Slitherine

Just out of interest I have been looking on tinterweb for anything about their performance and they do seem rather good. I think I have also seen somewhere that the Poles did not perform very well on occasion, whether this was the Poles as a whole or the Hussars I cannot remember. Where is it written that they were not very good (FOG(R) as opposed to very good (WRG, in fact most other rule sets?)

Being better at impact isn't worth nearly as much as being better in melee. For 23 points per stand, impact mounted perhaps should be ++ at impact, that might be about right. DH just isn't afraid of them as is, but that would change if they were ++ at impact.

++ at impact.

i like that idea

kevinj wrote:Although we're specifically considering the Poles here, the same issues also apply to Swedish and French Impact mounted. Whilst the POA revision is a new consideration for Fog R, it was one of a number of options that were considered and tested to resolve similar issues in Fog AM and has emerged as the best solution that did not involve points changes (which were excluded from the V2 options).

The Finns have some notable differences, in particular there is a lot of flexibility in how to take them. You can for instance buy the Finns as Impact Mounted/Pistol instead of Impact Mounted/Sw. This is not necessarily a straight forward choice as each has different advantages - but I have bought them as pistols instead of swords and probably would in the future. This guarantees they are not down a double PoA in melee and 6 dice vs. 4 down only one PoA is not too bad really....

MatteoPasi wrote: I'd like a small but interesting change of rules:
DH, Cavaliers and Gendarmes in second ranks in melee has to be able to combat like horses (so 1 dice each).

In a tipical melee between Ho and DH (with no more than a single overlap, never seen a melee with 2 overlap) this modify can give the second some advantage

That would encourage DH and Cavaliers to fight in 2-deep formations.... which is exactly what they are not supposed to do, as the classification of these troops is that they represent Horse who historically fought in shallower formations....

How about allowing DH and Cavaliers to always roll one extra dice whenever they are counting dice for overlaps. So 1 base overlap gives 2 dice, and 2 overlaps gives 3 dice in overlap?

I'm not so sure that DH aren't supposed to operate in 2 ranks, although I'd agree about Gendarmes and Cavaliers - DH also represents Cromwell's Ironsides (amongst other similar types) who definitely didn't fight in shallower formations and weren't supposed to charge at the gallop, I think the phrase used is a "good round trot".

RBS has posted before that it wasn't the intention that all DH should be portrayed as single rank as the idea was to allow them to continue to have 4 dice fighting on a 2 base frontage even after a base loss; grind down their opponents rather than sweep them away.

It's just that neither way of looking at it accounts for just how pants Winged Hussars are for the points.

Three wrote:RBS has posted before that it wasn't the intention that all DH should be portrayed as single rank as the idea was to allow them to continue to have 4 dice fighting on a 2 base frontage even after a base loss; grind down their opponents rather than sweep them away.

This is something that tends to be a general problem in FoG. Weaker, but more numerous troops, have a hard time grinding down the opposition (see Romans vs. Barbarians in AM).

That said I think the dynamic that was intended in FoGR for hussars was that they would be able to break off and charge again. So you take your Hussars in a 2x2 formation, charge and hope for disruption. If the enemy disrupts then you are probably find with your swords. If they don't you take your lumps and break off. The trouble is you can only break off if disrupted. But in some ways the danger is not being disrupted, it is being stuck in melee steady against troops with better PoAs.

The really terribly situation is with Curassier. You are both steady, both superior and they have a double PoA, so you wind up getting ground down with casaulties and never breaking off. They are pretty likely to be hitting your 3 or 4 times each melee (superior/double PoA). You are unlikly to hit them more than 2 or 3 times - so not much chance they will fail a death roll.

Now if you could break off from steady moutned if you were steady...then this might be more viable. The hussars charge in with a decent advantage (less PoA than in melee, but better minuses on the cohesion test and if the curassiers ever fail a test they are basically finished) in impact, but hurting in melee. Both sides have to survive a pretty bad death roll/CT and the Hussars get to inflict the bad result first.

If this were the case I would certainly back the hussars to win by quite a bit. They are reasonly likely to pass their CTs and at worst are looking at losing a base each time they charge. Being 4 base superior DH they can lose two bases and still charge, so they get 3 chances at the curassier (assuming the battlefield is other wise static). This may in fact be too good, maybe make a CT to break off if steady or something?

madaxeman wrote:

MatteoPasi wrote: I'd like a small but interesting change of rules:
DH, Cavaliers and Gendarmes in second ranks in melee has to be able to combat like horses (so 1 dice each).

In a tipical melee between Ho and DH (with no more than a single overlap, never seen a melee with 2 overlap) this modify can give the second some advantage

That would encourage DH and Cavaliers to fight in 2-deep formations.... which is exactly what they are not supposed to do, as the classification of these troops is that they represent Horse who historically fought in shallower formations....

How about allowing DH and Cavaliers to always roll one extra dice whenever they are counting dice for overlaps. So 1 base overlap gives 2 dice, and 2 overlaps gives 3 dice in overlap?

I like your proposal but the problem is that they never can have a single overlap vs massed curassiers.
They where used to stay in line (shallower formation) 'cose they never met H.Arm. Horses , If they met them they probably had to change formation (or die)
Having te second rank fighting at 1/2 dices mean that they always have the same number of dices (overlap or second rank), if they want more they have to expand into combat (and this is good)

ethan wrote: Now if you could break off from steady moutned if you were steady...then this might be more viable. The hussars charge in with a decent advantage (less PoA than in melee, but better minuses on the cohesion test and if the curassiers ever fail a test they are basically finished) in impact, but hurting in melee. Both sides have to survive a pretty bad death roll/CT and the Hussars get to inflict the bad result first.

If this were the case I would certainly back the hussars to win by quite a bit. They are reasonly likely to pass their CTs and at worst are looking at losing a base each time they charge. Being 4 base superior DH they can lose two bases and still charge, so they get 3 chances at the curassier (assuming the battlefield is other wise static). This may in fact be too good, maybe make a CT to break off if steady or something?

Hmmm - yeah, I see your point.

How about Steady can break off from steady opponents in their own turn only?

Or an enemy turn only ?

The latter means they need to survive 2 rounds of melee, so will likley be eroded a bit by then anyway...

madaxeman wrote:How about Steady can break off from steady opponents in their own turn only?

yeah i thought that might be an alternative to takinga CT. This would likely get your at least two charges and would have the option to break off and charge again more or less immediately. Probably a better solution than the CT.