Slitherine

OK JimmyC TSPC37730 and captainjack. Thank you Thank You Thank you for the very thorough responses.
I appreciate the "strategic advice" while not spoiling the "blind" nature I am playing this out.
You have all given me a lot to chew on and based on that I am doing the following.

I will get time to start playing this scenario on Thursday evening and will certainly button it up over the weekend. I may send a play by play on Friday or may wait to give feedback for Monday.

Here are my thoughts based on what I have read.
Normally I try to take over all cities on the map, but from what I remember on the last time I looked at the map during the deployment phase I will concentrate only on the main objectives as the supplementary objectives are various and spread out and I have no idea what is waiting for me over there. Instead I will make sure I can take the main objectives first and if I have time then I will save taking the last city until I have taken as much of the other cities as possible. (For experience and extra prestige.)

I will not buy extra Fallschimjager, but instead use the three I have to drop in while it is raining making sure not to take them to far off from the main group and hopefully dropping them somewhat near an airfield to pull away if needed.

I will definitely bring both of my Pioneer units as well as any tracked units I have and foot soldiers to back them up. Only tracked artillery. I will not bring either of my 88's but I will bring both of my anti tank guns. I will bring all of my tanks, which if I remember right is 7 total including the 2 captured Soviet tanks. (I have trouble keeping tanks, too aggressive.)
I will not bring any recon since it will mostly be useless, but instead bring both Rudels for the days when it is not rainy, one for recon, the other for destruction. I will make sure and bring probably 3 or at the very least 2 fighters.
After that I will evaluate what else I still have room for.
I may set this up tonight based on what I have laid out here and see what else I have room for because maybe I should buy some additional items with additional tanks or additional Pioneer units. I will see.

My last remaining question I can think of is this.
What is the soft cap that keeps getting thrown around? What does that mean?
I tried searching a little bit and see it getting brought up several times in various forums, but it never seems to get defined.

Thank's again my seasoned experienced generals.
Let me know if you ever want to challenge me in Multiplayer as it is my favorite aspect of this game.

Hello all interested observers.
10 days in and my Vyazma offensive is going horribly. I have 10 rounds left to turn that around.

My army going in:
14 infantry including 3 paratroop units and 2 Pioneer units. (I purchased a bridging unit, but I will get to that later.)
7 artillery
2 antitanks
8 tanks including 1 Flame Panzer
2 Rudel Bombers
2 Fighters

Rain the first 2 turns.
I tried to be creative and used my newly purchsed Bridge Enginner to allow 2 tanks to flank in the South.
Problem.
This was unnecessary as there was notjhing gaurding in the South.
Despite my greatest plans I can't help but move some units North and South to take non-objective cities, as such, I have wasted precious time taking unnecessary secondary objectives.
Some of their big dob KV1b tanks really put the hurt on some of my units.
As such I have lost my green anti tank gun, my nice Flame Panzer, and my best Paratrroper who had a nice hero.
As such I have brought in 2 more fighters and 1 more bomber.

At the start of turn 11 we are looking at a cloudy day.
I have some units dug around Vyazma, I have about 1000 prestige.
I am struggling to get momentum, but I have 10 more rounds to turn this around.
My thinking is to concentrate on taking Vyazma and then use all my forces to circle around and take Mozhaysk. I do not see anyway to take Moscow. As such a Decisive Victory will elude me, however I think if I get a minor Victory or even a loss my next scenario will be the last scenario of 1941, the Demyansk Pocket.

Here is what I am thinking. Ever since I finished the 1939 campaign I wanted to do it over to start off better and use more well thought out strategy. It was my first time playing the game having just purchased it and being a big fan of Panzer General. I decided not to because you can only play through blind once. However as 1941 is going to give way to 1942 I see that I will struggle more and more just to survive. Based on that would you want me to start again in 1939 to build a stronger army so I can actually succeed at this game or play until I just lose and then start over? That is what I am debating. I can only play blind once, but no one likes getting their you know what handed to them.

I also still am trying to understand what the soft cap means?
Thanks again for the interest and advice.

Oh yeah and ps: No Multiple hero unit yet.

Since it costs nothing, do both.

The 1939 scenarios are very short, I can usually knock one off in about 20 minutes. The 2nd time around you should know what to expect, and can cut your losses and save more prestige.

1940 is when things start to get more complicated.

Alternatively, you could always try a 1940 or 1941 re-start.

That was a great suggestion and that is what I actually did over the weekend. I have been meaning to type this up but have not found the time until today.

So here is the result from punching it out over the weekend.
I got a Decisive Victory. I took Moscow.
I couldn't believe it, but the Russians didn't have much left in reserve so I was able to move forward and take all the outlying cities as well. Including Kaluga which scored me a much needed KV1a.
All the heavy fighting over the course of the entire battle cost me 2 infantry units, 1 anti tank unit, my Flame Panzer, and 1 artillery.
I have of course chosen to fight in the Streets of Moscow. I have given all my units Elite Replacements and have most at 11 strength and have 3139 leftover in prestige in the deployment phase.
I have 31 units to deploy plus my 4 se infantry units.
Since the next battle is going to be almost entirely in the close terrain of the Streets of Moscow here is my thinking.
I will bring all 12 of my infantry units and all 10 of my artillery. No hard target units as they would prove to be useless in the city.
I will bring my Super Bomber Rudel and my 2 strategic Bombers to soften up targets and probably 3 fighters.
That leaves 7 units left to get your advice on.
I am thinking it would be best to buy inexperienced Pioneer units and 2 or 3 artillery to increase my punch.
Is it wise to purchase any Flame Panzers in the close terrain of the city fighting or would they be just as useless as my regular tanks are?
I do not have much experience with those tanks so your advice would be beneficial.
Is it wise to not bring any tanks into this battle or would you bring at least 2 experienced tanks to protect and defend against any outside the city attacks?
Would you bring in more bombers?
I was thinking light on the airforce since I am predicting there will be a considerable amount of snow at this point in the war.
Again I appreciate all your thoughts and helpful advice my experienced generals as I have found it to be invaluable.
I am stunned that I was able to pull a decisive victory out of the Vyazma battle and hopeful that I can keep it going into the next one with your great pointers. (This is such a killer game.)
Oh yeah and no Multiple Hero unit yet. I am getting close I can feel it and am hopeful that this next battle will be my golden moment.

PS: I am going to do another log about my 2nd time through on the AAR forum if you are interested in following that stream and would like to give advice for me there as well.

It is important to have tanks in this one, as there are a lot of streets in between the buildings that don’t count as close terrain. And they have some tough tanks that are difficult to lure into the close terrain. Oftentimes they will also leave their infantry units in this open terrain, which is perfect for tanks.

I remember this scenario well as the Russians have a lot of sub-machine gun infantry that really chew through your own infantry units. So your infantry are no longer safe even in close terrain. You have to try and make sure your infantry are backed up by artillery wherever possible, or else you will have many losses.

For your remaining 7 spots, I would probably fill it mostly with tanks. Bring mostly the tanks that have high close defense (Panzer IIIN and Flampanzer spring to mind). These guys will mostly be used for killing infanty that is in the open and also suppressed infantry in cover. These tanks, when backed up by artillery, should also be fine sitting in cover themselves. I would also bring a couple of tank killer tanks (the ones with the highest hard attack) for taking out the Russian armour.

This is a hard scenario and I can’t stress enough how dangerous those sub-machine gun infantry are. You have been warned!

JimmyC I am glad you gave me that advice because the tanks I ended up taking were invaluable.

Units brought were the following
12 infantry
11 artillery
2 tac bombers
2 fighters
1 strategic bomber
1 aa
1 anti tank
2 bought Flam Panzers
3 tanks

First 2 days were spent cutting through the center, but my flanks were struggling. 3rd day snow
5th day sunny One of my artillery gets spotting +1. (This is the 2nd time this has happened. What a useless hero unit.)
After the first week things are going splendidly. It is a hard slog digging through all of those infantry, but I am systematically doing it and have even taken over the Kremlin, in the 1st week!!!
One conscript on my South eastern flank is left untouched, but I am not bothering with, and really hope I do not live to regret that. I have also taken over the Southeastern district and am moving in on the Eastern District and the Eastern Airfield. The Northwestern District has proven rather difficult, but I am confident that I will take it soon. After that concentrating everything on remaining 2 objectives The Northern and Northeastern Districts. So far no losses, but have come close a couple of times. 2500 prestige
Turn 8 lost a FlamPanzer. Couldn't replace because I am assuming hero fighter that came in 2nd turn prevents you from exceeding slots.
Turn 10 lost my captured T-34. VERY MAD HERE!!!
Turn 11 is sunny and I was considering resting and refitting, but chose to slog on and it paid off bigtime. I have destroyed many big time units for the Soviets and am continuing to press forward.
Break is over and I will detail more of my action tomorrow.

PS: I am still waiting for my multiple hero unit. I have to be getting close as some of my Pioneer units are cutting through the enemy like a hot knife through butter.
Thanks again for the interest in this fascinating and nail biting blind playthrough.

I am taking a moment as staying late to detail the latest update of my exciting blind play through on this extraordinary game.
I will go through the halfway point action that took place over the weekend. I have 9 turns remaining which I will finish this weekend.

Turn 13 Sunny Day
I continue to press the attack. The enemies counterattacks are getting pathetic. They have moved their tanks into incredibly vulnerable spots within the cities themselves. They are weakened and continue to fall like dominoes. My army is at or near full strength.
2700 prestige and Uber Rudel earns iron cross finally.
Turn 13 Gerbisjager spots infamous KV% on the Northern part of the Northeastern District. Impressive stats.
Turn 14 Sunny again!
Unfortunately I put my tank in a vulnerable spot which caused his stats to be reduced to 4. I am backing him away for the remainder of the battle and saving him for the next fight when I can give him elite replacements.
Now at 3000 prestige and own the Northwestern District and pressing on the Northeastern District, as well as the Northern Rail Depot and most Northeastern airport. At this rate I will take over all objectives including secondary ones.
Counterstroke on Turn 14 was stronger than expected. New tanks have come barreling out of the Northwest causing more damage then I like to my Panzer 4f. Cloudy and my bombers need ammo.
Turn 15 Northeastern district is mine. KV5 is wiped out.
More guys coming from the Northwest, but Turn 16 is sunny and I am set to wail on them hard.
I am backing off my Panzer 4f for the remainder of the battle like my antitank as it to is down to 4.

I am excited to be doing so well and unless the Soviets come up with some massive guys and tanks and just keep pressing at overwhelming force and speed I will finish this up with a decisive victory this weekend, and hopefully my first multi hero unit.

Ok to start off summary.
No Multiple hero on 1 unit, but I did get a Decisive Victory with all objectives acquired, even Secondary ones. I will finish this post with where I am at and my thoughts before going in to Demyansk pocket.

But first my day by day play.
Turn 16 starts sunny and with a captured KV1B because I captured the top most Eastern airfield.
After trapping and suppressing and force surrendering another enemy tank my experienced captured KV1B received an excellent +2 Defense hero.
Acquired Northern rail depot. I only have primary objective on the Northern District, and the secondary objectives of Khimki, Krasnogorsk, and Northwestern airfield.
Turn 17 snow
Their counterattack was weak.
Turn 18 cloudy and nothing left to stop me...so going West for Secondary objectives.
By turn 22 I have taken it all over and even received a captured T-34/40 to replace the one I lost earlier in the game for the last airfield taken over.

Aftermath going into Demyansk Pocket and after replacing all my losses and upgrading my PZ3j to a PZ3J-l and my anti tank to a Marder 2a I have about 3700 in prestige.

I have looked at the next map and seeing that it is a defensive scenario I know I want to bring some of my nice fighters to protect the transports. I want to bring some of my nice artillery pieces to protect my troops, but I am thinking I want to bring some of my greener troops and buy some fresh troops to get experience in and leave my seasoned troops only as replacements for any losses I receive.
I like to go on the attack eventually on these defensive scenarios, but something tells me I will need to stay grounded in my entrenchments. I will bring only a few tanks and tank killer units to pick off any hard targets they send my way. I will probably by enough units to leave me 2000 prestige, and I know I will regret it when I get to the 42 and 43 campaign, but this is what I face doing a blind playthrough. I feel at this point my only option is to put my faith in some of my experienced units to help me when things get rough out there.
Let me know what you think, I always appreciate the input and the interest in this subject.

It has been a while since I have posted on this thread.
My wife and I had the birth of our 8th child get in the way.
Well I finally took some time last night to get started.
I have detailed my first 5 days.
I started with 32 units in reserve
I deployed 31 + 4 SE units and have 2486 prestige
10 green Pioneer and Grenadier units that I purchased to earn some experience.
4 veteran SE infantry units
11 veteran artillery
1 8.8 AA unit
3 fighters
2 fighter tac bombers

AI plays the 1st turn and they come on full boar for no effect.
My 1st round Sunny I eliminated some tanks but am now vulnerable for a counter attack.
AI's 2nd round
lost green Pioneer unit.
lost nice tank unit.
lost auxiliary infantry unit

Turn 2 Sunny
I wiped out the attack on the NW and SW side.
I replaced my 2 lost units with my newly updated antitank unit and my other captured KV1B.

Turn 3 AI counterattack no losses
Turn 3 Sunny My 3rd SE infantry gets his first hero +1 defense
I am pushing back everywhere except in SE only holding my ground there.

AI turn 4 weak counter attack. They are only trying in the South.
Turn 4 Sunny
Finally got Knights Cross on my 2nd SE infantry Unit (They have 806kills / 186 losses) Where is my 2nd hero?

Turn 5 AI Counter attack continues to be weak.
Turn 5 Cloudy
Got another spotting hero on one of my artillery units. Seriously that is 3 artillery units with the lame spotting hero.

Turn 6 AI Counter attack is getting increasingly pathetic.
Turn 6 cloudy and yet to be played.

I will hopefully get more time to play and document on this great game. Still hoping for the multiple hero unit.

Cloudy Turn 6
My anti tank killer unit finally got a hero. +1 attack

Turn 7 AI counter attack is stronger and lost captured T34
Turn 7 Sunny
Brought in my other captured KV-1B with a +2 Defense Hero to replace lost T-34
Took Uglovka

Turn 8 AI pushing back but no losses
Turn 8
Because I took over Uglovka received a captured T-34/41 to replace the one I lost.
Took Ostashkov
Bought 4 elite replacements for 8th SE Infantry and 3 for anti tank killer so I do not lose the valuable experience.

Turn 9 AI counter attack is still trying to push back with no success
Turn 9 cloudy
Took Pero and moving around Selizhanovo.
Getting pushed back to Valdaj but still pressuring Vypolzovo.
Took Simsk

Turn 10 AI counter attack the push back in the South is hurting me while the push back in the North is pathetic.
Turn 10 Cloudy not able to push back very well and they are building strength.

Turn 11 AI counter attack force surrendered one of my auxiliary AA units.
Turn 11 Cloudy
I think I need to pull back???

I hope some of you are enjoying this day to day battle log.

Ok to continue the battle.
Turn 11 Cloudy
Bought 4 SE Infantry Elite Replacements to save experience.
Backed away from Selzharovo.
My Pz 4F with +1 Def is vulnerable at just 5 units left and unable to replace or fully retreat.
I have an enemy Conscript coming into my lines.
I am getting worried.

Turn 12 AI Counterattack lost PZ4f like I thought I might..
Turn 12 Cloudy
I have a couple of my units vulnerable because I was getting to aggressive on my Northern front.
My best SE Unit. Yikes!!!

Turn 13 AI Counterattack lost my green pioneer unit but not my Exp SE unit
Held my ground
Turn 13 snow
I replaced my lost unit with one of my veteran Pioneer unit with a +1 Initiative hero

Turn 14 AI Counterattack was tough but no losses and holding ground
Turn 14 Sunny time for destruction

Turn 15 AI counterattack got pushed back hard really coming at me in the North now. (I thought I was going to dominate the North. Where do they keep getting these units?)
Turn 15 Cloudy What to do???

Turn 16 AI Counterattack is getting intense and lost another green Pioneer unit
Turn 16 Sunny Brought in Veteran PZ3 J/l

Turn 17 AI is continuing to push back in the North and the South, but the East is mine. I only have one more airfield to take. Peno and Ostash both back in Soviet hands.
Turn 17 Sunny Trying to push back and retain my ground, struggling.

5 turns left to finish. Will write up next time.

Here is the finish of Demyansk Pocket

Turn 18 AI They are pushing hard from the South up North. As such they have destroyed 1 auxiliary aa unit.
Turn 18 Sunny
East side is mine, now all that is left is to push back in the North and South. Can I do it?
Firovo is almost mine.

Turn 19 AI counterattack is just pathetic as attacks were repulsed.
Turn 19 Sunny pushing back everywhere. Soviets appear to have nothing left.
Firovo is mine.

Turn 20 AI Counter attack. Spoke too soon. Computer just bought 3 KV 1-C's at Ostashkov.
I will never be able to kill those off.
Turn 20 Sunny
Switching to defense. and just trying to survive.
I am bringing my Southern most units around sneaky Pete style to come and take Silizharovo.

Turn 21 AI Counterattack is giving it all it has but able to repulse and hold off. They snuck in a Conscript onto 1 of my airfields.
Turn 21 Cloudy
Took Silizharovo.

Turn 22 AI last ditch effort able to repulse with no additional losses. Some units came closer then I would have liked, but able to hold all places except Ostashkov.
Turn 22 Sunny
I was able to destroy Conscript unit and retake airfield.
I finished scenario having taken and held for at least a turn all places except the SEastern most airfield.

Marginal Victory?????
What?
Is it because I lost one of the airfields for a round or is it because I didn't deposit 4 Supply Units to the various airfields, because I was pretty sure I did the latter???
Do I have to keep the Buckenbridge units on the airfield?
I don't know.
Sometimes this game can be so confusing.
If you know please tell me, because I do not want to fail on my second play through.
Thanks!

Starting Grand Campaign 42 Vitebsk with 6000 prestige after buying replacements and upgrades.
I am nervous because it looks like another defensive scenario and I love trying to bring the attack to the enemy.

I am thinking I will bring a mixture of Seasoned units and green units purchased for previous scenario.
I will do some thinking on it and give my final thoughts on my initial composition next time.

Seriously if you know the answer for why I did not get Decisive Victory on the Demyansk Pocket, please let me know. I hate to fail.

You can get some pretty interesting and specific combinations..

• In Afrika Korps I had an 88 with +2 movement and +1 spotting; it made for a really nice striking range against aircraft, and decent against vehicles. What was really nice was that the movement ignored terrain costs for hills and forests.
• A couple Me 109s with +5 attack really tore things up almost as good as my tactical bombers; the absolute best one I had was +6 attack and +1 initiative, it was a real monster. Lost it on D-Day though.
• I also had SE-Grenadiers with +1 movement and +5 attack, they were animals and the plus movement was surprisingly useful sometimes.

goose_2 wrote:
Do I have to keep the Buckenbridge units on the airfield?

Seriously if you know the answer for why I did not get Decisive Victory on the Demyansk Pocket, please let me know. I hate to fail.

Yeah I replayed this one not too long ago - I think you have to keep the bridge (supply) units on the airfields. The game probably continued through the turn limit because they weren't. If you get four of them through & on the airfields, the scenario can & will end early. If the units weren't on the airfields, you should have got the MV by holding on to three airfields.

Good luck with your next round. Your prestige is still kind of low, but, it seems to be headed in the right direction.

DerLeiter wrote:I also had SE-Grenadiers with +1 movement and +5 attack, they were animals and the plus movement was surprisingly useful sometimes.

If you're short of prestige, move hero infantry can manage without transport. In the long run this can save you heaps as the transport increases the cost of overstrength and any reinforcements (apart from the free green reinforcements between scenarios). You also can air transport them between airfields (where you have air superiority), which you can't with a truck or halftrack. I usually convert them to Grenadiers so they can keep up with the gebirgsjagers and plain infantry, but 3- and 4-move pioneers can be handy too. Also, as your pioneers are cheaper on foot than in a truck, the AI might just pick other targets.

TSPC37730 wrote:

goose_2 wrote:
Do I have to keep the Buckenbridge units on the airfield?

Seriously if you know the answer for why I did not get Decisive Victory on the Demyansk Pocket, please let me know. I hate to fail.

Yeah I replayed this one not too long ago - I think you have to keep the bridge (supply) units on the airfields. The game probably continued through the turn limit because they weren't. If you get four of them through & on the airfields, the scenario can & will end early. If the units weren't on the airfields, you should have got the MV by holding on to three airfields.

Good luck with your next round. Your prestige is still kind of low, but, it seems to be headed in the right direction.

I had this happen to me on the first playthrough and on finding out why, i replayed it. I would suggest you to do the same Goose, although its up to you.

Blessed be the 88AA/AT unit with extra movement hero.

Thanks to everyone who has responded and helped me with why I got a marginal victory on the Demyansk Pocket.

I would love to get some of these great Multiple Heroes that have been brought up.
A movement hero on your 8.8 would be super sweet.
Unfortunately my blind play through is ruined because my computer pooped on me and all my saved games were lost.
Thankfully I still have my multiplayer games, but as I play through this next time it will be impossible for me to recreate the Army I was starting with in 1942, nor would I want to as I have learned so much since I have started.

It seems like I will never get one of these multi hero units.

I have one more question about multiple hero units.

Can you get a multiple hero on one of the hero units that the game gives you?
For example:
Let's say you have Super Rudel with over 1000 kills under his belt. Could you get another hero on the Super Rudel unit or any of the other Super hero units that game gives you?

If anyone knows the answer to that please share because it will help me with strategy on my next play through.
Thanks for all the interest in this thread.

I will probably be putting a day by day play through on the AAR section on this great Forum.

goose_2 wrote:I have one more question about multiple hero units.

Can you get a multiple hero on one of the hero units that the game gives you?
For example:
Let's say you have Super Rudel with over 1000 kills under his belt. Could you get another hero on the Super Rudel unit or any of the other Super hero units that game gives you?

Yes! Absolutely. When you look at your unit info screen, there are three "windows" there. For example, Rudel's will be picture in the left one, but there are another two to fill... The slots are there. (As an aside, it's almost a rounding error to stack say, a +1 attack hero on top of Rudel) In my opinion, it's a little harder to get a second or third hero on a unit that arrives with a hero already, and here's why. The hero units are scripted arrivals. Remember that new hero creation is a function of kills, and when your scripted hero unit arrives in '40 or '41, he may start out with some experience, but, he also starts out with zero kills. Meanwhile, your Pz III or Grenadier unit that you've been upgrading since '39 has had lots of target practice & will be much further along the way in terms of kills & therefore much further along the way to picking the second hero.

Another point about your campaign play that I've wondered about. I think I have an answer to part of your problem with getting second hero units. Do you have the "reform units" option on? If a unit is wiped out during a scenario, you can reform it at the start of the next scenario if you have the option on. Admittedly, your reformed unit starts out with zero prestige. The upside is that you get your hero(es) back - and, more importantly in your case - you get the kills back. So, even if your reformed unit has no hero at all, it's better off with, say, 180 kills under its belt, than an entirely new unit with zero kills. Some may not like using the reform units option, but, I do. You don't have to use it if you feel it's cheating.

Good luck in your next round. If you use the lessons you've learned you'll have a much better results.

I am so excited to finally get a chance to reopen this old forum topic of mine.

I have finally, finally, finally received my first multiple hero.

It happened in Zhitomir on my grand campaign and I got so excited when I received it I literally jumped out of my seat.
Ok I know that is dorky, but I do not care.

It was on my first SE unit received on the 2nd in the new Grand Campaign I am doing since my first got derailed during a computer dump that made me so mad.
That can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=145&t=65111

It is a regular SE inf that I have not upgraded just kept working with him to keep him alive and also am working with him to get the 100 infantry kills achievement on Steam.

Here are all his stats at time of 2nd hero being issued:
875 kills/80 losses
Issued in Danzig Corridor
Awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class in Kampinoska Forest for getting 100 kills
Awarded 1st Hero in Modlin +1 attack
Hoisted Banner over Downtown Warsaw
Hoisted Banner over The Hague
Awarded Iron Cross 1st Class in Sedan for getting 400 kills
Hoisted Banner over Arras
Hoisted Banner over Belgrade
Awarded Knight's Cross in Crete for 800 kills
Zhitomer awarded 2nd hero +3 attack
52 inf kills
12 tank kills
1 recon kill
14 anti tank kills
4 artillery kills
8 anti aircraft kills
3 fort kills
even have 1 Destroyer kill

Daddy is very happy and looking forward to finally getting that elusive 3rd hero on 1 unit
Hopefully in 1942

I know a +4 attack hero might not seem that great of a multiple hero, but considering the time and investment you have to put into a unit to garner this result I am extremely pleased.