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Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:37 pm
by goose_2
faos333 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:14 pm
The infantry puzzle in 43:
Gebirgsjager_43.png
1943 is the year of the final upgrades. All infantry units except Kradschützen get their equivalent upgrade.
So, the player is faced with many choices of how to upgrade.
By this time infantry has been accumulated from all previous years. But there is more to come in GC 43.
Orel map and the infantry puzzle.
With the free addition of two more Gebirsjaeger 43 units in Orel turn 2 (Bruno Sutkus and Josef Allenberger), the question arises, as to how many infantry the player should develop and carry over till the end in 45.
The whole matter gets more complicated because in GC 44 we get one more, free Gebirsjaeger 43 (Hetzenauer).
If you think it over, there is NO need to have three more Gebirsjaeger in your core, assuming you have already some. Simply put it, the design of the maps do not call most of the time, for more than two Gebirsjaeger each time. Also, Gebirsjaeger, although upgraded in 43 version, are not that great.
After 43 Panzer Grenadier are considered by most great players as the best type of infantry. Simply, look at the stats! They are tank killers soft attack 7, hard attack 8.
So, what to do with these free Gebirsjaeger 43?
They carry excellent heroes like: Bruno Sutkus: + D2, +Ini 2, Spot1, Exp 285, Josef Allenberger: +A2, +D2, +Ini 3, Exp 285 and in 44 Matthaus Hetzenauer +D3, +Ini 3, +Mov1 Exp 260.
My suggestion is to start using them in your core Asap. Get kills, get more heroes and more stars.
What about their equipment? Should they stay mountain units?
Better, no. In my case, I upgraded with a little delay, to Wehrmacht 43, much better stats. I lost the SE SdKfz 250/1 halftrack, because is very expensive when adding over strength and raises the soft cup. An important issue especially for those playing Rommel, or Ultimate diff.
If any of them gets a movement hero, asap Pz Grenadier.
If you still consider it, but hesitate what to do:
Look at your core, you will find mediocre infantry heroes, that you use them out of necessity or habit. Well, disband the below average ones. Yes, because by seating there lots of time triggers you, to use, develop, get a hero etc.
As a final note, by the end of GC 45 in Berlin my suggestion is to develop a total of ~10 infantry units with 5 stars and if possible with 2-3 heroes in each of them.
Wehrmacht_HW_43.png
Links with statistics:
https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/Infantry
https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/Pioniere_43
https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/43_Wehrmacht_Inf
https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/43_Grenadier
https://panzercorps.gamepedia.com/43_Gebirgsj%C3%A4ger
Free units GCs timetable:
viewtopic.php?t=43374&start=20
This is very good stuff, many things to consider and will be very helpful in preparing for Orel, I practiced layout and execution last night. I have to play like you and Soren laid out, and not be so aggressive on the first day out so I can draw them in, first and then decimate them. Waiting is not natural for me, but think it is necessary for this map. It is especially necessary in The North of the map.
I am not sure about the Paradrop, but am considering to pull this off. I think Soren's approach to let them seize the main objectives across the river is smart and then you can get prestige for taking them back. I may do this other places as well.
The rush in the South will need to be well thought out and very very quick based on the limited time scale.
Also your discussion of infantry is very much appreciated. I agree with so much of it, and am very pleased to get rid of those super expensive transports. I cannot afford them.
This is my thoughts on upgrades for Sutkus and Hetzy…
Sutkus has +1 Spotting. BOOM he becomes a very good Kradschutzen.
Hetzenuer becomes a regular infantry.
My current layout is trying to use infantry that has less than 4 stars and less than 2 heroes so I can get all infantry units up to 4 stars and 2 heroes.
As such Oleh Dir is getting left out on many occasions as he has 4 stars and 3 heroes. He is a beast, but I need more beasts if I am going to make it to 45.
The biggest problem with these late stage infantry is that since I am playing on Ultimate difficulty they only have 1 star of experience.
Hard to work with such weak units, but I will try.
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 pm
by faos333
goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:37 pm
..............................
As such Oleh Dir is getting left out on many occasions as he has 4 stars and 3 heroes. He is a beast, but I need more beasts if I am going to make it to 45.
The biggest problem with these late stage infantry is that since I am playing on Ultimate difficulty they only have 1 star of experience.
Hard to work with such weak units, but I will try.
Thanks for your comments, Goose.
In the South attack, after you eliminate their initial attacking forces, it is quicker, since its shorter distance with fewer guarding units.
The Orel map offers the highest prestige in 43, which is 7000 for DV and 100 per turn if soft cap 100%.
Good opportunity to grasp the much needed prestige for Ultimate.
My defense in the North is inspired from Braccada Rommel 43 play through.
Good Good point about Bruno Sutkus !
I agree 100% about not using Ole Dir that much, letting others to get exp.
Small note about the new units they are lagging in exp yes, but they are two stars and with a little help in kills they quickly become three stars.
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:01 pm
by faos333
To get everybody, in a more historical mood for the upcoming posts.
There is a series of battles in GC 43, which are directly related to the Kursk battle in Summer 43.
Orel, Yakovlevo, Oboyan, Kursk South Armory (don’t know if based on real facts), Prokhorovka, in case the player follows the south attack path.
In the past lots of time I was wondering, while playing Pz Corps, where the exact location of all these are, in relation to the historical data.
So, I found this map and added the historical places of Pz Corps battlegrounds.
- kursk-battles-pzc.JPG (120.25 KiB) Viewed 3334 times
For those interested in historical data, have a look into these great videos with map references from Ace Destroyer. and Kings and Generals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyyKhm5h6Ww&t=271s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8qosO ... d7RaXQwnZK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtD2kht1ZI
Also, in recent years there have been
many articles analyzing with lots of historical details the Battle of Kursk, Operation Citadel in 43.
Like this.
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:09 pm
by goose_2
Great Map. I started Orel last night. Started with a 100% soft cap, but Sutkus and Hetzeneur have put me over, of course. I have taken some damage so I am at about 94%. This should be a knock down drag out fight.
Hoping that I crack it.
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:16 pm
by faos333
goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:09 pm
Great Map. I started Orel last night. Started with a 100% soft cap, but Sutkus and Hetzeneur have put me over, of course. I have taken some damage so I am at about 94%. This should be a knock down drag out fight.
Hoping that I crack it.
Good, Good, Good, a small correction is J Allerberger, Hetzenauer comes in 44
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:39 pm
by goose_2
yeah whoops I meant Allerberger
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:45 pm
by faos333
4] Yakovlevo
Yakovlevo is the starting battle of Kursk 43 operation.
Things are getting tougher, since we join the attack from the South, which is mainly an armor spearhead towards Kursk.
The weather is great aiding air operations. AI experience is still 2 stars.
In my opinion this is the last map Pioneers are of any use in 43, since there are no more battles involving mine fields.
Units deployed:
In total 8 infantry, of which two paratroopers
8 tanks: 6 Tigers, one PzIVH, one Pz IIIM
3 StuGs
11 artillery pieces
Anti-air: 88 x2, mobile flak x1
Airforce: 9 units 5 fighters, two Stukas, one HS 129, two level bombers
One Recon
The map offers three mobile flaks as aux units
I mostly followed Braccada strategy as shown in his 43 Rommel playthrough. Thus, implementing a pincer movement from the East and attacking Yakovlevo from the North.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkd415k ... J&index=11
Recently, Soren played this map on Manstein with a different approach, using a frontal – smashing attack. Amazing video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO9mKjqBHss
Starting prestige before upgrades +70 k
End in turn 20 with a DV.
Any comments welcome
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:45 pm
by faos333
- GC43 map plan yakovlevo.JPG (113.28 KiB) Viewed 3273 times
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:46 pm
by faos333
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen1.JPG (187.3 KiB) Viewed 3272 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen2.JPG (187.37 KiB) Viewed 3272 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen3.JPG (169.87 KiB) Viewed 3272 times
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:47 pm
by faos333
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen4.JPG (186.68 KiB) Viewed 3271 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen5.JPG (172.8 KiB) Viewed 3271 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen6.JPG (180.3 KiB) Viewed 3271 times
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:48 pm
by faos333
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen7.JPG (168.76 KiB) Viewed 3270 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen8.JPG (184.8 KiB) Viewed 3270 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen9.JPG (176.16 KiB) Viewed 3270 times
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:49 pm
by faos333
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen10.JPG (172.47 KiB) Viewed 3268 times
- gc43-yakovlevo-screen11.JPG (167.62 KiB) Viewed 3268 times
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:52 pm
by PeteMitchell
Very nice illustrations!
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:37 pm
by goose_2
scary...watching your assessment and half of sorens. I am kind of scared
I think I am going to have to dig super deep and go for broke to try and break these maps on Ultimate. No more 100% softcap
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:24 am
by faos333
goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:37 pm
scary...watching your assessment and half of sorens. I am kind of scared
I think I am going to have to dig super deep and go for broke to try and break these maps on Ultimate. No more 100% softcap
We are going to do fine.
Yakovlevo is not a case for a decisive victory. With only 15 turns and many fortifications on the way to the north, simply there is not much time.
Besides the map offers only 2.000 prestige (soft cap 100%) and 50 per turn. If you take out prestige for replacements this is very little.
Best to settle for a marginal victory overall, kill farming and get experience for less combat ready units. In such a case take a look on my plan and avoid frontal attack.
The same logic applies also to Oboyan, although it offers 5.000 prestige for DV. Go for marginal and thus save you money and trouble.
It is the toughest battle of 43 together with Prokhorovka. Map geography and defense fortifications do not allow a quick win.
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:14 pm
by goose_2
faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:24 am
goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:37 pm
scary...watching your assessment and half of sorens. I am kind of scared
I think I am going to have to dig super deep and go for broke to try and break these maps on Ultimate. No more 100% softcap
We are going to do fine.
Yakovlevo is not a case for a decisive victory. With only 15 turns and many fortifications on the way to the north, simply there is not much time.
Besides the map offers only 2.000 prestige (soft cap 100%) and 50 per turn. If you take out prestige for replacements this is very little.
Best to settle for a marginal victory overall, kill farming and get experience for less combat ready units. In such a case take a look on my plan and avoid frontal attack.
The same logic applies also to Oboyan, although it offers 5.000 prestige for DV. Go for marginal and thus save you money and trouble.
It is the toughest battle of 43 together with Prokhorovka. Map geography and defense fortifications do not allow a quick win.
What your saying makes so much sense. If you watched Richard Martin's playthrough of these maps he took the same approach. It would be wiser to hold my powder and save up for the latter years of the war when I will really, really need it.
But the thing is, I want to do the impossible. I want to break all of the Kursk maps, and play the Kursk Armory maps, which would be blind for me, as I have never played them or watched anyone's playthrough of them.
My goal is to show it is possible, as I laid out in my playthrough this morning of Tatsinskaya. I am willing to go to the matt to get it done, even if it means I finish 43 with 20k instead of the $30k I am hoping for
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:19 pm
by faos333
goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:14 pm
........... My goal is to show it is possible, as I laid out in my playthrough this morning of Tatsinskaya. I am willing to go to the matt to get it done, even if it means I finish 43 with 20k instead of the $30k I am hoping for
Prokhorovka is then the ideal target for you to break the map.
Not the bonus map of South Armory, which is not suited for a decisive, very few turns to accomplish things.
So go for real battle instead of others.
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:19 pm
by goose_2
faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:19 pm
goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:14 pm
........... My goal is to show it is possible, as I laid out in my playthrough this morning of Tatsinskaya. I am willing to go to the matt to get it done, even if it means I finish 43 with 20k instead of the $30k I am hoping for
Prokhorovka is then the ideal target for you to break the map.
Not the bonus map of South Armory, which is not suited for a decisive, very few turns to accomplish things.
So go for real battle instead of others.
Dude!!! I think it came to me. Where my best thinking always takes place I had a eureka moment about the Yako map. Following a similar path to Sorens with a simple yet minor tweak which I believe makes the whole thing not only possible but actually might make it inevitable. I will be so happy if it works
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:43 pm
by faos333
goose_2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:19 pm
faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:19 pm
goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:14 pm
........... My goal is to show it is possible, as I laid out in my playthrough this morning of Tatsinskaya. I am willing to go to the matt to get it done, even if it means I finish 43 with 20k instead of the $30k I am hoping for
Prokhorovka is then the ideal target for you to break the map.
Not the bonus map of South Armory, which is not suited for a decisive, very few turns to accomplish things.
So go for real battle instead of others.
Dude!!! I think it came to me. Where my best thinking always takes place I had a eureka moment about the Yako map. Following a similar path to Sorens with a simple yet minor tweak which I believe makes the whole thing not only possible but actually might make it inevitable. I will be so happy if it works
this is great news, waiting for this one
Re: Never Ending Game... Campaign Log 43 East Manstein diff
Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pm
by PeteMitchell
Goose... You should consider a new name here on the forum... how about the_map_breaker )))