Slitherine

zoltan wrote:

Robert241167 wrote:Oh no, are we still here?

My next two-penneth.

The knights in B have to intercept by moving to a point inside the charge path between the cavalry and light foot.

Therefore a gnats todger will not be enough.

Rob

Yeah that just dawned on me. So by definition an intercept charge must reach a position (before charge and evade moves are made) where the interceptor is positioned (even by a gnat's todger) between the charger and original charge target.

Not entirely so, It must reach a point where the charger will contact the interceptor before it reaches the start position of the target. If the knights could sidle up alongside and just beyond the front edge of the LF the charger would hit them first.

Hi gozerius

I think that is what both zoltan and myself have finally agreed on.

Rob

dave_r wrote:That particular scenario is a bit more tricky. in that scenario, if the Knights intercepted, the Cavalry who are charging would step forward - and therefore be in the charge path. I would deem that a genuine interception.

Did anyone sort this bit of Daveism out. Its utter Claptrap. In this situation the knights have not crossed the charge path but created an extended one.

I think that if the Knights finish level with the LF they have still crossed the charge path so could intercept.

gozerius wrote:Not entirely so, It must reach a point where the charger will contact the interceptor before it reaches the start position of the target. If the knights could sidle up alongside and just beyond the front edge of the LF the charger would hit them first.

That is how I read the rule. However, I can see how others can read it differently. I think the difficulty is that there is no definition of "charge path". In v1, you could argue that the LF might attempt to take the charge hence it's logical that the charge path stops at the front edge of the LF, perhaps.

In V2 though, the LF must evade, so there's certainly an argument that the charge path can't stop at the front edge of the LF.

All in all, it's the sort of thing that the FAQ should cover, but it seems that that is not being maintained.

kevinj wrote:I think that if the Knights finish level with the LF they have still crossed the charge path so could intercept.

Surely level is reached not crossed

philqw78 wrote:

kevinj wrote:I think that if the Knights finish level with the LF they have still crossed the charge path so could intercept.

Surely level is reached not crossed

Does the charge path include the stepping forwards?

It does if the BG stepped into was an original target like this, A charges B and steps into C (<= 2 mu away)

AAAAAAA

BBB

______CCCC

___DD

In that case an intercept (d) could go into the gap between B and C like so

AAAAAAA

BBB
___DD
______CCC

You, Dave, were on about intercepting into a place where you would be stepped forwards into, which you know is arse since it creates charge path but does not go into it

Surely level is reached not crossed

Level would put them into a place where the original charge would contact them without any other BG moving out of the way or creating a new charge path with stepping forward (which I agree with you, is arse).

Needing only to go level in an intercept would make HA knights and Heavy chariots much more useful as they could get to in intercept charge position where they would not need to charge troops advancing upon their friends, other shock mounted and shock foot have charge distances longer than their intercept zone.

grahambriggs wrote:

gozerius wrote:Not entirely so, It must reach a point where the charger will contact the interceptor before it reaches the start position of the target. If the knights could sidle up alongside and just beyond the front edge of the LF the charger would hit them first.

That is how I read the rule. However, I can see how others can read it differently. I think the difficulty is that there is no definition of "charge path". In v1, you could argue that the LF might attempt to take the charge hence it's logical that the charge path stops at the front edge of the LF, perhaps.

In V2 though, the LF must evade, so there's certainly an argument that the charge path can't stop at the front edge of the LF.

All in all, it's the sort of thing that the FAQ should cover, but it seems that that is not being maintained.

And that's precisely the nub of the issue Graham. Is a charge path:
1. The area between the charger's starting position and the target's starting position, or
2. The path the chargers takw completing their charge move (and taking into account rhe Light For's obligation to evade under v2).

From memory this scenario came up in our first v2 comp.

As far as I can tell there is no requirement for the intercept to come between the charger and the original target. It merely has to be in the "path of the charging battle group" (page 67).
If the charge path of a battlegroup is the full extent of its move in the direction it is charging then it is possible to intercept by moving up behind a target which will then evade. the movement forward puts you in its path. I can find nothing that says the charge path ends at the point where the original target was at the point the charge was declared, and several that point to the charge path carrying further.

I am personally opposed to this interpretation as it makes skirmisher screens ineffective against a player who knows how to exploit it, in a way which seems unhistorical. But at a tournament we are not simulating history we are playing a game of skill and cunning.

Andre

zoltan wrote:

grahambriggs wrote:

gozerius wrote:Not entirely so, It must reach a point where the charger will contact the interceptor before it reaches the start position of the target. If the knights could sidle up alongside and just beyond the front edge of the LF the charger would hit them first.

That is how I read the rule. However, I can see how others can read it differently. I think the difficulty is that there is no definition of "charge path". In v1, you could argue that the LF might attempt to take the charge hence it's logical that the charge path stops at the front edge of the LF, perhaps.

In V2 though, the LF must evade, so there's certainly an argument that the charge path can't stop at the front edge of the LF.

All in all, it's the sort of thing that the FAQ should cover, but it seems that that is not being maintained.

And that's precisely the nub of the issue Graham. Is a charge path:
1. The area between the charger's starting position and the target's starting position, or
2. The path the chargers takw completing their charge move (and taking into account rhe Light For's obligation to evade under v2).

From memory this scenario came up in our first v2 comp.

If you think the charge path extends beyond the LF's initial position, this introduces far too much complexity. In a situation where the evader has a choice of evade directions and the charger also has the option to wheel to follow the evader, it seems to me that the extended charge path is pretty much undefined as far as intercepting goes. I'm sure the intention for V2 is the same as it was for V1 where the intercept had to occur in the charge path to the target's initial position.

Chris

On a plain reading of the RAW I think the charge path is the area a charging BG will cover when making its charge move. In a scenario where the charger hits one enemy bg and then steps forward into a second enemy bg (as it is forced to do), I think the charge path includes the area covered by the step forward.

Thus, as long as an interceptor can place itself somewhere along the expected path of the charge they are entitled to intercept. Of course the path charge must be known at the the time of intercept election. In the case of LF which must evade from a mounted charge the charge path is known.

I disagree with the idea that for a charge on LF the charge path is known
In the case of a charge on LF who must evade (in v2)
the distance the chargers will charge is variable. Both from being determined by a variable roll and from potentially being limited by catching the LF whose evade move is also subject to a variable.
the direction of the charge may/ or may not at the choice of the charger be changed if the evaders move out of the path of the charge (this will often depend on the direction they choose to evade in and the variable roll)

IMO The only practical way to play intercept is that the path is that declared at the start of the charge to the front of the LF (indeed once the LF evade and the chargers roll a variable they might not get to this point)

Paul

Except that page 56 says "any battlegroup in the path of a charge counts as being charged", if the path stops at the point of first contact the word "any" wouldn't be there it would say "only the first battlegroup that is contacted counts as being charged" or something very similar.

Therefore it seems logical that the path of a charge is in the direction declared and continues for the full distance of the chargers normal move. Variable die is only rolled if all possible targets evade, an interceptor in your path isn't evading so no variable die is rolled. Also as all possible targets have not moved out of their path they cannot change the direction of their charge.

awesum4 wrote:Except that page 56 says "any battlegroup in the path of a charge counts as being charged", if the path stops at the point of first contact the word "any" wouldn't be there it would say "only the first battlegroup that is contacted counts as being charged" or something very similar.

Nobody has said the path stops at first contact. The path is all legal targets when the charge is declared. As explained earlier if a base must step forward it can be intercepted for as far as it must step forwards.

several people have stated the charge path stops at the light foot, ie the original point of contact.
Stepping forward is irrelevant if the target is evading.

awesum4 wrote:several people have stated the charge path stops at the light foot,

Thats because they are the only target of the charge