Slitherine

Yeah, I guess, you're right. So, 1 full-strength tank unit = 1 battalion, then. And, perhaps, we could also represent some smaller units with the strength of 7 for more diversity. 30 tanks per unit would be some kind of overkill for a division with 300+ more tanks in its ranks.

Khancotlette wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:00 pm Yeah, I guess, you're right. So, 1 full-strength tank unit = 1 battalion, then. And, perhaps, we could also represent some smaller units with the strength of 7 for more diversity. 30 tanks per unit would be some kind of overkill for a division with 300+ more tanks in its ranks.

To further complicate things, many panzer divisions in like 1942/3 onwards even only had 1 tank battalion in their regiment! Take this division for instance:


12. Panzer-Division

Order of battle (Summer 1943)
HQ
- Divisional Staff
- Mapping Detachment (mot)
29. Panzer Regiment
- Regimental Staff
- Signal Platoon
- Regimental Band (and don't forget the band! )
- Battalion
5. Panzergrenadier Regiment
- Regimental Staff
- Regimental Band
- Regimental Staff Company (mot)
- 2 x Battalion
- Infantry Gun Company (mot)
25. Panzergrenadier Regiment
- Regimental Staff
- Regimental Band
- Regimental Staff Company (mot)
- 2 x Battalion
- Infantry Gun Company (mot)
12. Reconnaissance Battalion
- Armored Car Company
- Armored Car Company (half-track)
- Reconnaissance Company (half-track)
- Motorcycle Company
- Heavy Reconnaissance Company (half-track)
- Light Reconnaissance Supply Column (mot)
2. Panzerjäger Battalion
- Panzerjäger Company (mot)
- Panzerjäger Company (self-propelled)
303. Army Flak Battalion
- Staff & Staff Battery (mot)
- 2 x Heavy Flak Battery (mot)
- Light Flak Battery (mot)
- Flak Battery (self-propelled)
- Light Flak Supply Column (mot)
2. Panzer Artillery Regiment
- Regimental Staff
- Staff Battery
- 2 x Battalion
- Battalion (mot)
- Battalion (self-propelled)
- Observation Battery (mot)
2. Panzer Signals Battalion
- Panzer Telephone Company
- Panzer Radio Company
- Light Signals Supply Column
32. Panzer Pioneer Battalion
- Staff
- Pioner Company (half-track)
- 2 x Pioneer Company (mot)
- Brüko K Bridging Column
- Light Pioneer Supply Column (mot)
Supply & Support Units

source (and one that I use a lot): https://www.axishistory.com/axis-nation ... stria/heer

Well. I guess, the methodology is more or less designed for the armoured units. Of course, following the general pattern, I should do the mechanised infantry (Panzergrenadier) first, but... I don't know, I'm just into something different. We have an index (don't forget about it ) after all to keep everything in place, so it would be no problem to have a late-war Panzer division so early in this thread. Let's make something unique first!

GERMANY
Armoured Training Division (1944/45) Template


Panzer Lehr Division. France, Summer 1944

Why Panzer Lehr? Well, quite a few guys asked for it, and, to be honest, that should be one of the easiest Panzer/Panzergrenadier templates to make. It was an elite, well-armed and well-supplied division — the only division of the whole Wehrmacht to have all its infantry mechanised (i.e. transported by armoured half-trucks). It followed its "on paper" structure quite well — at least at the beginning of their journey. So, let's compose their PzC 2 avatar! I got a bit tired of infantry-based templates, so let's make a tank one! Of course, the Panzergrenadier divisions will still have their place here, just a bit later.

Important Disclaimer: this is some kind of 'combined' template, which represents both full strength and newest equipment for the Armoured Training Division. In reality, it was only one option — either full strength or newer armament, because the division was suffering quite heavy casualties both in '44 Normandy and '45 Ardennes. That's more a gameplay setup, not an actual representation of this fighting force in some specific moment of history.

Panzer Lehr Division's main fighting force were a Tank Regiment and two Tank Grenadier Regiments. As I've mentioned before, these Tank Grenadiers were the only unit in Wehrmacht to be fully mechanised. So, what's our choice?

According to the methodology we've been discussing, the Regiment would be represented by two Tank Battalions — one armed with Panthers and one with Panzer IV's. In my opinion, the best option to represent the elite status of these formations would be using Panther G and Panzer IVH.

The Tank Grenadier Regiments are already familiar to you — two units of '43 Grenadier with the strength of 12. And of course the SdKfz 251/1 half-trucks to show their unique equipment!

Also, the division had a bunch of engineers — their own Sapper Battalion. Of course, they should be the 10-strong '43 Pioniere with another SdKfz 251 half-truck.

Then, let's go to divisional artillery. The Artillery Regiment of the Panzer Lehr was equipped with both towed and self-propelled guns, including the mighty Hummel. The majority of self-propelled artillery, however, were the Wespe machines (12 Wespe vs. 6 Hummel), but I guess for such an elite division we would allow ourselves to use Hummel, because that's awesome, right? Wespe would be used for standard Panzer divisions. According to our method of making the templates more tank-centered, since such is the game itself, we would give this unit the strength of 15 to show that it's a regiment, not a battalion.

There also was an Anti-Tank Battalion with JagdPanzer IV in its ranks. I've decided to use JgPz IV/70, since this formation is elite and should have the best possible guns. It should be of full strength (10), since that's an armoured unit of an armoured division (for the self-propelled artillery battalions of the infantry divisions we used strength of 7 — just for the balance).

The Anti-Aircraft Battalion of the Panzer Lehr had classic 8,8 cm FlaK 36 guns carried by SdKfz 7. And yes, this battalion is not an armoured or self-propelled unit, so strength rules are the same as before — 7 per unit.

And, finally, the Recon Battalion. Historically it was (en masse) another mechanised infantry unit using SdKfz 250 half-trucks, but in the game it doesn't work this way, so let's use the most fitting recon armoured car that was historically used by the Armoured Training Division. I guess, we have our full right to make it a Puma battalion with the strength of 10 (since they're armoured unit and in an armoured formation). And that should be it!

TEMPLATE TOTALS
1 x Panzer V Panther Ausf. G, 1 x Panzer IV Ausf. H;
2 x '43 Grenadier + SdKfz 251/1 (strength 12);
1 x '43 Pioniere + SdKfz 251/1 (strength 10);
1 x Hummel (strength 15);
1 x JagdPanzer IV/70(V);
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 (strength 7);
1 x SdKfz 234/2 8Rad.

Hopefully, I managed to represent these guys right! This template would be something expensive, for sure: 44 core slots and circa 4310 prestige. Let's hope you'll have enough money by the late game!

Until next time! We will begin the 'regular' Panzergrenadier Divisions soon. Eager to hear all your comments and suggestions! Stay tuned

adiekmann wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:50 pm
To further complicate things, many panzer divisions in like 1942/3 onwards even only had 1 tank battalion in their regiment! Take this division for instance:

Thanks for the source! Yeah, that's kinda problematic, not gonna lie. But, I guess we would represent the full possible strength here?

And now let's go back to the usual business. We're beginning with the regular Mechanised Infantry!

GERMANY
Mid-War (1942/43) Tank Grenadier Division Template


German Panzergrenadier. Russia, Autumn 1943

First things first. We consider Tank Grenadiers to be mechanised, not motorised infantry. But that's more a hypothetical thing. In theory, Panzergrenadier were using more armoured carriers and half-trucks, but in reality they were still mostly motorised infantry. Only Panzer Lehr Division was lucky enough to have all its infantry mechanised (and we've already made a template of them, so you could have a look above). Historically, 11% of the Tank Grenadiers were using APCs and the rest were on trucks. I guess, for the sake of both gameplay and historical accuracy we would always make one infantry unit mechanised and all the rest motorised, but keep in mind that your in-game corps could be top-of-the-class elite, and then you could make all infantry personnel moved by armoured half-trucks

The Tank Grenadier Divisions were first introduced in the summer of 1942. Their major use began by the summer of 1943, when almost all mobile infantry of Germany became Tank Grenadiers. The Panzergrenadier themselves, however, did exist before — but that was the name only for infantry of the Tank Divisions. Most of the first PzGr-Divisions were converted from either Infantry or Motorised Infantry divisions. The latter was much more common, because they already had enough trucks and other stuff for motorised warfare.

So, what's the principal difference between a Motorised Infantry Division and Tank Grenadier Division? I would say that the most visible distinction is an armoured battalion, which existed in almost every Panzergrenadier Division, and the wider use of self-propelled artillery. For the rest they were almost the same. However, in the course of war the German mechanised divisions evolved quite radically, but that should be covered in our future updates.

The typical '42/43 Panzergrenadier Division setup would look this way:

Tank Battalion, or, more correctly, Armoured Battalion was the key feature of all Panzergrenadier divisions. Why did I name it rather Armoured than Tank? Well, because in many (I would say most) cases this battalion was equipped not with tanks, but with self-propelled artillery, since the tanks themselves were desperately needed for the proper Tank Divisions. So, it's up to you to use either tanks or SP guns for this one. For a historically accruate '42/43 setup I would suggest using StuG IIIG assault gun for this battalion. Strength 10, since that's an armoured division.

The number of Tank Grenadier Regiments could vary in different divisions (from 2 to 4), but the most standard setup was only two. So, let's portray them with a unit of Grenadier using SdKfz 251/1 and Wehr Infanterie using Opel Blitz. Basically, a mechanised heavy regiment and a motorised light regiment. In reality, as I've said before, the vast majority of the Panzergrenadier were just motorised.

Almost all Tank Grenadier division also had a Sapper Battalion, so we would include it as well. Pioniere, strength 10, Opel Blitz, you know the drill.

Artillery Regiment. I guess, for an earlier Tank Grenadier setup we'll make it classic — 10,5 cm LeFH 18 and Opel Blitz. Massive use of self-propelled artillery in these divisions began a bit later, and we already have a battalion of StuGs, right? Business as usual then.

Then goes the Anti-Tank Battalion. It's quite tricky. The main armament of this battalion was the 7,5 cm PaK 40 gun, which is well-known to you. However, it's a mechanised division, after all. So I guess it wouldn't be much of an amplification to use Marder II assault guns in this case. The Germans did use them in their Tank Grenadier divisions, after all, just in smaller numbers. Let's save towed AT guns for motorised infantry, the Panzergrenadier require some mobility!

Also, some PzGr Divisions (about half of them) had an Anti-Aircraft Battalion. This purchase is optional, but possible. The famous heavy 8,8 cm FlaK guns and their SdKfz 7 carriers would be fine. Strength 7 — battalion, not armoured.

For the Recon Battalion (or, officially, Armoured Recon Detachment) we would use SdKfz 233. Actually, the SdKfz 231 8Rad (named SdKfz 232 in the game, which is not completely correct, since 232 was a signals armoured car, not recon vehicle) would be a more "generic" alternative, but I think that Tank Grenadiers '42/43 division would be almost the only option to use the 233 in the game, while 232 has plenty of other options to be represented. Strength 10, since these guys are armoured.

We should also mention, that the divisional layout did vary in different divisions, and quite radically. It was just like Motorised Infantry Divisions, but a bit more standardised. The template we are showing here is just generic, some kind of "typical", most standard setup.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
1 x StuG III Ausf. G;
1 x Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz, 1 x Grenadier + SdKfz 251/1;
1 x Pioniere + Opel Blitz (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x Marder II Ausf. A;
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 (strength 7) — optional;
1 x SdKfz 233 8 Rad.

The division costs 27 core slots and 2540 prestige. Quite a reasonable price for the mid-game, I must say. That should be it for now!

Let's continue with the late-war setup.

GERMANY
Late War (1944—1945) Tank Grenadier Division Template


German Tank Grenadiers. Belgium, Winter 1944/45

This divisional pattern was introduced officially in 1944, but in reality it was never actually implemented due to obvious reasons. The changes weren't radical, but still significant.

Regarding the Armoured Battalion first. In general, most of the Tank Grenadier divisions still used either StuG IIIF or StuG IIIG by that moment, that was the majority of these battalions' machine park. So it could stay just as in the previous template. But we should take in account, that by the end of the war the Panzergrenadier divisions took quite heavy casualties in the matter of AT self-propelled guns, while most of the assault guns, the heavy self-propelled artillery, were still available due to their rear positioning. So, I guess, it would be a wise decision to portray the late Tank Grenadier armoured battalion with the StuH 42 self-propelled howitzers.

Two Tank Grenadier Regiments were weakened just like the rest of the German infantry. So we would make their maximum strength 12 and upgrade both Grenadier and Wehr Infanterie units to their '43 models. Their transports stay the same — SdKfz 251/1 for the heavy infantry and Opel Blitz for the standard one.

Sapper Battalion stays the same, we'll just upgrade them to '43 Pioniere. Opel Blitz, strength 10 — we've seen that before.

Artillery Regiment (10,5 cm + Opel) and the optional Anti-Aircraft Battalion (8,8 cm + SdKfz 7) would stay completely the same.

The Anti-Tank Battalions had to be rearmed with Jagpanzer IV's. However, it never happened in reality to the full extent. But in the game we could do it, right? I'd suggest using JgdPz IV/48 in order to show a bit weaker firepower of this unit.

And the Recon Battalion should receive newer SdKfz 234's — I'd suggest 234/1 for 'standard' setup and 234/2 Puma for somewhat more elite divisions.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
1 x Sturmhaubitze 42;
1 x '43 Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz, 1 x '43 Grenadier + SdKfz 251/1;
1 x '43 Pioniere + Opel Blitz (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x Jagdpanzer IV/48;
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 (strength 7) — optional;
1 x SdKfz 234/1 8 Rad.

The template costs 28 core slots and around 2610 prestige. That makes the '44 Panzergrenadier Division's price almost the same with its '42/43 counterpart. Should be a nice choice!

Thanks for your attention! I guess, in the next episode we'll talk about the elite PzGr divisions like Grossdeutschland and Feldherrnhalle!

And now, time for some elite!

GERMANY
"Greater Germany" (Großdeutschland) Tank Grenadier Division (1943—1945) Template — as of 1943


Grossdeutschland Division. Ukraine, Autumn 1943

"Greater Germany" Tank Grenadier Division is probably one of the most famous elite units of the Wehrmacht. We'd probably also speak a little bit later about its earlier Infantry and later Panzer variants, but right now that's all about its most well-known form — as mechanised infantry.

The template I'd like to propose is composed roughly up to autumn of 1943. I guess, that should be the best time to show this Panzergrenadier unit in its full strength, and we definitely lack something decent for the mid-game, right?

Also, I've decided to make this unit fully mobile, so all divisional assets are in self-propelled form. But keep in mind, that historically almost half (or even more) of the Grossdeutschland's artillery, tank hunters and anti-aircraft were still old good towed guns. However, it did have lots of self-propelled artillery, so we just add some diversity and gameplay fun for this template, not going against some historical facts.

Right, so, what do we have?

Let's begin with the tank asset. Being formally named "Tank Grenadier", the Greater Germany division had more tanks than perhaps the majority of the Panzer Divisions by that time! Three glorious battalions of the Grossdeutschland Tank Regiment: I. Battalion should be PzKpfw IVG, II. Battalion was made of Panther A and the last, III. Battalion was equipped with Tiger I heavy tanks. Specific modifications of Pz IV and Panther are, of course, could be changed in any suitable way according to your personal taste.

Then goes the divisional infantry. Historically, the division had two regiments — Grenadier and Fusilier ones. According to our system of the Panzergrenadier representation that would make one regiment made of SdKfz 251/1-carried '43 Grenadier and one should stay '43 Wehr Infanterie on Opel Blitz. There also was a Sapper Battalion, which is classic strength-10 '43 Pioniere on Opel.

Artillery Regiment of the division had both towed and self-propelled guns, as I've mentioned before. My personal desire is to represent it with Wespe, strength 15 (since that's a regiment), but other options are also possible — Hummel, towed 10,5 cm, or maybe 15 cm if you're for some bigger guns. It's an elite unit, so there should be plenty of choice.

For the Anti-Tank Battalion it's pretty much the same. The division had both classic PaK guns and self-propelled tank hunter vehicles. However, there's no Marder I in the game (which kinda surprised me), which was equipped historically. So, I guess, we could go with Marder IIA, because it was produced since 1942 and hypothetically could serve in the Grossdeutschland division by the autumn of 1943.

And the Anti-Aircraft Battalion, of course, had both kinds of artillery. 8,8 cm heavy guns were the slight majority in this unit, but if we choose full mobility, than we could use these 3,7 cm SdKfz 7/2 self-propelled guns. Also, one battery was armed with Flakvierlings, so it could be also your choice.

The division also had an additional Assault Gun Battalion, equipped with StuG IIIs. For diversity's sake I would rather choose StuG IIIF/8 since that's late 1943, but it's not the only possible choice here.

And finally, the Recon Battalion. Most of its armoured cars were SdKfz 222 variants, but we've decided to use heavy armoured cars for the mechanised infantry, saving the lighter ones for motorised or regular infantry. Then, we should field an SdKfz 232, which is the only 231 8Rad variant available in the game, nevertheless that the very 232 variant was used for signals, not reconnaissance purpose. But that'll do

So, there's some nice division here, right? Let's count how much would it cost.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
1 x Panzer IV Ausf. G, 1 x Panzer V Panther Ausf. A, 1 x Panzer VI Tiger;
1 x '43 Grenadier + SdKfz 251/1; 1 x '43 Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz;
1 x '43 Pioniere + Opel Blitz (strength 10);
1 x Wespe (strength 15);
1 x Marder II Ausf. A;
1 x StuG III Ausf. F/8;
1 x SdKfz 7/2;
1 x SdKfz 232 8Rad.

The template costs 48 core slots and around 4370 prestige. Extraordinarily expensive division, almost twice as much as a regular PzGr one! But that's what you pay for the elite, right? More content to come! Stay tuned

Strictly speaking, Panzer = armor, not tank. Tank is Panzerkampfwagen, armored fighting wagon.

"Panzer Grenadier" would better translate as "Armored Infantry", which is what the US Army would have called these units during WW2 , with "mechanized infantry" a post-WW2 term IIRC. The infantry in US armored divisions were called "armored infantry" after all...

I am curious to see how you will trace Gross Deutchland's history, from an elite infantry regiment to an entire Corps!

Panzer73 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:42 pm Strictly speaking, Panzer = armor, not tank. Tank is Panzerkampfwagen, armored fighting wagon.

"Panzer Grenadier" would better translate as "Armored Infantry", which is what the US Army would have called these units during WW2 , with "mechanized infantry" a post-WW2 term IIRC. The infantry in US armored divisions were called "armored infantry" after all...

I am curious to see how you will trace Gross Deutchland's history, from an elite infantry regiment to an entire Corps!

Thanks! Yeah, there are always different translations with their pros and cons. I think we'll definitely do all the other stages of this unit one day!

And another elite division for you today!

GERMANY
"Field Leaders' Hall" (Feldherrnhalle) Tank Grenadier Division (1943—1944) Template — as of 1943/44


Feldherrnhalle Division. Estonia, Spring 1944

The "Feldherrnhalle" Division was in many ways similar to the Grossdeutschland Division. However, it was created with a different purpose. If GD units were some kind of restoration of the old Prussian/Imperial German military glory, the FHH division was some kind of "new face of the Nazi army" project. It was named in honour of the Munich building which was a military memorial itself, but also became a kind of sacred place for the Nazi movement due to the Beer Hall Putsch events. Basically it also was a division with a long history (60. Infanterie-Division, later motorised) being reborn after complete disaster at Stalingrad, but it never could carry such a legacy as its "Greater Germany counterpart". And that's why I've decided to make this template — in order to show a lighter, cheaper and simpler variant of a mid-game elite Panzergrenadier Division. Let's call these guys "Grossdeutschland for the poor" Historically their equipment was quite similar, but for the gameplay purposes I would portray the Feldherrnhalle in a bit more ordinary way than in the previous template.

Also, we should remember that the historical fate of the Feldherrnhalle was quite miserable. It was obliterated again during Bagration, then converted into Panzer Division. Guess what? Destroyed again in Hungary. Another recreation in January 1945 in the status of two "Panzerkorps Feldherrnhalle" divisions to face their ultimate defeat. So, basically, this division was destroyed four times during the war! Quite a destiny...

Note: some sources say that the Tank Grenadier Division Feldherrnhalle was named "60. Panzer-Grenadier-Division "Feldherrnhalle", some mention only the name without any numbers. I guess, for an elite division with its own organisation pattern it would be okay to omit the number, if it was really used.

So, as I've said, the FHH Division was supposed to be some kind of "Nazi division", the epitome of the regime (as you may know, the Wehrmacht was always quite conservative and somewhat indifferent to the National Socialist ideology, so that was an attempt to make the Army a bit more "political", in addition to the existing Waffen-SS troops). There were quite a lot of SA members in its ranks and officer corps, and they also shared quite a lot with the SA uniforms and isnignia. That's why I decided to use brown skins for their uniforms and vehicles (except for the camo), but that's completely optional.

Okay, so, what is the organisation? Much similar to the GD division, but smaller, and, as I've already said, cheaper. The Armoured Battalion of the FHH Division historically consisted of 2 assault guns and 2 Panzer companies. I guess, to make the template a bit more fun (since we used the assault guns for the basic Panzergrenadier setup) we would stay with the tanks in this case. Panzer IVH would be a good choice.

Then goes the infantry. Again, a Grenadier Regiment and a Fusilier Regiment, just like in the Grossdeutschland. We would portray them in the same way — '43 Grenadier + SdKfz 251 and '43 Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz. But keep in mind that in contrary to the "Greater Germany", the "Feldherrnhale" came to the front after re-establishment only by early 1944, so 12-strong regiments should be used with high probability. Or maybe not, if you think that's not an option for an elite division

The Sapper Battalion, is of course, in place. '43 Pioniere, Opel, strength 10. Never goes out of style.

For the Artillery Regiment I would support quite an unusual option. The division had 18 self-propelled guns, they were the majority, so, basically, we should use them (Wespes would be fine). But, on the other side, we've already done so for the Grossdeutschland, and this template is some kind of "cheaper alternative", right? So if we ignore the SP-Arty, we would see, that the division had not only 12 classic light 10,5 field howitzers, but it also had the same 12 heavy 15 cm ones! I guess it's a great opportunity to use such a heavy artillery on the divisional level, not like a corps or army asset, so I would go for it! 15 cm sFH 18 and SdKfz 7 to carry!

For the Anti-Tank Battalion the setup is the same with GD, so let's use another Marder II. Modification D for diversity's sake.

In the case of Anti-Aircraft Battalion I'd stick to the classic 8,8 cm's as we've already showed a self-propelled variant for the Grossdeutschland. That's also quite funny that there's currently no 10,5 cm FlaK in the game, the only choice is between 8,8 cm and 12,8 cm. The latter wasn't actually used in field combat, being too heavy to be operatively transported, it was a stationary AA-gun. But the game is about to give us alternative opportunities, right?

And, finally, the Recon Battalion. I guess, another SdKfz 232 would be fine. Or maybe the 222 model, if you go for a cheaper setup. Historically it was used in the PzGr divisions in much wider numbers than the previous one.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
1 x Panzer IV Ausf. H;
1 x '43 Grenadier + SdKfz 251/1; 1 x '43 Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz;
1 x '43 Pioniere + Opel Blitz (strength 10);
1 x sFH 18 + SdKfz 7;
1 x Marder II Ausf. D;
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 (strength 7);
1 x SdKfz 232 8Rad.

Panzer-Grenadier-Division "Feldherrnhalle" would cost you 32 core slots and about 2890 prestige. Definitely better for your budget, but much, much weaker than the "Greater Germany" in probably all aspects except the AA and Artillery (which is fine, but less mobile). I guess, that should be all with Tank Grenadiers for now. In the next update we'll speak about the best part of the game — the Panzers!

Okay guys. We're finally doing it. I should say it in the very beginning before I start with the Armoured Divisions that I'm more than open to all commentaries and critics, because, I guess, there is no perfect way to represent the Panzer Divisions both historically-accurate and fun-to-play in the game, but... I've tried hard! So, let's take a look at it.

GERMANY
Early War (1939) Tank Division Template


German Panzer Division. Poland, Autumn 1939

Okay, what do we have here? Frankly speaking, there is currently no totally historical way to represent the '39 Panzer Division in the game. Why so? Because there are no early Panzer IV modifications and Panzer IVD is available only since May '40 in the vanilla setup. Sad but true. But I guess there are still some plausible ways for an interesting and mostly correct template.

The early German Tank Division was a massive formation. A Panzer Brigade of two armoured regiments and a Rifle Brigade to support it, plus numerous divisional assets being not weaker (at least in the game terms) than an infantry division.

The meta we've chosen after a few discussions says that in our system of representation 1 in-game tank units means 1 tank battalion, but I think there should be just a little bit more diversity, since that's a tank-centered game, especially taking in account that the later division would have much fewer tanks in its ranks. So, what's the setup?

The main armament of a typical 1939 Panzer Division were the Panzer II's. In the game we have got only IIC's (correct me if I'm wrong). However, these divisions also had plenty of old Panzer I's (the game has both A and B modifications, but there is no sense in using the A's for 1939). According to the famous online Wehrmacht Lexicon, in a typical tank battalion there were circa 20 Panzer I and about 24 Panzer II vehicles (there also were some specialized modifications of them, but we don't take them into account). So, I think, the best solution here is to make four equal Tank Battalions, two of them armed with Panzer IB and two with Panzer IIC. But. There also was a handful of Panzer III's and Panzer IV's — roughly 2 and 6 per battalion respectively, making almost 32 together in the division — almost the same amount with the I's and II's in one battalion. So, I guess, we could add another unit representing Mixed Companies of all four Battalions and arm it with... Panzer IIIE. Why? Well, because that's the only possible option I guess, using weaker tanks than actual historical Panzer IV's here would allow us to make this unit of full, 10-point strength for some balance purpose. Also, I guess, some Czech tanks like Panzer 35(t) or Panzer 38(t) Ausf A. would be good for it as well, because, unfortunately, Panzer IIIE is a non-buyable unit.

That should be probably all with the Tank Brigade, however, of course, other variants are also possible. Let's move on. Then we have a Rifle Brigade. In practice it consisted of a Rifle Regiment and a Motorcycle Battalion. We would use for them a 15-strong unit of Wehr Infanterie with Opel Blitz for the means of transport and, of course, a partial-strength unit of Kradschützen.

For the rest it's more or less classic. An Artillery Regiment with its 10,5 cm howitzers, also motorised by an Opel, an Anti-Tank Battalion with 3,7 cm PaK (Opels included as well), and the same motorised Sapper Battalion with the 10-strong Pioniere. Moved by what? By another Blitz, of course!

The last unit to discuss here is the Reconnaissance Battalion. Historically, it had quite a lot of the famous 222's by the beginning of the war, but I'd like to represent it with another armoured car type. We've decided to use heavy recon vehicles for the mechanised and tank divisions, right? Then, I guess, it's our chance to give some space to the SdKfz 231 6Rad! It's definitely not too famous, but it actually was a legendary machine, which was used pretty intensively until 1942, and in 1939 template we should try it, because later it would be somewhat inappropriate.

Phew, that should be all for now. I did it! Eager to hear your thoughts about it!

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Panzer I Ausf. B, 2 x Panzer II Ausf. C;
1 x Panzer III Ausf. E. or Panzer 35(t) / Panzer 38(t) Ausf. A;
1 x Wehr Infanterie + Opel Blitz (strength 15);
1 x Pioniere + Opel Blitz (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x 3,7 cm PaK 36 + Opel Blitz (strength 7);
1 x Kradschützen (strength 7);
1 x SdKfz 231 6Rad.

German Early Tank Division would be around 28 core slots and roughly 2100 prestige (if we take in account different tank models for the Mixed Companies). I would say it's quite a sum for the early game, especially taking in account that you would probably use it only in Poland or maybe some Axis Operations '39 scenarios. So, I guess, using a lighter, 'brigade'-size variant of this division would be a wise decision

Many thanks for your attention! Stay tuned for more! And please don't be afraid to propose any suggestions to this template, because I feel that the Panzer Divisions are the most important for a good historical gameplay. To be continued

If you are playing the AO DLCs, then you can get a single Pz.IIA gift unit in the Teruel scenario in AO SCW. Other than that, Pz.IIC is the only early-war variant available in the game.

Panzer73 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:46 am If you are playing the AO DLCs, then you can get a single Pz.IIA gift unit in the Teruel scenario in AO SCW. Other than that, Pz.IIC is the only early-war variant available in the game.

Right! But I mention only Germany-faction units, while this one is Legion Condor's, which, of course, could be 'inherited' from the campaign

I've also done this (try to represent a historical corps) since PzC 1, built around the 3rd Panzer division.

However, in the Wehrmacht, the level at which units had distinct equipment was the battalion level. For example, the first two battalions of an artillery regiment were 10.5cm, and the 3rd was 15cm. Similarly, (ideally, in practice only GD achieved this) one battalion of each panzergrenadier regiment was supposed to be mechanized and the other motorized; in most Panzer Divisions one battalion in a Panzer Regiment was supposed to be equipped with Panthers and the other with Panzer IVs. Furthermore, battalions had their own history, often being transferred between regiments and divisions (for example the 3rd Panzer Div III/ArtRgt 75 was originally II/ArtRgt 49, a corps level unit that had been attached to the division since the beginning of the war). Finally, and perhaps most importantly, battalions of each division often fought in different combat teams and could be found pretty far from each other.

For all those reasons each of my units= 1 battalion. So, a midwar Panzer Div would have 1 Pioniere, 4 Wehr Infantry (or 2 Grenadier and 2 Wehr Infantry), 1 Kradschutzen, 1 Recon, 3 Artillery, 2 Panzer (one PzIII, one PzIV), 1 PzJg and 1 Flak unit. But for an offensive scenario, I would perhaps only field the two tank units, the pioneers, only the mechanized battalions of infantry, one or two of the artillery battalions, a SP PzJg (or StuG) and a Flak unit. Typically I would field two such "combat teams" supported by corps assets such as 21cm or 17cm Heavy Artillery, nebelwerfer, additional Flak and pioneer units. But for a defensive scenario like Saarbrucken I'd go infantry and artillery heavy, and 5 Inf (+Krad) and 3 Artillery units per divisions means I'd have enough Artillery and Infantry to cover all objectives. Please note that a few divisions had 3 tank battalions for several years, and I find the third battalion an ideal place for captured/prototype equipment. The historical units I prefer are the 3rd Panzer (seems to have been involved in many PzC 1 and PzC 2 battles, took part in SCW/Czechoslovakia, had 3 tank battalions in the first couple of years in the eastern front with the third being intended as a submersible tank unit, its divisional history is widely available), the 6th Panzer (started out as Light division, used Czech tanks in the early years, had a 3rd, independent tank battalion). Just those two formations (3rd and 6th), give me the option of fielding 0-6 tank units, 0-10 infantry (including up to 2 pioniere), 0-2 Krad, 0-2 Recon, 0-6 Artillery, 0-2 AT, 0-2 Flak, and that is before taking into account any corps level units. Add a third division (especially something like the GD with its 3 tank battalions and 6 Infantry battalions) and you have enough tactical options to deal with any scenario.

Of course by having more units than you use, the experience is spread around and the units will be lower in stars, but I've managed without problems so far. I also tried to do a more historical corps built around the 3rd and 4th Panzer, two divisions that fought together for the first few years of the war, with the 4th being probably the most decorated Wehrmacht PzDiv.

Gfot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:06 pm I've also done this (try to represent a historical corps) since PzC 1, built around the 3rd Panzer division.

However, in the Wehrmacht, the level at which units had distinct equipment was the battalion level. For example, the first two battalions of an artillery regiment were 10.5cm, and the 3rd was 15cm. Similarly, (ideally, in practice only GD achieved this) one battalion of each panzergrenadier regiment was supposed to be mechanized and the other motorized; in most Panzer Divisions one battalion in a Panzer Regiment was supposed to be equipped with Panthers and the other with Panzer IVs. Furthermore, battalions had their own history, often being transferred between regiments and divisions (for example the 3rd Panzer Div III/ArtRgt 75 was originally II/ArtRgt 49, a corps level unit that had been attached to the division since the beginning of the war). Finally, and perhaps most importantly, battalions of each division often fought in different combat teams and could be found pretty far from each other.

For all those reasons each of my units= 1 battalion. So, a midwar Panzer Div would have 1 Pioniere, 4 Wehr Infantry (or 2 Grenadier and 2 Wehr Infantry), 1 Kradschutzen, 1 Recon, 3 Artillery, 2 Panzer (one PzIII, one PzIV), 1 PzJg and 1 Flak unit. But for an offensive scenario, I would perhaps only field the two tank units, the pioneers, only the mechanized battalions of infantry, one or two of the artillery battalions, a SP PzJg (or StuG) and a Flak unit. Typically I would field two such "combat teams" supported by corps assets such as 21cm or 17cm Heavy Artillery, nebelwerfer, additional Flak and pioneer units. But for a defensive scenario like Saarbrucken I'd go infantry and artillery heavy, and 5 Inf (+Krad) and 3 Artillery units per divisions means I'd have enough Artillery and Infantry to cover all objectives. Please note that a few divisions had 3 tank battalions for several years, and I find the third battalion an ideal place for captured/prototype equipment. The historical units I prefer are the 3rd Panzer (seems to have been involved in many PzC 1 and PzC 2 battles, took part in SCW/Czechoslovakia, had 3 tank battalions in the first couple of years in the eastern front with the third being intended as a submersible tank unit, its divisional history is widely available), the 6th Panzer (started out as Light division, used Czech tanks in the early years, had a 3rd, independent tank battalion). Just those two formations (3rd and 6th), give me the option of fielding 0-6 tank units, 0-10 infantry (including up to 2 pioniere), 0-2 Krad, 0-2 Recon, 0-6 Artillery, 0-2 AT, 0-2 Flak, and that is before taking into account any corps level units. Add a third division (especially something like the GD with its 3 tank battalions and 6 Infantry battalions) and you have enough tactical options to deal with any scenario.

Of course by having more units than you use, the experience is spread around and the units will be lower in stars, but I've managed without problems so far. I also tried to do a more historical corps built around the 3rd and 4th Panzer, two divisions that fought together for the first few years of the war, with the 4th being probably the most decorated Wehrmacht PzDiv.

I generally on paper totally agree with you. However...some compromises I felt had to be made for gameplay reasons which ultimately restrict following your strict historical outline.

First off, if one copies your model you end up with a too infantry unit heavy ratio to tanks. You see for years players (Edmon for example) who only deploy a handful of infantry and way more tanks in their core than I ever did, but to follow your model that disproportionate number of infantry units even for me would be a problem, especially in offensive battles that aren't urban slogs. Secondly, that's too many artillery units for my gameplay tastes as well (and as a result I use only 2 artillery units, I. and II. Abteilungen). Therefore, I consider all infantry units in the game regiment in size, except for engineers and bridging (which were actually smaller than even a company in size. And early war panzer divisions only had 2 battalions of artillery per regiment anyway; it was only after the winter 40/41 reorganization did most of them gain a III art.abt.)

You can see a detail of my core at the end of AO41 earlier in this thread. I too went with the 3. Panzer Division mainly for historical reasons. Its Pz.Rgt. 6 was the one that went to Spain so there's that. I love Afrika Corps and in anticipation of there being later one, it's Pz.Rgt. 5 (and other units) formed the basis of the 5. Light Division/21. Panzer Division.

I originally did 2. Light Division/7. Panzer as my second division in AO39 also because it did have a III. Panzer Abteilung (the original one from 2. Light), but ran into a awkward problem when I got to AO40 with Rommel So on a replays later I began making it the 4. Panzer-Division for the same reason you gave and it contained the most decorated Pz.Abt. in the Wehrmacht!

In AO39 that's when you need infantry units. Since they build exp slowly compared to tanks and bombers, I invested heavily right away (I of course had no knowledge of the training missions that were to come later). So I formed the 2. Infantrerie-Division (mot) and that evolved into why I chose the 12. Panzer-Division as my third historical unit. I took the third infantry unit from it and renamed it and made it the second inf unit in 3. Panzer near the end of AO40. Renamed/organized 2. Infantry (mot) into 12. Panzer, and contiued 4. Panzer. Beginning with the Azul gift inf unit, I decided to use it as the slow foundation of my Großdeutschland Division (a personal favorite of mine). My two leftover FSJ units from those battles from AO40 and Crete will eventually probably be the basis of my next and last division in AO43, the 29. Panzergrenadier-Division.

I have another core that I started (without importing) in AO41, and it is much smaller for lots of obvious reasons. I choose to do that one totally different, also for lots of reasons. In it I have 2nd, 6th, and 7th Panzer Divisions. And a Legion Azul regiment for whom I picked a blue (Soviet) camo which looks cool.

Anyway, that's what and why I do what I do. Do you find too many infantry units in your core with your setup, or not a problem?

I agree with Adiekmann, his ideas are really close to mine in this sense, but of course your approach is very reasonable, too, Gfot The problem would definitely be the over-crowdedness of infantry (and, I guess, artillery, too). This game is named Panzer Corps, with all its pros and cons.

However, I should also say a few words about the artillery. In basic sense, I use the "majority" model, e.g.if the Artillery Regiment of most divisions had two battalions of 10,5 cm and one (much smaller) battalion of 15 cm I would definitely use 10,5 cm model, except for some elite units who should get some more diversity and variety in its weapons, as well as more firepower to show their privileged status and access to better armaments and more skilled manpower (another option here is the unit which had almost equal shares of different equipment like both light and heavy howitzers, than you're free to choose it up to your taste). But it doesn't mean that I won't use any kinds of heavier-than-light-howitzer artillery! I'll just make a series of templates, named "Higher-Formation Assets" (there is already a section for them in the Index, which would definitely include Corps-, Army- and Army Group-level units, and in first place — their heavy artillery! So it could be portrayed in my system as well without any troubles, just not on the divisional level (as I've said before, the player more or less performs the duties of a Corps commander for the most of the game — so he would heave a few different divisions/brigades in his core, and the corps-level assets as well!).

Regarding the separate use of battalions and their own history — yes, that's true as well, but the game is on a shaky balance between operative and strategic levels of combat, while battalions are, unfortunately, purely tactical formations. A battalion has no chance to take the entire city, while in the game it happens regularly. So that's why I still go for regimental base scale, but of course I'm using battalions as well — just following the historical templates and necessary proportions. The only big exception is armoured units, because, as I've already mentioned, that's a game about tanks, and for a satisfying gameplay you could make battalions a base for your armoured units, while the rest should follow the usual regimental drill. Of course I'm not insisting that my system is perfect or something, that's just my vision how to make historical templates both playable and plausible. The game isn't very serious in that regard, and of course all approaches (as well as none) could exist and be used by the players!

adiekmann wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:38 pm
Anyway, that's what and why I do what I do. Do you find too many infantry units in your core with your setup, or not a problem?

Perhaps I didn't explain this properly but I don't field them all in every scenario. If it's an offensive one, from each division I field the two tank units (three if playing with 3rd and 6th Panzer), the pioniere, 1 battalion of (mechanised) infantry, 1-2 battalions of Artillery, 1 Krad + 1 Armored car recon battalions and a Divisional HQ unit (either Panzer II or Armored cars). So if I am using 2 divisions, I will be fielding 4-6 units of tanks, 2-6 Artillery (including corps battalions like 21cm, nebelwerfer, Sturmpanzers, StuGs etc.), 4-7 infantry (including one Gebirgsjaeger unit I field in most scenarios and/or a corps pioniere unit), 2-3 Flak, 2-3 AT. For defensive ones I go infantry heavy. In Saarbrucken I had all 4 wehr infantry battalions, all 3 Artillery Abteilungen (+2 21cm), 3 Flak, 1 AT, 3 tank, one recon unit. In Abbeville I had a similar force from the 3rd Panzer, plus 2 Tank battalions, 1 Artillery Btn, 1 AT, 1 Flak and 2 Infantry Btns from 6th Panzer. And so on and so forth. The disadvantage is that by not fighting in every battle, some units can get left behind in xp/stars, but the only thing you need the extra inf and artillery for is to hold objectives when defending and you can put them in easier and/or less busy sectors, so you can get away with using less experienced units. One the flipside, I never have to buy units to adjust my force, I buy them beforehand (I try to match it to their historical debut) and switch them in and out as needed. So all my 3rd Pz Inf and Art was bought in Czechoslovakia, all my 6th Div units in Battle of the Bzura, 6 Fallshirmjaeger were bought in Denmark, 6 Gebirgsjaeger (and remember, I only use 1) were bought in Fornebu, etc.

But I do understand the compromise you both propose and it makes sense in terms of tank/infantry balance. I just find it impractical to try to play with understrength units. Maybe I am missing something. How do you set the strength to 7 anyway, console? And what happens when you suffer casualties and want to reinforce?

Gfot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:49 pm

adiekmann wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:38 pm
Anyway, that's what and why I do what I do. Do you find too many infantry units in your core with your setup, or not a problem?

But I do understand the compromise you both propose and it makes sense in terms of tank/infantry balance. I just find it impractical to try to play with understrength units. Maybe I am missing something. How do you set the strength to 7 anyway, console? And what happens when you suffer casualties and want to reinforce?

I do not play with understrength units either. I agree with you. I just don't find it practical or just a matter of going too far. For me. I also don't go as far as you to mirror artillery type and tank type allocation. I personally feel that goes too far also and takes away from gameplay fun vs. adding to it. But I'm sure there are those reading this thread who feel the same about bothering to rename and organize units historically. So to each their own.

I obviously cannot deploy all of my units virtually ever either. I do try to stick to their "divisions" when possible (and I use different camo schemes to help identify them) but gameplay reasons (e.g. map needs, slot space) usually make that impossible, and I'm okay with that. All of this thread is about what's enjoyable for the player and we can all do as we please.

I have in PC1 (and in PG2) sometimes played where I set self-imposed "rules" like no two units can be exactly alike to force diversity, especially in the Afrika Korps campaigns. But I haven't tried to do anything like that yet with PC2.

As far as how to set max strength, you can use this cheat: setany max_core_slots X. That way each time you click for replacements it will not go past that number. In the unit display on the bottom of the screen you'll see its strength as 7/7 or whatever.

One of the joys of PzC2 (and PzC 1) is that each of us can tailor it to how they want to play. In PzC1, I even used a savegame editor to change the pictures and names of heroes to match Knight's cross holders from the 3rd Panzer. But I think I've highjacked this (excellent) thread enough, I will go back to enjoying the showcase of Khancotlette's great work.

Gfot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:49 pm But I do understand the compromise you both propose and it makes sense in terms of tank/infantry balance. I just find it impractical to try to play with understrength units. Maybe I am missing something. How do you set the strength to 7 anyway, console? And what happens when you suffer casualties and want to reinforce?

That's mostly for the scenario design, it can be set in the editor. In the game, via console (setany strength; setany max_strength), too, but that's something inconvenient for me. For a usual singleplayer gameplay I'm just proposing the layout, because the enemies won't use the same battalions as you do, so the newly-bought units should be of their usual (15, 10) strength — that means that battalions wouldn't be understrengthened if you're just playing regularly. But if you're setting a scenario with historically-accurate unit proportions, you could use this system for both the player and the AI side, and then it would be balanced. But of course I'm not suggesting to use strength-7-units in one of AO scenarios against all these '15s', '18s', '20s' and so on