Slitherine

Dave congratulations on finally playing a FoG game.
It is too bad that your first post here was to snipe at a regular poster's merit but at least your not just lurking.

Luddite your were probably able to smell cheese because Dave is a huge 40k aficionado but he is a skilled gamer and FoG should redeem him, in time.

Actually Im not a 40K fan and dont play the game(I did for a few months several years back)I was a big DBM fan.I wasnt sniping either-I just dont think he is correct.This is a FOG forum though so lets keep it to that.believe it or not some people think this is a bad rules set.I really like the rules and the book is extremely well written and clear.BTW I think heavy artillery should not pivot.

Good points and Heavy Artillery shouldn't pivot just because someone wants it to.

i am looking at a diagram of a 30 mina (about 13kg)stone throwing heavy artillery piece in "armies of the macedonian and punic wars". this is about the mid-size heavy stone thrower. it is 5 meters tall, 3 meters wide, and about 11 meters long. it is mounted on a tripod stand with no wheels and a supporting trail. definitely not something that could be pivoted easily if at all.

Dakadave wrote:This is a FOG forum though so lets keep it to that.believe it or not some people think this is a bad rules set.I really like the rules and the book is extremely well written and clear.

I understand there's no accounting for likes and dislikes, that the rules don't have loads of period-specific flavored chrome, and a few people might regard as morally reprehensible any rules that allow tournament or ahistorical games, but I am really quite curious to know what criteria of evaluation are people using to actually rate it "BAD" as a rules set?

Best regards,

Mike

Some have called these too complicated to be succesful with the mass of ancient gamers...I dont see it but that is what was said.

This thread should return to Heavy Artillery not pivoting.

Whats the point in returning to heavy arty pivoting when we know it can't in the rules, and people seem to be having fun putting rule sets and each other down.

Dakadave wrote: I wasnt sniping either-I just dont think he is correct.

And there the beginnings of good forum debates happen.

What fun would it be if we all agreed all the time

KingHassan wrote: This thread should return to Heavy Artillery not pivoting.

philqw78 wrote: Whats the point in returning to heavy arty pivoting when we know it can't in the rules, and people seem to be having fun putting rule sets and each other down.

Aye, i've never really understood this 'stick to the question at all costs' idea for forums. I'm not advocating random ramblings, but these are forum discussions, and sometimes they wander onto other points just like in 'real life'. What's wrong with that?

The original post question has been answered fully and repeatedly, so other issued are raised and discussed. No worries, in my opinion.

As for FoG being 'bad', well there are chaps at our club who love it, others who hate it and pine for *cough*DBM*cough*, and others who are indifferent. Just like any other ruleset. Very few are actually bad, just preferred/not preferred...

Mikek wrote: but I am really quite curious to know what criteria of evaluation are people using to actually rate it "BAD" as a rules set?

For me, the measure of a 'good' or 'bad' ruleset rests in two aspects;

1. Does it play well and give a good enjoyable game without making my head melt trying to sort out the rules at the table?

2. If i run a historical scenario within the period the rules intend to cover do the rules allow me to use 'historical tactics' that produce 'historical results'?

Answer 'yes' to both - thats a great game (Field of Glory, Rapid Fire (latests ed.), Legends of the Old West, Crusader, etc.).
Answer yes to one - well, that's ok. (DBx, Flames of War, Warmaster Ancients, etc.)
Answer yes to neither - the book is destined for the 'gathering dust' shelf. (Warrior, Mr Lincoln's War, etc.)

Some have called these too complicated to be succesful with the mass of ancient gamers...

I had played less than 20 games when I arrived at the Challenge and came top 10. Perhaps the rules are too easy.

pg 41, under Simple and Complex Moves: "Heavy artillery cannot move at all."

Since turning, pivoting, and wheeling are all moves, this is pretty clear evidence that the rules as written preclude Heavy artillery from pivoting, I think.