil iraq oil taco bell think outside the bun.