Slitherine

Thx a bunch

Redid my installation, played the first scn again - looks quite different now. Even my core...

Missed a DV for one turn this time....

Now with the correct installation, I continued the campaign with Anzio: DV at the end (turn 12)

I found prestige now a bit more of a prob, but still it's doable. I bought a Hellcat SPAT, and dissolved two units for PP: the M3 scout car, and the Sherman/inf combi (close). Dunno if the latter was a bright idea, since it seems a good unit, but it got mauled badly and maintaining it seems to be quite expensive (at least if you want to use elite reinforcements) so I bought normal inf instead.

Overall very cool and fun to play

To be continued...

Finished Anzio Breakout, of course it was more difficult now, finally got a DV at turn 13.

I got that Tiger captured, it ended up as size 1 in my army, which was a nice touch. I think I will delete him for PP though. I'm not sure which triggered it - there was one Tiger defending the central objective, then one popping up around Rome later - both got destroyed. Bought a M4A3 (76).

A general comment: Personally, now that I am playing the allied side, I have some issues with the way how things are represented in the stock game (and so appear now here as well). I dunno if you want to go into modding these, but I think some air unit stats would maybe profit from changes.

For example the P47 fighter line seems overall the best US choice, leaving the P51 as a unit of minor importance. P47s have better air attack than the P51D, which has only a minor advantage in initiative. It has more fuel though, but when the P47N appear it gets beaten in this field too.

IMO there are similar issues for the Brits, but since this is played from the US side it might be less important here.

As said, this is not primarily about the mod, and I dunno how far you want to go into modding the stock units, I just thought I throw it in here.

Overall I am absolutely enjoying this mod. Next will be the Gothic Line

bebro wrote:I got that Tiger captured, it ended up as size 1 in my army, which was a nice touch. I think I will delete him for PP though. I'm not sure which triggered it - there was one Tiger defending the central objective, then one popping up around Rome later - both got destroyed. Bought a M4A3 (76).

When you destroyed the Hermann Goering Division Tiger unit (10 strength) near Valmentone you captured some in a repairable condition which were sent back to the repair centres. If you had not sold it and refitted it (to a maximum of 5) it would have represented repairing more Tigers. The second Tiger is the same unit but assumed to have retreated to Rome. I have made a design decision, based on reading about battles, that PzC cannot replicate the retreating of divisions - it only allows the regiments et al to be destroyed. So what I've done is set a trigger than when x or less units of a division exist a smaller force of the same division, with lower strength and less experience to represent lack of cohesion, will appear further back to approximate a retreat. So, that second Tiger was the first Tiger in retreat!

I am not an air war expert in any sense and wouldn't feel confident to suggest changes to the unit stats but am more than happy to implement any historically-based suggestions. The P-47 is far and away the best PzC US plane in the roster IMO.

Glad you're enjoying it.

I was thinking along those lines:

P51D vs. P47s

- the first was the better dogfighter, but has only one more ini, and less air attack even compared to the P47B
- the latter has two more MGs, which would justify a higher AA, however, the P47B, D and N have all the same MGs, but B comes out with 18, D with 20, and N with a whopping AA of 24

Personally I'd give the P51D a bit more ini and/or better AA. I'd reduce ini for P47B 11>10, the P47N's AA 24>22.

However, overall players can live well with P47s instead of P51s, and in the end stats are always debatable so I guess it's more a question what units you want make "the first choice". These would just be my ideas for those units

Finished Gothic Line: DV at the last turn (15)

Found this the most difficult of all played so far - very challenging

Esp. the first turns were tricky, I restarted the scn after I got a bloody nose in the first try.

I had bad luck with weather mostly, so couldn't use my air force to full effect. However, in the end I had also luck to make the DV, since the defenders of Bologna were eager to attack my arty-backed units in front of the city, which did more bad than good for them.

My core is now:

2x Inf 43/truck
2x Inf 43 HW/halftrack
2x M4A3/76
2xSPAT (M10, Hellcat)
2xSParty (M7)
1 towed arty (105mm)

3xFGT
1xTAC

Gothic is fairly challenging in the opening turns. Did the panzergrenadiers in the west of the map attack to any effect? Did you leave any objectives empty and have German stragglers re-occupy them?

The use of attacking defenders is a two-edged sword, as you point out. On the one hand they cause damage to units parking adjacent but they also risk the artillery barrage that you obviously set up! The other thing is that when they are forced to retreat by suppression, even if there is a clear adjacent hex, they will surrender. That's different to the normal PzC experience but I think it is quite 'realistic' and don't worry about it.

There was an attack from the west but I had withdrawn my units there behind a river since the cities there were not objectives. So that attack was brave, but short-lived

Since the briefings warned about units behind the front I did guard many objectives with some of those size 5 recons, or with weakened units I had thrown at the fortifications in the first wave. There were some units (paras IIRC) popping up on my way north though in the mountains ranges.

I think the campaign, esp. this scn capture very well the character of the Italian campaign - difficult terrain, slow advance, stubborn resistance.

You can play on to the hypothetical Red Dawn scenarios where you will take on the Soviet Army.

I've finished the Maelstrom Campaign, but how do I play on to the Red Dawn scenarios? I assumed that this meant that I'd be able to save my core and use it for Red Dawn. Am I wrong?

It requires a DV in the Po Valley scenario, then you're given the option to play the hypothetical Red Dawn campaign or finish historically.

El_Condoro wrote:A couple of the new units in Maelstrom.

To try to get closer to US armored doctrine, the tank and the infantry have been combined into a single unit. The unit is switchable so that it can fight simply as a Sherman or a Sherman with close infantry support.

Wow. Fantastic idea!

It requires a DV in the Po Valley scenario, then you're given the option to play the hypothetical Red Dawn campaign or finish historically.

Ah, I only achieved a MV in the Po valley - back to try again, I supppose. Thanks for the info.

Don't forget to enlist the help of the partisans and finish off Mussolini - it all helps.

I hunted every square inch of those mountains, but I couldn't find 'Il Duce'. Any clues?

Como (top-left of map) is defended by a German unit called 'Mussolini'. Destroy his guard and kill him and a partisan unit called 'Mussolini's body' will appear. Get the body to Milan city square and the other partisans around the map will activate.

[Edit] This is explained in the 'Extra information' part of the briefing. One day the briefing will be available from within the game so it's easier to recall important information, I hope.

OK, thanks. I agree that it would be nice to be able to view the briefing from within the scenario.

Well, it's only my opinion and you don't need to hear it but...I don't find this as a good idea. As PC units are not single-, or homogeneous units, but they represents mixed organisations. So, a tank represents an armored division, or an armored regiment, or battalion - but not only tanks.
So, I think, in this way, what you made, you created super-units. Like, you would merge a full-scale fighter and a full-scale bomber together, with all of their positive statistic, but without negativ ones. That makes a unit unbalanced.
But it's your campaign, you should do, what you want.

El_Condoro wrote:A couple of the new units in Maelstrom.
To try to get closer to US armored doctrine, the tank and the infantry have been combined into a single unit. The unit is switchable so that it can fight simply as a Sherman or a Sherman with close infantry support.

Similarly, infantry do not need to dismount from their M3 half-tracks to assault targets - the M3 and the infantry are combined, albeit with a reduced MV of 5. This unit is also switchable to act as a normal M3 half-track for faster movement (and weaker attack).

Thanks for sharing your opinion - there is no requirement to agree with me! I actually had the same fear and, to some extent, I think the Sherman/Inf combo (Command Command) is too strong as it stands. The M3/Inf combo (Regimental Combat Team) is not as powerful and works well. Both are so expensive that in my tests anyway there were not too many of them. I think if I tone down the CC a bit it will be better. I still stand by the concept though.
Cheers

[Edit]

Uhu wrote: As PC units are not single-, or homogeneous units, but they represents mixed organisations. So, a tank represents an armored division, or an armored regiment, or battalion - but not only tanks.

This is what I thought but in discussions during the beta testing it was pointed out that stats are for individual equipment. e.g. a Panther battalion or regiment would normally have AA and other units attached but in PzC the stats are for a Panther, not Panther + AA etc.

Indeed the Sherman+Inf, is expensive,but it should be. The the units is powerfull,but it should be to reflect the homogenous combined arms within it.Also the price should reflect that there were not may independent Regimental Combat teams (332nd,336th..I think there was only ten real teams in the ETO).

There were alot of Combat Commands,but they resembled the modern briagde concept,but within a division. They had everything from grunts to supply pouges

In any case the Combat Command/Regimental Combat Team concept came into being later in the war. Mainly in response the rapid advances of the US Army and the need for a unit to have everything it needed to sustain itself on prolonged absences away from the division train.

I would like to see the M3/Inf to represent a Cav regiment. They were set up like the Combat Teams ,but with more manpower to offset the lighter armored punch. They wouldn't have to be a "recon unit",just a unit with light tanks and a good/high movement rate.

So the prices and power are good as they are,imho.

The only thing I would do (if you wanted to limit their use) is maybe place the Indepent Combat Team on the map as a "bonus" core (making the units a no-puchase----but pugradable like the captured units in the DLC's),beings that the bonus system seems not to be working with other countrie than Germany. I think you could even make it a true bonus so as to not count against the players core slots. The game is not awarding non-German bonuses,but they can still be placed on the map.

I still love the idea of the Teams and again in my opinion it fits perfectly in the mod and I would not like to see the Team nerfed,but it's your party and you get to make the final decisions.

Great job on this mod El Condoro

beings that the bonus system seems not to be working with other countrie than Germany.

You might be happy to know that I have fixed that in the latest (soon to be?) release - the SE/bonus concept is working with a US corps. The elite/SE units I have so far are:
101AB (of course!!)
82AB
10Mtn
British commandos
Rangers (no longer in the mix with the grunts)
RCT (they are still purchasable, too, but I might change that)
CC (as for the RCT)
and a couple of others I can't remember.

I was very excited when I saw the first US elite unit pop up at the start of a scenario!