Slitherine

goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:54 pm this seems way too easy for the allies...not sure how you can increase the difficulty...thanks for laying this out

Thanks goose_2, this is correct and as McGuba had already anticipated…

I actually have to admit that I am a bit (but not totally) surprised as well. The AI seems (with all the respect) almost helpless without scripts. In addition, the historical force balance works in the AI’s favor when you play BE in the intended way, i.e. as the Axis…

However, here the AI can’t really handle the big map on a strategic level nor can it be really effective on a tactical/operational level (basically due to the overwhelming amount of available Allied forces). Furthermore, the number of Allied forces is even increasing as time progresses (so you become stronger and stronger as the Allies).

The only thing I can think of at the moment is less, weaker and/or less experienced Allied forces (for the human player) and more/stronger Axis forces (for the AI), i.e. an ahistoric force balance. However, this might not even be enough on a regional level (e.g. in North Africa or in case you give the Allies some transports so they could start an amphibious landing basically anywhere in Europe to open a second front)… or maybe BE Allied/Soviet Corps needs to be played on Manstein (instead of on General)...

So we will see what will happen but I guess the Allies will reach Berlin very soon… Anyways, I am now also very curious to “test”/play the upcoming enhanced multiplayer version of BE as well… however, there is also still the (fairly difficult) Kursk save as well…

Turn 14 – 3 January 1942
Weather: snow and frozen

Great Patriotic War:
There are no German forces north of Dvina River anymore.

Also around Minsk the Germans seem exhausted due to months of fighting as well as inadequate equipment, i.e. in light of very cold winter weather.
In the center, spearheading Soviet scouting forces stand at the Vistula River east of Krakow.

Further south, a light Soviet scouting tank crossed the Carpathian Mountains and reached the Tisza River. It is heading towards Budapest, the Hungarian capital.
Bucharest has fallen and the oilfield further north will be next very soon. In addition, first British planes arrived from North Africa.
Crete:
At the same time, the naval gunfire on Crete continues and Maleme airfield should become available soon.

Turn 15 – 18 January 1942
Weather: snow and frozen

Great Patriotic War:
The Northwestern Front is reaching out to Königsberg and is potentially encircling the remaining German forces west of Minsk. Further south, Brest is the next objective for the Soviet forces.
Unfortunately, fuel consumption is very high for mechanized/motorized units in winter. Therefore, the snowy weather is actually slowing down the Soviet advances more than the Axis resistance at this point in time.
Balkans:
A new partisan group has been formed in Croatia and is heading north towards Vienna.

When do you predict you will get Berlin to Capitulate?

goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm When do you predict you will get Berlin to Capitulate?

Thanks goose_2, this is a very interesting question. I was wondering about it at the beginning as well, that’s why I had posted the victory conditions as well. However, my guess is that the mod is not yet set to have any requirements to be fulfilled to trigger Berlin to capitulate/surrender early, i.e. before turn 99.

Nonetheless, I think I will discontinue this test AAR once my third question from the beginning has been answered, i.e. “how quickly the AI can be defeated as well as how soon Berlin and the critical Romanian oil field can be reached”.

To me, this means basically once the German Ostfront collapses as Germany had dedicated about 80 percent of its available forces to Operation Barbarossa in 1941, as well as once Berlin has been reached by Soviet forces (maybe just one unit, let's see). The Romanian oilfield has already been seized anyway.

Even if you look at it historically, after the Casablanca Conference early 1943 which stated that the Allies would only accept "unconditional surrender" (that’s the time when the battle of Stalingrad ended about one week later), Berlin did not surrender for another two years and three months…

Turn 16 – 2 February 1942
Weather: snow and frozen

Great Patriotic War:
Königsberg is in reach. However, the Soviet tanks are running out of fuel and nearby cavalry units require rest as well. In addition, medium-sized ATs have been placed in the city and on the adjacent airfield as well. The British warships are shelling the airport with naval gunfire.
Soviet forces around Minsk continue to push forward. Vilnius is still under German control though.
A single Soviet recon tank is close to Lodz in Poland and the area doesn’t seem defended at all. Can this be true and even more importantly, should a single light tank unit advance towards Berlin or wait for reinforcements to arrive?

Crete:
Maleme airfield has been liberated by Greek partisans. However, by now most British planes have already been transferred north.

PeteMitchell_2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:26 pm

goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm When do you predict you will get Berlin to Capitulate?

Thanks goose_2, this is a very interesting question. I was wondering about it at the beginning as well, that’s why I had posted the victory conditions as well. However, my guess is that the mod is not yet set to have any requirements to be fulfilled to trigger Berlin to capitulate/surrender early, i.e. before turn 99.

Nonetheless, I think I will discontinue this test AAR once my third question from the beginning has been answered, i.e. “how quickly the AI can be defeated as well as how soon Berlin and the critical Romanian oil field can be reached”.

To me, this means basically once the German Ostfront collapses as Germany had dedicated about 80 percent of its available forces to Operation Barbarossa in 1941, as well as once Berlin has been reached by Soviet forces (maybe just one unit, let's see). The Romanian oilfield has already been seized anyway.

Even if you look at it historically, after the Casablanca Conference early 1943 which stated that the Allies would only accept "unconditional surrender" (that’s the time when the battle of Stalingrad ended about one week later), Berlin did not surrender for another two years and three months…
Areas of Allied vs. German control.png

Maybe you should try it at Manstein difficulty...5 extra strength points for the Germs could be nasty

goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:25 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:26 pm

goose_2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 pm When do you predict you will get Berlin to Capitulate?

Maybe you should try it at Manstein difficulty...5 extra strength points for the Germs could be nasty

Yes, this is true and I should have thought about it earlier as well.

However, I will post a full map screenshot with fog of war off soon and I think it would be just a question of a few more months, latest by winter 42/43 the game is over for the Axis (i.e. when played by the AI and given the current state of the mod).

Nonetheless, playing the mod in the intended way (i.e. playing the Axis as the human player) on Manstein could be a real challenge... Uhu, GeneralWerner... has anyone tried this already?

Turn 17 – 17 February 1942
Weather: cloudy and frozen

Great Patriotic War:
German Army Group Center seems almost defeated… Soviet forces are facing three German artillery and one exhausted German infantry unit west of Minsk.
Also north of Lutsk, only a few exhausted German units seem remaining.
The way to Berlin is not completely open yet, a German infantry unit appeared east of Breslau...

However, Budapest will be in reach soon as well. At the same time, the Allied fighters are still struggling with the remaining Luftwaffe planes.

Turn 18 – 4 March 1942
Weather: clear and frozen

Great Patriotic War:
The German Ostfront collapsed! The attack on Königsberg will be intensified in a few days and Brest is also still under light German control. However, other than that not many German forces seem left in Poland…
Same situation further south, Hungary and the Balkans are basically open as well…
Western Europe:
All quiet in Western Europe…

Turn 19 – 19 March 1942
Weather: clear and dry

Great Patriotic War:
Winter is over and Warsaw has been seized. With dry ground, several Soviet tank forces are speeding through northern Poland now. Only the Oder River is between them and Berlin!
Budapest has fallen. However, some light AT defense are left in the area around it.
Is this a sign of a planned Axis counteroffensive targeting Bucharest and the Romanian oilfield?

Western Europe:
Allied air raids on German cities continue and air reconnaissance over Germany can only spot a few isolated Axis units…

Turn 20 – 3 April 1942
Weather: clear and dry

Great Patriotic War:
First Soviet tanks reached the southeast of Berlin!
However, Vienna is still garrisoned by German Gebirgsjäger.

Turn 21 – 18 April 1942
Weather: clear and dry

Great Patriotic War:
More of Berlin has been occupied!
Fighting south of Vienna. Furthermore, it seems the Axis are placing small AT guns at major cities (victory objectives)… it must be the last stand!

Turn 22 – 3 May 1942
Weather: clear and dry

Great Patriotic War:
Berlin is still not fully occupied!
However, Vienna could be seized now as well!
The Axis counteroffensive along the Danube River vaporized…

that lower right hand corner picture of the entire map shows it all
Massive Green overwhelming force which could not be overcome even if the German's were given that extra 5 strength...too overwhelming for anyone other than an extremely poor human player to overcome.

I think even if you were to watch the ai play for both sides even if the axis had Manstein strength the ai of the allies would overwhelm the Germans

goose_2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:12 pm that lower right hand corner picture of the entire map shows it all
Massive Green overwhelming force which could not be overcome even if the German's were given that extra 5 strength...too overwhelming for anyone other than an extremely poor human player to overcome.

I think even if you were to watch the ai play for both sides even if the axis had Manstein strength the ai of the allies would overwhelm the Germans

Yeah, probably very true! After this test, I am very curious how a real Allied/Soviet Corps version of Battlefield Europe could actually be created…