Slitherine

For me the biggest difference from OoB and PzC2 is the multiplayer playability
in OoB you are hard restricted with few multiplayer maps and combinations (player 1 vs Player 2 or Pl1+Pl1 vs AI ...)
in PzC2 this is alone with the random scenario generator much better
I can understand, for an strictly (or mostly) single play player OoB is in an good shape ..
But i musst admit - i like the OoB GFX more ...

There's a natural progression; Mod, modder, modest

Erik2 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:42 pm There's a natural progression; Mod, modder, modest

No, no, no! I am not following these links! You cannot make me!


[Note: Clicked "Archive" instead of "Delete." Or "Spam." ]

The best thing to do is suppress ones emotions and go to a games forum site and there you get a great idea of what you are getting into the things the game lacks and the upgrades the game users are screaming about needing even though it was released you get a better feel of any headaches the game has if any ... bugs all kinds of stuff ...

gunny wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:35 pm The best thing to do is suppress ones emotions and go to a games forum site and there you get a great idea of what you are getting into the things the game lacks and the upgrades the game users are screaming about needing even though it was released you get a better feel of any headaches the game has if any ... bugs all kinds of stuff ...

You are right of course, gunny. I jest above. Note the last line in that post which leaves the door open just a crack.

I bought it, largely because I saw a developer post about how A) he's Russian and has creative control, so they're not going to do something as obscenely terrible as Soviet Corps again and B) that he wants to do way more (and way better) Allied content than PzC1 got. Given that the US Corps campaign in PzC1 is still the only three grand scale allied campaign around in PzC1, PzC2 or OOB, that says something.

I think the complaints about graphics in this thread are frankly silly. While they look a little weird, you'd have to be willfully ignoring how OOB looks to really complain strongly about them. They also look better now (after patch 1) than they did at launch and much better than they do on youtube. And given the genre, I'd say Strategic Command and Unity of Command 2 have both beat for historical accuracy and beauty.

The campaign is indeed Nazi only and Europe only. It also suffers from the same flaw the original did in that every single piece of Nazi paper tech is included for them while Allied factions don't even get all the stuff they actually had and used widely. A larger annoyance for me is the way every faction is shoved into the Nazi tactical model whether or not it fits. But that's sort of a problem with OOB as well.

The trait system for the player is frankly irritating and I wish it wasn't in the game.

Hero balance is poor, and I much prefer the leaders of OOB -- who offer a mild stat bonus in an area -- to those in PzC2 who vary from worthless to game breakingly overpowered.

I like a lot of the tactical interplay and I think overall the game is a good one and worth playing.

What I _do_ know for sure is that neither game needs a pissing match between fans. This is a small ecosystem producing games in a genre that spent a long time dead, it'd be better if everyone got along and enjoyed having two options instead of the none we had for a very long time.

prestidigitation wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:29 pm
What I _do_ know for sure is that neither game needs a pissing match between fans. This is a small ecosystem producing games in a genre that spent a long time dead, it'd be better if everyone got along and enjoyed having two options instead of the none we had for a very long time.

Absolutely. I bought it because I was curious and loved the first game. And Panzer General 3D back then. I like the graphics and design so far and I dont think that you can compare a very large, well-developed game like OoB with literally almost double-digit campaign DLCS to a fresh release with its first patch. It took me some time to get used to OoB and the devs to smooth out the game over a few patches and DLCs.

What annoys me with PzC 2 is the too aggressive AI. At first, I saw an AI position, well dug in, secured with AT and arty and AA and was thinking how costly it will be to assault and take that position. But the AI likes to leave that strong position and attack my units head-on, making missions easier. By now, I know how to bait them and together with overrun, surrender and so on you can seize unassailable AI positions surprisingly well. Not surprisingly, I remember that in OoB one of the first major patches was aimed at AI improvement. So I guess the devs will take the same route here as well.

prestidigitation wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:29 pm I bought it, largely because I saw a developer post about how A) he's Russian and has creative control, so they're not going to do something as obscenely terrible as Soviet Corps again and B) that he wants to do way more (and way better) Allied content than PzC1 got. Given that the US Corps campaign in PzC1 is still the only three grand scale allied campaign around in PzC1, PzC2 or OOB, that says something.

I think the complaints about graphics in this thread are frankly silly. While they look a little weird, you'd have to be willfully ignoring how OOB looks to really complain strongly about them. They also look better now (after patch 1) than they did at launch and much better than they do on youtube. And given the genre, I'd say Strategic Command and Unity of Command 2 have both beat for historical accuracy and beauty.

The campaign is indeed Nazi only and Europe only. It also suffers from the same flaw the original did in that every single piece of Nazi paper tech is included for them while Allied factions don't even get all the stuff they actually had and used widely. A larger annoyance for me is the way every faction is shoved into the Nazi tactical model whether or not it fits. But that's sort of a problem with OOB as well.

The trait system for the player is frankly irritating and I wish it wasn't in the game.

Hero balance is poor, and I much prefer the leaders of OOB -- who offer a mild stat bonus in an area -- to those in PzC2 who vary from worthless to game breakingly overpowered.

I like a lot of the tactical interplay and I think overall the game is a good one and worth playing.

What I _do_ know for sure is that neither game needs a pissing match between fans. This is a small ecosystem producing games in a genre that spent a long time dead, it'd be better if everyone got along and enjoyed having two options instead of the none we had for a very long time.

This is a fantastic post that brings reality and clarifies things. I was thinking that I would probably like the game perhaps or in other words the graphics may not ruin it for me if I just bought the game because as you mentioned they are doing upgrades and what you see on youtube etc. is not exactly how bad one may think things appear they are different once a person sees things on their own screen and usually one can not notice things they get used to in the heat of battle. It does completely baffle me though that a demo is not available as it could instantly prove the graphic problem null and void for perhaps not all but many players. Plus a demo can entice one to want more and get excited about it. Of course I could do the Steam 2 hour trial thing but the last thing I want to do is play something and only have two hours to figure it out and then have to make a decision and keep up with may credit card statement make sure they do not charge me etc. With a demo - back to whining about a demo again - one could play replay and play the demo ..

The trait system is a huge concern it is a giant red flag the reality that game designers put something into a game that affects overwhelmingly so much of the game for better or for worse one must wonder what other bizarre things may be in the game. OOB is superb in this you get a few units if you assign them a commander that have advantages that depending on where they are etc. the advantages can be nothing special at times (if a plane is refueling if a tank is out of position etc.) so the game keeps its tactical feel of focusing on Terrain, Unit Placement, Supply, Entrenchment, and unit choice. Instead of focusing on one leader with traits to win the scenario.

We do need to be thankful that both games exist and understand we are not all clones and encourage people to enjoy each one and even both.

oh I meant to mention this Panzer Strategy This is a game it is a turn based strategy game it is WWII so I gotta check it out may be something different it was different the graphics totally ruined it - !!! Luckily I had not played it 2 hours wish they had a demo would have saved me a lot of hassle.
This the kind of junk your eyes have to look at and look beyond to plan a move - yeah I saw pics of this before I bought it but then I figured may not be to bad - but it was worse so with PC2 I figure screw it and what is so sad it may actually not be that bad but then if they had a demo one would know

gunny wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:55 pm We do need to be thankful that both games exist and understand we are not all clones and encourage people to enjoy each one and even both.

The quote of the thread so far.

Panzer Strategy is actually worse than it looks because the units incessantly repeat the same loud and very obnoxious quotes. I refunded it.

I like the Panzer Strategy briefing:

prestidigitation wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 pm Panzer Strategy is actually worse than it looks because the units incessantly repeat the same loud and very obnoxious quotes. I refunded it.

Good Job Soldier !!! At least we give things a chance

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:20 am I like the Panzer Strategy briefing:


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I think that is why they made the game just to have a really cool briefing.

That is the overall introduction, though, isn't it? The video that, once you have seen it, you tend to mouse click or escape key to dismiss and get to the game itself? On the other hand, one of the cool things about OOB, and perhaps PzC 2, is being able to goof around with the briefings even though the images are static. One can become downright poetic, or silly, with five small boxes of text.

The best, short but funny and professional introductions were in old Allied General.
I have many warm memories and feelings for this title, because it was my first WW2 turn based strategy game.

bru888 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:29 pm That is the overall introduction, though, isn't it? The video that, once you have seen it, you tend to mouse click or escape key to dismiss and get to the game itself? On the other hand, one of the cool things about OOB, and perhaps PzC 2, is being able to goof around with the briefings even though the images are static. One can become downright poetic, or silly, with five small boxes of text.

No, you have such cutscenes after every mission. They are hilarious - which probably is not the effect the devs are after. Ah, Halder always whining and being overly pessimistic and alien-Hitler ranting. Strategic Mind: The Pacific from the same company has also similar cutscenes (FDR looks like he is a zombie). Both games have some good concepts, but the execution is... lacking. The funniest thing is how they advertise: "mindblowing historical accuracy and attention to detail". Mindblowing for sure, but again not in the way they intended.

When I'll finally make my historical Mod for OoB, I'll announce him this way "mindblowing historical accuracy"

In Panzer Corps 2, the riders hold their guns correctly and manage to shoot with their guns:

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:40 am In Panzer Corps 2, the riders hold their guns correctly and manage to shoot with their guns:

Fully agree with you here. It's about time that this "shameful cavalry animation" chapter's being closed in OoB...