Slitherine

not liked MInes
MINES


mINES

goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:58 pm not liked MInes
MINES


mINES

...

ANd how 'bout PARTIsaNS D'you fancy THEm?

McGuba wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:45 am ANd how 'bout PARTIsaNS D'you fancy THEm?

I don't mind the Conscripts. They are annoying but I know how to combat them. Mines are not easy to get rid of, not at all.

goose_2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:43 pm

McGuba wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:45 am ANd how 'bout PARTIsaNS D'you fancy THEm?

I don't mind the Conscripts. They are annoying but I know how to combat them. Mines are not easy to get rid of, not at all.

You need to use destroyers and sometimes also tactical bombers. Every unit is valuable and has its purpose in this mod...

Maybe you could even call it an "utilitarian" mod?

I have used destroyers and tac bombers with frustrating results

goose_2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:35 pm I have used destroyers and tac bombers with frustrating results

That's all there is I think...

What I liked most from playing BE v2.0: the intense historical realism of the Mod.

Specifically, the alternative history what if paths of the scenario, clearly there are several ways to play. The tactical overall situation to give some examples: the oil crisis, the bitter winter 41, units transported to home land for an upgrade, family types of units like Panzer III to Panther. The lower attack values of units, no more one dive one unit kill, the almost real sound effects, the historical graphics of units. And so many other things, all adding a REALISTIC feeling from operation Barbarossa and much beyond.

More disliked: the sea mines, especially the inability to sweep them, a mine sweeper would be awesome

What to do next: play again, but this time I got the knowledge to avoid so many misunderstandings and bad decisions….

More thoughts to come shortly

More thoughts and conclusions after playing the Battlefield Europe Mod:

More Liked:
The Oil Crisis, so……. True……….
The heroes in game and the approach for their development
The upgrade mechanics units to be brought back home
The camo effect of anti tank units, absolutely marvelous
The upgrade units paths eg PzIII to Panther
The lower attack results for flak, artillery etc
The sounds are incredible, especially Me 109 sound effects like a real DB Daimler Benz engine
The units’ icons are perfect
The ambient music in the background
The V1 and V2 rockets
The many different approaches to play and win the scenario

More disliked:
Losing the single tank in N. Afrika, I had to reload to save it
Inability to buy more fighters and or artillery
The mines, destroyers are not great in dealing with them and tactical bombers also
The big guns like Karl G,erat low performance in kills
The Brandenburg low strength value, makes them difficult to use
Not enough units slots to buy mines in 44

Proposals for units’ usage:
Infantry:
The most experienced units should be upgraded to Pioneers and Pz Grenadiers, their total numbers 3+3 a pair in each of the three fronts in the east

Cavalry:
Very effective! Yes it is not a joke, It is great very versatile usage and cheap! I think is a good idea to "down grade" 3 inf to cavalry from the beginning

Artillery:
Wurfrahmen a worthwhile upgrade, but its range should be increased
All artillery units should be over-strengthened and not move too much around
Italian Semovente artillery proved very useful with good kills ratio
10.5 artillery good Rof, but not very effective later against armor
StuG artillery great back up against tanks

Armor:
There are two paths one is for PzIVG the other is for Panthers, choose wisely
Stug ATs proved to be a life saver, so is a priority to upgrade using AT units with heroes

Air:
In the West only Fw 190
In the East the Me 109 is fine
New fighters go for combat training in the East
Me 110 to Stukas all the time
The more experienced Level Bombers +1 over strength

Flak:
In 1941 the starting mobile flak in the east, is rather useless, try to upgrade them asap
In addition to the above, move some flak from the west to the east, after upgrading them to 88s and mobile Flaks, is absolutely important.
Do not hesitate, since in the west air raids are not so important in changing the final outcome.

Subs:
Take care of those one with heroes
Use them in wolf packs tactics

Capital ships:
In Mediterranean waters are important, but all the rest not so useful until you invade England

Ideas for the start of a replay strategy:
A] In 1941 the player should go for Malta as well, otherwise is very easy to fall on the losing path: Allies take Tunis, Sicily, Italy surrenders, US air force in the west gets insane etc

B] Study your units, identify your starting heroes and start developing them asap

C] Give elite replacements to few selected units with heroes and or enough exp. The worst thing to happen is after 43 to fight with a single star and non upgraded infantry against heavy armor

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Finally, share your play through its great to hear from every one playing it.
Any more comments welcomed

I can agree with most of what you wrote...

One question: is the Wurfrahmen upgrade really worth it? I found it very expensive but I can imagine its mobility / speed is helpful

PeteMitchell wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:40 pm I can agree with most of what you wrote...

One question: is the Wurfrahmen upgrade really worth it? I found it very expensive but I can imagine its mobility / speed is helpful

According to its results yes, it proved to be one of my top performers, actually second best in kills, much much better than other types

faos333 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:31 pm More thoughts and conclusions after playing the Battlefield Europe Mod:

Thanks for your thoughts. To be honest, while it is nice to learn what players like about the mod, for me it is more important to learn what they dislike as it shows where it could be improved. So let's see them:

faos333 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:52 pm More disliked: the sea mines, especially the inability to sweep them, a mine sweeper would be awesome

The mines, destroyers are not great in dealing with them and tactical bombers also

I am aware that probably this is the biggest pain for most players of the mod (and the other one could be partisans, I guess). In theory I would agree as in reality there were indeed minesweepers all over in ww2, however I think this change would unbalance the mod and would make it much easier. Mainly in single player as the AI would be unable to realize the importance of minesweepers and it would see them just like any other units.

In the mod naval mines have an important role to restrict the movements of the naval units at various areas, whithout these it would be much easier to do unhistorical things like bombarding Leningrad from the sea or easily surprise and sink the British Home Fleet at Scapa Flow.

Also in reality the sweeping of naval mines was a rather time consuming and dangerous process, and cleaning the naval minefields lasted for years even after the end or ww2. And yet they still find naval mines from the war up to these days:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-48327618

Losing the single tank in N. Afrika, I had to reload to save it

Yes it is indeed fairly easy to lose it. And even easier to lose it in multiplayer. And it can really be a game changer if it happens.

Not sure how I could fix it, perhaps the Axis side should get a replacement tank unit at sea ready to be sent to Africa in case the Rommel tank unit is lost? But I guess only until about turn 30 or something like that.

Inability to buy more fighters and or artillery

Luckily this is mostly fixed in the current v2.2 version as the Axis player can decide to retrain some strat bombers to fighters from early on (even if it takes 12 turns for each) and the max core slot limit is increased in two steps (in mid '42 and '43) to 250. This should be enough in the majority of the games and players should be able to purchase a few new units from mid 42 and many more from mid 43. Available prestige is more of a limitation from mid '42 than empty core slots and players can now decide between having a larger army with weaker units or a smaller one with stronger units.

The big guns like Karl G,erat low performance in kills

These should be mainly used in the sieges of the Soviet fortresses in which they can slowly but surely reduce their strength. I think they are fine as they are and with the lifting of the core slot limitation there will be no point in disbanding or upgrading them as it is better to purchase brand new artillery units instead if necessary. So the above fixes this problem as well in my opinion.

The Brandenburg low strength value, makes them difficult to use

It is a small unit with limited actual combat value but excellent for infiltration/covert recon/surprise attack/fast respond firefighter etc. purposes. Also in multiplayer it has a major impact on the morale of the Allied player: as long as it is still alive the Allied player never knows when and where the Axis player will use it. Which can make him a bit paranoid. And once it is destroyed it is a big relief. So I think it is also good as it is.

Not enough units slots to buy mines in 44

Also fixed in v2.2, see as above.

Proposals for units’ usage:
Infantry:
The most experienced units should be upgraded to Pioneers and Pz Grenadiers, their total numbers 3+3 a pair in each of the three fronts in the east

Yes, perhaps, however, these units also require some transport which makes their upkeep even more expensive. And the AI tends to focus his attention on expensive units: they are a magnet for AI bullets, making their upkeep difficult especially with elite replacements, so...

Cavalry:
Very effective! Yes it is not a joke, It is great very versatile usage and cheap! I think is a good idea to "down grade" 3 inf to cavalry from the beginning

It is not far from reality, there were more and more of these:

"During the war German cavalry units increased in numbers from a single brigade[26] to a larger but still limited force of six cavalry divisions and two corps HQ.[26] All regular cavalry troops served on the Eastern Front[47] and the Balkans[26] and a few Cossack battalions served on the Western Front.[48]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in ... lry_troops



However, I think I need to change them a bit in the future. I do not like the fact that they can be used effectively in the desert. In reality they use camels in the desert and not horses. I am not an expert in horses but I do not think that horses would tolerate desert conditions for long. I think I would need to reduce their movement speed in desert drastically to keep it realistic.

Artillery:
Wurfrahmen a worthwhile upgrade, but its range should be increased

I would not like to increase their range as in reality they had a very short range, only about 2,000 meters. They had to go very close to the enemy. Also with range 2 these would be way to good and unbalanced units, everyone would want to purchase as many of these as possible, whereas with range 1 they are just so-so and their use can be argued for and against, which is just about perfect, I think.

Air:
In the West only Fw 190

Me 110 to Stukas all the time

I would disagree with this. I think the Me 110 is quite good in the west against the unescorted bombers until early 1944, as in reality. Even after that it is useful in that role it just needs some fighter escort.

On the other hand, in BE v2.2 three Bf 109 can be upgraded to Fw 190 in mid 1942 at a reduced price to help the transition which also happened around this time historically. The earlier upgrade to the Focke-Wulf is still possible of course but it costs full price. Which gives another interesting choice: which is better, having some Fw 190s earlier but at a higher cost or wait a bit more to get them at a reduced price?

Flak:
In 1941 the starting mobile flak in the east, is rather useless, try to upgrade them asap

I would disagree with this as well, this unit can be very helpful to provide air cover to the advancing German artillery and other vulnerable units on the move. Without them Axis artillery would suffer much higher losses to Soviet air attacks IMO.


All in all, I think most of the issues of BE v2.0 are already adressed in v2.2 so I think you should play the new version next, but of course it is up to you, no pressure.

Thank you so much for the detailed replies.
It seems that many of my "disliked" list is improved in the new version 2.2
For the single tank in N. Afrika, a replacement tank unit at sea ready seems a good idea, maybe near to Crete ( a reinforcements historical path I think)

Definitely I am going for the next version
but first I need to finish the replay that I have started already.
I plan on adding few screenshots about it, not a complete playthrough, mainly few tips and tricks I am using

Also, I am about to create the video we talked about on how to install the game.

Added conclusions from the first playthrough

Recon:
At the start of Barbarossa the player has been equipped with many good recon units, all of them have the extra recon movement so my advice is to use them a lot.
After the first phase of operations my advice is to bring back home three of them and upgrade them to Kradschützen, motorcycle infantry.

Forthcoming Replay Strategic Notes:

South Army Group strategic objectives 1941 - 1942
Below is the related HQ directive no.I/681

After securing or closing in to Rostov by end of first year, in 1942 the South Army Group has to start a Fall Blau to Oil fields only operation, preferably without attacking Stalingrad.

To this end, all the axis mountain units (4), Pein hero is one of them, plus the three Kradschützen plus the three cavalry, plus one pioneer, one Pz Grenadiers and one or two bridge units.

All these combined with enough armor (4), artillery (5-6), strategic bombers (2), Stukas (3) and enough supporting fighters and upgraded mobile flaks (2) should be diverted south of Rostov and break, fast down to Grozny and to Baku oil fields only, thus succeeding in ending the Oil Crisis early in the game, that is 1943.


For historical coverage see TIK video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzr6dD8fvVY

Forthcoming Replay Strategic Notes:

North Army Group strategic objectives 1941 - 1942
Below is the related HQ directive no.I/690

The first task of the North Army Group is to succeed in the encirclement of Bialystok- Minsk pocket, then to achieve the second encirclement in Kiev, after that press towards Moscow, in December hold the attack, create a defensive line and switch on surviving tactics, since in every turn during winter the axis player suffers from minus one strength point in the East front.

In case Moscow is not taken in 1941, the priority switches to the defense and the protection of your units in the east from suffering minus strength points. You might transfer few of them by rail to Germany to save them and then bring them back, for the 1942 final offensive towards Moscow.

After taking Moscow, in 1942 proceed to attack the Gorky to the north east of the city and push for an early attack to the “real” north city of Archangel.
For the later objective use the two paratroopers units, over strengthened as much as possible, two strategic bombers, and two infantry units to land to the airfield next to Archangel.

Then in 1943 the North Army Group, should attack and take the city of Leningrad


See the historical animation of the Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yus9N3AG_WE

Forthcoming Replay Strategic Notes:

Mediterranean - Middle East Theatre DAK strategic objectives 1941 - 1942
Below is the related HQ directive no.I/701

First DAK first priority is to defend El Alamein, then take Tobruk preferably with a German unit and simultaneously hold all incoming allies attacks from east.

Operation Hercules is of most strategic importance in 1941-42.

The siege of Malta is to start in immediately. To this end, the HQ suggests the use one over strengthened Stuka pilot with hero, one Italian tactical bomber, two strategic bombers and the nearby Mediterranean Italian fleet, the island itself to be occupied from the unit in Sicily transferred by sea. (Win in Malta offers 1000 precious prestige)

Then in 1942 DAK is not pressing any attack to Alexandria, instead focuses on preparing for a possible allied east Afrika landings (operation Torch historically). After securing the west flank in N. Afrika in 1943 and onwards DAK has the task of attacking Alexandria - Cairo, crossing the Suez Canal and advancing deep in the middle east.

Historical the Most Bombed Place on Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzK-aVvgQ4g

Siege of Malta 1940-42 [HD Colour]:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVBTaOXH1uo

faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:09 pm Also, I am about to create the video we talked about on how to install the game.

Excellent! I think if there was a youtube video or something which shows how to install and uninstall complex mods for Panzer Corps with JSGME it should be made sticky in this forum so that new players and forum members can find it easily. Maybe a moderator could help with this?

EDIT:
Actually, VPaulus has already made a step-by-step guide for that but in a text format:
viewtopic.php?f=147&t=27158

Maybe the same method could be repeated in a youtube video and then it could be placed in the same post? Hopefully VPaulus would agree to do so if there was such a video link. After all now we live in the age of youtube and there are a lot of people who prefer watching videos over reading long walls of texts...

McGuba wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:54 pm

faos333 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:09 pm Also, I am about to create the video we talked about on how to install the game.

Excellent! I think if there was a youtube video or something which shows how to install and uninstall complex mods for Panzer Corps with JSGME it should be made sticky in this forum so that new players and forum members can find it easily. Maybe a moderator could help with this?

EDIT:
Actually, VPaulus has already made a step-by-step guide for that but in a text format:
viewtopic.php?f=147&t=27158

Maybe the same method could be repeated in a youtube video and then it could be placed in the same post? Hopefully VPaulus would agree to do so if there was such a video link. After all now we live in the age of youtube and there are a lot of people who prefer watching videos over reading long walls of texts...

Great news should I ask Vpaulus with a PM?

The purpose of the replay

First and foremost is to have fun with this EPIC mode
Second to share and encourage PzC players to try it
Thirdly to use my previous attempt exp in better ways

Finally, this is not going to be a full play through.
The aim is to share tips and tricks learned from the Mod, so no month by month -turns screenshots.
Only things that add to the previous sharing.

Note the replay is about the campaign version, not the stand alone scenario