Slitherine

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:45 pm

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 11:33 am Yes, I was informed that RBS would be introducing an official plains option to the game, so I have not released my mod. There is no need for it now!

Yes,thanks for the working of the mod too Mr.Paul,by the way I wanna ask,are you making the new unit textures/models for the game or not?

That is very unlikely at the moment.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:48 pm

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:45 pm

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 11:33 am Yes, I was informed that RBS would be introducing an official plains option to the game, so I have not released my mod. There is no need for it now!

Yes,thanks for the working of the mod too Mr.Paul,by the way I wanna ask,are you making the new unit textures/models for the game or not?

That is very unlikely at the moment.

Thanks for the answer.

The v1.1.7 update is just a hot fix for the Mediterranean Woods issue.

Plains maps are scheduled for the free update accompanying the release of the next DLC.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:32 am The v1.1.7 update is just a hot fix for the Mediterranean Woods issue.

Plains maps are scheduled for the free update accompanying the release of the next DLC.

Thank you good sir.I really appreciate that you are listening suggestion and feedbacks from the players who love the game.By the way,the new "Medieval" deploy system really not works well in AI's hands,it's still not much different from the default,AI still tend to deploy much of their cavalry on the rear and flanks.Maybe should have a adjust to make the AI purchase more knights and place them infront of the infantry,it will be more "Historical" and a bit harder to deal with(Last time I used a Ghibelline army with 12+ knights and place them in front then defeated a Papal army quickly with zero routed on the Baron difficulty.Ghibellines used the same tactic in the Battle of Campaldino,1289AD,but unfortunately they lost).

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:13 pm (...)
By the way,the new "Medieval" deploy system really not works well in AI's hands,it's still not much different from the default,AI still tend to deploy much of their cavalry on the rear and flanks.Maybe should have a adjust to make the AI purchase more knights and place them infront of the infantry,it will be more "Historical" and a bit harder to deal with
(...)

Interestingly, Jean de Bueil (1406-1478), who fought many battles during late HYW, gives as an advice in his book Le Jouvencel, to "never place mounted MAA in front of the infantry because, when the MAA are repelled, they often hit this infantry with the chest of their horses, scattering/disordering them and routing them, so the cavalry must be put on the wings, not in front." And he provides the example of the French defeat of Verneuil (1424) he had participated in (as a page).

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:40 am

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:13 pm (...)
By the way,the new "Medieval" deploy system really not works well in AI's hands,it's still not much different from the default,AI still tend to deploy much of their cavalry on the rear and flanks.Maybe should have a adjust to make the AI purchase more knights and place them infront of the infantry,it will be more "Historical" and a bit harder to deal with
(...)

Interestingly, Jean de Bueil (1406-1478), who fought many battles during late HYW, gives as an advice in his book Le Jouvencel, to "never place mounted MAA in front of the infantry because, when the MAA are repelled, they often hit this infantry with the chest of their horses, scattering/disordering them and routing them, so the cavalry must be put on the wings, not in front." And he provides the example of the French defeat of Verneuil (1424) he had participated in (as a page).

For the French just make sure not to put your crossbowmen in front of the mounted MAA!

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:40 am

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:13 pm (...)
By the way,the new "Medieval" deploy system really not works well in AI's hands,it's still not much different from the default,AI still tend to deploy much of their cavalry on the rear and flanks.Maybe should have a adjust to make the AI purchase more knights and place them infront of the infantry,it will be more "Historical" and a bit harder to deal with
(...)

Interestingly, Jean de Bueil (1406-1478), who fought many battles during late HYW, gives as an advice in his book Le Jouvencel, to "never place mounted MAA in front of the infantry because, when the MAA are repelled, they often hit this infantry with the chest of their horses, scattering/disordering them and routing them, so the cavalry must be put on the wings, not in front." And he provides the example of the French defeat of Verneuil (1424) he had participated in (as a page).

This is just a suggest,not the common practice.You should know this was a rare practice in the Medieval,the practices of many battles revealed that most of the Medieval army were tend to put the Knights/MAAs on the front,including those who mounted or dismounted.And dismounted was an uncommon practice for the French before the middle of the 14th century(Plus,the thread should not be necro,the problem was solved long time ago so the thread was finished).

Don't NECRO the thread please,if you wanna discuss something within the thread I think we can find a better place than this grave,thanks.

Dux Limitis wrote:

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:40 am

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:13 pm (...)
By the way,the new "Medieval" deploy system really not works well in AI's hands,it's still not much different from the default,AI still tend to deploy much of their cavalry on the rear and flanks.Maybe should have a adjust to make the AI purchase more knights and place them infront of the infantry,it will be more "Historical" and a bit harder to deal with
(...)

Interestingly, Jean de Bueil (1406-1478), who fought many battles during late HYW, gives as an advice in his book Le Jouvencel, to "never place mounted MAA in front of the infantry because, when the MAA are repelled, they often hit this infantry with the chest of their horses, scattering/disordering them and routing them, so the cavalry must be put on the wings, not in front." And he provides the example of the French defeat of Verneuil (1424) he had participated in (as a page).

This is just a suggest,not the common practice.

The guy did in his life more than just making suggestions, he also gave orders (such as at the Battle of St. Jakob an der Birs) and participated in quite a few battles. So it is interesting to know what a someone of the 15th century who was a MAA, a captain of an Ordonnance company, a commander of troops thought in terms of order of battle, about what he actually did and what he would have done. And you can imagine how putting horses in front was actually a bad idea.

When Jean de Bueil tell you that you should put your MAA on the wings, you (or the AI) can play your custom battles with MAA on the wings without feeling you play it unhistorically. You just play it wisely following the advice of someone of the time who knows.

As for knowing what "the common practice" was and how many exceptions of it there were...

As for "necro"...

btw the opposite (placing shooting units in front MAA) also proved to be a bad idea at least once and for the same reason.

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 5:57 pm

Dux Limitis wrote:

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:40 am

Interestingly, Jean de Bueil (1406-1478), who fought many battles during late HYW, gives as an advice in his book Le Jouvencel, to "never place mounted MAA in front of the infantry because, when the MAA are repelled, they often hit this infantry with the chest of their horses, scattering/disordering them and routing them, so the cavalry must be put on the wings, not in front." And he provides the example of the French defeat of Verneuil (1424) he had participated in (as a page).

This is just a suggest,not the common practice.

The guy did in his life more than just making suggestions, he also gave orders (such as at the Battle of St. Jakob an der Birs) and participated in quite a few battles. So it is interesting to know what a someone of the 15th century who was a MAA, a captain of an Ordonnance company, a commander of troops thought in terms of order of battle, about what he actually did and what he would have done. And you can imagine how putting horses in front was actually a bad idea.

When Jean de Bueil tell you that you should put your MAA on the wings, you (or the AI) can play your custom battles with MAA on the wings without feeling you play it unhistorically. You just play it wisely following the advice of someone of the time who knows.

As for knowing what "the common practice" was and how many exceptions of it there were...

As for "necro"...

btw the opposite (placing shooting units in front MAA) also proved to be a bad idea at least once and for the same reason.

Then let's talk about the common practices.
I'll list some representative battles which putted knights or mounted MAAs on the front from the High Medieval to Late.The Battle of Civitate,Hastings(And most of the battles of the Norman conquest),Bremule,Zallaqa,Legnano,Las Navas De Tolosa,Muret,Bouvines,Lake Peipus,Benevento,Marchfeld,Campaldino,Courtrai,Kephistos,Mons en Pévèle,Varey,Altopascio,Crécy,Nicopolis,Tannenberg,Patéy,Formigny etc.(Haven't list the Crusader's yet)To conclusion,at least it's a common practice in High Medieval and still sometimes in Late Medieval.

In High Medieval,this tactic has proved itself useful many times,especially when attacking those undetermined infantry.And the French was so stubborn at this tactic even the ground was not favor for this tactic like the Courtrai and the Kephistos(Frankish-Athenians),after suffered a disastrous defeat at the Crécy,they finally let most of the MAAs to fought dismounted.But sometimes if they think the old ways can trample down the enemies they'll still do it without think,like the Battle of Nicopolis,I remember the Jean Le Meingre argued about this with the Sigismund of Luxemburg just before the battle,because the Sigismund want to let the infantry to attack the Ottomans first.

I know,sometimes this tactic is no better than the suicide like the Frenchmen already proved several times,but it's indeed a common practice of that time,and the Frenchmen indeed learnt something from before,so at the Poitiers,Agincourt and the Verneuil,they deployed their mounted MAAs on the flanks,but still,not yet a common practice,it became a common practice not until the last years of the 15th century as well as the Renaissance.And I think the dismounted MAAs still playing the same role of the mounted MAAs on the front,just because they knew fought mounted at there was not a good idea,same as the Imperial MAAs dismounted at the Sandomierz/Sandomir,1420 AD,in order to attack the Hussite war wagons.