Slitherine

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:30 pm**

Recently replayed to AO series to see how they hold up. It gave me some new perspective on the developers' thought process and I appreciate some of the chances they took. Instead of the umpteenth battle to secure the Danzig corridor, we went against France and then the aborted Sealion 1940. Kerch instead of Sevastopol was different and fun.

Unfortunately, the AO series didn't hold up as well in the later years. Early years were stronger than I remember, but 44 and 45 had some misses. 45 AH could have been great if the Soviets wouldn't have gotten the vapors when we detonated the captured A-bomb as a show of force. It started really well, but then just stopped - should have at least gone through Smolensk again.

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:57 pm**

I really enjoyed the a-historical route and the missions.

One thing that doesnt make sense though is that Japan is somehow winning and becomes a force in India. Even though the Germans are now winning, Japan would still be wiped out even if the A-Bomb didnt go off there bc it was shipped to Germany.

By late 1943 when the split happened, the U.S. already decimated a big part of their fleet and Japan was basically on the defensive. There is no way they could have overcame that. Even if the Normandy invasion was not successful japan still would have lost. U.S. subs played havoc on their supplies and japan could not manufacture enough ships to stop the onslaught.

The fact that Normandy was not successful might mean that the US would in fact send more to the pacific to wipe out Japan faster.

Also, what happened in Italy and that campaign? The US did have a foothold in Italy and were driving there so what became of that?

Did the fighting just magically stop?

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:23 am**

If the state of Europe and Germany is so dramatically different, with a 1945 occupation of the Caucasus being the biggest example, I don't see any reason the Pacific and Japan should follow the historical timeline to a T.

Potential spoilers

Code: Select all

We'll see this ahead as the Battles of Midway and Leyte have all played out differently.  The best evidence of this change that shows instead of tells (more text writing) is that Shinano is... a battleship.  It's never converted to an aircraft carrier in this Axis Operations ahistorical timeline.

As for Italy... Italy was definitely a frozen conflict, and I don't think it's much of a stretch of the imagination to think that if the rest of the war in Europe is going so poorly for the Allies, Italy would likely suffer similarly.  For example, there was no Operation Dragoon (invasion of Southern France) because of the failure of D-Day.  It's not Vichy France anymore, it's just the French State (propped up to be a Pro-German and Anti-British government of course).

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:49 am**

Kerensky wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:23 am If the state of Europe and Germany is so dramatically different, with a 1945 occupation of the Caucasus being the biggest example, I don't see any reason the Pacific and Japan should follow the historical timeline to a T.

THANKYOU!!!... "Kerensky"... for taking the "Blinders-Off!!!"_ Explanation:... horses were equipped with these accoutrements to help keep them from being distracted... since they have 360-degrees vision_... 'Now : ... continuing' ... Thanks-Again For... "Thinking Outside the BOX!!!".
...and for revealing... Potential spoilers
Code: Select all
We'll see this ahead as the Battles of Midway and Leyte have all played out differently.  The best evidence of this change that shows instead of tells (more text writing) is that Shinano is... a battleship.  It's never converted to an aircraft carrier in this Axis Operations ahistorical timeline.

As for Italy... Italy was definitely a frozen conflict, and I don't think it's much of a stretch of the imagination to think that if the rest of the war in Europe is going so poorly for the Allies, Italy would likely suffer similarly.  For example, there was no Operation Dragoon (invasion of Southern France) because of the failure of D-Day.  It's not Vichy France anymore, it's just the French State (propped up to be a Pro-German and Anti-British government of course).

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:20 am**

Ruggs225 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:57 pm One thing that doesnt make sense though is that Japan is somehow winning and becomes a force in India. Even though the Germans are now winning, Japan would still be wiped out even if the A-Bomb didnt go off there bc it was shipped to Germany.

You cant just look at 1945. In 1943 (?!) there is a training scenario with a speciell event. You get a japanse officer while they get some tigers. Tiger = OP

The amercians keep losing bombers all the time vs german jets plus failed invasion. This might also influence the battle in the atlantic. There are some reason the US might have to focus on europe, which could favor the japanese.

Also, what happened in Italy and that campaign? The US did have a foothold in Italy and were driving there so what became of that?

Did the fighting just magically stop?

Even in the historical part the war in italy was not that important.
Afair at some point wagner or galland says, there the allied invasion is not going so well.
Maybe some scenarios are coming if there are Ahistorical DLC for the west campaign.

Posted: **Thu Aug 24, 2023 1:01 pm**

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:20 am
Ruggs225 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 23, 2023 3:57 pm One thing that doesnt make sense though is that Japan is somehow winning and becomes a force in India. Even though the Germans are now winning, Japan would still be wiped out even if the A-Bomb didnt go off there bc it was shipped to Germany.
You cant just look at 1945. In 1943 (?!) there is a training scenario with a speciell event. You get a japanse officer while they get some tigers. Tiger = OP
The amercians keep losing bombers all the time vs german jets plus failed invasion. This might also influence the battle in the atlantic. There are some reason the US might have to focus on europe, which could favor the japanese.
Also, what happened in Italy and that campaign? The US did have a foothold in Italy and were driving there so what became of that?

Did the fighting just magically stop?
Even in the historical part the war in italy was not that important.
Afair at some point wagner or galland says, there the allied invasion is not going so well.
Maybe some scenarios are coming if there are Ahistorical DLC for the west campaign.

Thats a bit of a stretch. By the time of operation Roland, coral sea midway already happened in 1942 and the japanese lost 4 carriers plus valuable pilots. Also guadalcanal was lost and Yammamoto was killed. Battle pf Bismarck sea just happened, and new guinea was about to be lost. So in all, they were really done for. Even the emperor sent out a proclamation in late 1943 saying the situation was dire. There is just no way around this unless its a dual Alt-History that ties in to Pacific Corps.

The only way this could possibly be explained is that with Operation Sealion taking place it drove the US to send more to the Atlantic to help the UK and thus creating an alt history in which Coral Sea and Midway never happened and Japan was able to capture more in the Pacific thus delaying everything and allowing their push westward in Asia happen. But this was never explained in any reports.

As for italy. Once Normandy was lost, the allies might have made more of a push through the soft underbelly. Though the German Jets do cover some of the story of air superiority.

Plus the entire Mediterranean was under allied control. This needs to be remedied in 1946. I mean how will the captured British Navy get through the Suez Canal if it is under allied control. Let alone Italy and Malta and the rest of the Mediterranean. And if they go around africa then they need tk break out against the US navy which is superior still. They would also be low on any fuel or ammunition as there are no friendly ports to go to around that way. Oh and South Africa is under allied control so even then they would have to deal with air attacks.

Posted: **Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:03 pm**

Ok im a little late - but i finally finished AO45 historic and ahistoric with a brand new playthrough.

Due to my broken coreforces i had to start new, and well after 4 tries with strange difficulty settings i decided to do a "normal" 1. so here we are:

The DLC feels "big enough" considering the amount of missions. But again for each path it feels to short from a gaming perspective. I think this is an issue that should be fixed in later games or PC3. I still think it would be better to seperate both pathes into diffrent DLCs.
The historic path was more fun for me considering the challenge, but it felt "bad" for me to play and win them. The first thing that made me feel "bad" was fulfilling the high command objectives. (Vienna ??!) Doing hard stuff should grant a reward, and well i appreciate the reminder that this war was bloody, brutal with unimaginable crimes on both sides, but thats not a reward for me.
The second point is, that i took the battles for challenge, but in the big picture i felt like "why are you doing this". It still feels like loosing the game, and i know thats the reason why there is a ahistoric part, but right now i feel kinda "empty".
A well formed and prepared coreforce and now its over...

Just to clarify, i like the narration during the whole series. And i would love (!!!!) a game in another setting, like a space wargame with the unit variation and strategic depth of pc2, but without any bonds of history or franchise so that Kerensky and the team could tell a cool story like in the ao series.

the ahistoric path brought some nice ideas and battles, but it felt really short. I mean the ending is....strange, but ok its a cease fire, maybe there is the opportunity to win the eastern front.

As a conslusion:
Im looking forward to 1946, this will be awesome. The historic series felt great so far, but i like the way pc1 did it more. with marginal and decisive victories and the possibility to turn the war even later on.

For the AO series i would like some more "flavour" DLCS, like more battles for each year (winterwar, more battles aorund stalingrad, and so on) or crazy stuff like "zombiemode" (ok i know thats not realistic, but it would be great...)

but pls consider doing a space wargame on that engine with that variation of units and that storytelling or even more of that story telling.

Slitherine

Axis Operation 1945 Review

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