Slitherine

Stauffenberg, could you give us the reasoning for originally lowering the Air Techs?
Personally, I know the Germans were flying the Me-262 by 1943, but due to the insanity of Luftwaffe heads, they kept trying to turn it into a bomber instead of a fighter. For 'sane' players, being able to reach the Me-262 in 1943 is completely historical.

leridano wrote:I vote yes to increase air techs by 5.

This change would reduce the axis chance of winning, right?

shawkhan wrote:Stauffenberg, could you give us the reasoning for originally lowering the Air Techs?
Personally, I know the Germans were flying the Me-262 by 1943, but due to the insanity of Luftwaffe heads, they kept trying to turn it into a bomber instead of a fighter. For 'sane' players, being able to reach the Me-262 in 1943 is completely historical.

I don't know why they did it in the vanilla game. It was before I got involved.

BuddyGrant wrote:

leridano wrote:I vote yes to increase air techs by 5.

This change would reduce the axis chance of winning, right?

I actually think it's the opposite. The Germans can focus on air tech quite early and that means they will get an air advantage. Since they cap out later it means the Allies will spend more time to catch the German air techs.

The biggest issue I see with the change is that it simply makes it even more important to focus on dogfight if it advances more slowly, but I don't like that almost all players manage to cap out the air techs before 1945. I usually manage to do it in 1943 and that's way too early.

I also agree that the change will slightly favour the germans, specially in Eastern front since the soviets will need more time to catch the germans. This will result in guaranteed german air superiority in the east until late 1942 at least.

leridano wrote:This will result in guaranteed german air superiority in the east until late 1942 at least.

In the majority of my games as both the axis and allies the Germans have air superiority in the east into 1944. I don't think we need to do anything that makes it harder for Russia in the air.

Since we don't get many yes votes I think we leave things as is for the moment. We can remember it as a possible future tweak if we feel we need to do anything. It's very easy to alter general.txt and change these values.

rkr1958 wrote:

leridano wrote:This will result in guaranteed german air superiority in the east until late 1942 at least.

In the majority of my games as both the axis and allies the Germans have air superiority in the east into 1944. I don't think we need to do anything that makes it harder for Russia in the air.

Really? May be your opponents did not properly invest into soviet air tech level. And if this is so we have here a problem since the real russians really had air superiority in the east in 1944. We have to also keep in mind that the soviets have an advantage in winter weather over the germans.

leridano wrote:

rkr1958 wrote:

leridano wrote:This will result in guaranteed german air superiority in the east until late 1942 at least.

In the majority of my games as both the axis and allies the Germans have air superiority in the east into 1944. I don't think we need to do anything that makes it harder for Russia in the air.

Really? May be your opponents did not properly invest into soviet air tech level. And if this is so we have here a problem since the real russians really had air superiority in the east in 1944. We have to also keep in mind that the soviets have an advantage in winter weather over the germans.

It's usually me and air labs with a focus in dogfighting is my first lab and second lab-set build. The issue in 1944 is not technology but number of fighters.

In my last two games as axis (against Plaid and now with Mikko in my AAR) the soviets have 9 air combat factor by late 1943/early 1944 (actually Mikko has 9 air combat factor in soviet fighters). This supposes air superiority for the soviets both in number of air units and quality (german manpower issue affects german fighters quality when repairing losses).

Anyway, if we see that this possible change could create some balance issues (I´m not really sure of it) may be the best thing is to leave this question for the moment.

I figured adding 5 would only reduce the overall speed of airtech advance for all sides which always seems to be very fast compared to other techs. If you feel it changes the gamebalance then it's probably better left alone.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, but what versions of GS where the last two Max vs Morris games?

In the case where the Axis puts off Barbarossa until 1942 the Air Tech situation is liable to be disastrous for the Russians as they aren't allowed to increase their Research labs at the normal rate.

you looked at games when he was the Axis you saw him get past Moscow in 1941 using his armor and mech blob strategy

Can someone explain exactly what this blob strategy is? In previous posts it was described as a sort of hack or exploit. Other posts refer to it as a valid tactic. I think I've seen it in some AARs.

You basically build so many tanks that they swarm the opponent.

In a little more detail, you only invets in ARM and only in ARM technology.

Essentialy you assume you can win by 43 nad therefore don't need any balance of research or troops.

You take Moscow in 41 or early 42 and Omsk in 43.

It is terrifying to be on the recieving end!

Thanks for the replies!

So, is this tactic still effective with the latest mod (2.1)?

The Soviets in the 1939 scenario will start with at least 10 MECHs, and then they desperately buy ARMs and ARM techs before Barbarossa.

But I guess the Germans will have superior ARM techs and lots of TAC and will grind down the Soviets during the 1941 invasion using the dreaded "BLOB".

I want to try a straight up Soviet attack strategy. As soon as France falls, I will start building up ARMs and TACs and go for a May 41 Barbarossa.

Having launched Sealion several times after the battle for France, I suggest an option for the UK to offer armistice if both London and Liverpool surrender with all the ground forces still in the UK surrendering if the Germans accept (although the Crown and the Churchill government may still flee to Canada to continue the fight as Free British forces). That will then help the Germans prepare for Barbarossa in 1941 instead of spending all of that year slugging it out in Scotland and Scapa Flow.

rtamesis wrote:Having launched Sealion several times after the battle for France, I suggest an option for the UK to offer armistice if both London and Liverpool surrender with all the ground forces still in the UK surrendering if the Germans accept (although the Crown and the Churchill government may still flee to Canada to continue the fight as Free British forces). That will then help the Germans prepare for Barbarossa in 1941 instead of spending all of that year slugging it out in Scotland and Scapa Flow.

Certainly seems like a reasonable possibility, despite Churchill speeches, realism would probably have prompted an offer, but what happens to UK forces in other countries, e.g. the Middle -east. The UK takes over Free French forces after the French armistice, who will take over British forces if the US is not in the war.

Rasputitsa wrote:

rtamesis wrote:Having launched Sealion several times after the battle for France, I suggest an option for the UK to offer armistice if both London and Liverpool surrender with all the ground forces still in the UK surrendering if the Germans accept (although the Crown and the Churchill government may still flee to Canada to continue the fight as Free British forces). That will then help the Germans prepare for Barbarossa in 1941 instead of spending all of that year slugging it out in Scotland and Scapa Flow.

Certainly seems like a reasonable possibility, despite Churchill speeches, realism would probably have prompted an offer, but what happens to UK forces in other countries, e.g. the Middle -east. The UK takes over Free French forces after the French armistice, who will take over British forces if the US is not in the war.

Some of those British colonies could declare independence if the UK surrendered, but the vast majority I suspect would still take their orders from the Crown and the British government in exile in Canada (assuming they make it out of the British Isles and avoid the U-boats). I proposed the option, because I think that whoever the Churchill administration left behind in charge to face the Germans will probably want to spare as many civilians as possible from further devastation of their homeland in a protracted war. Britain did have its local Nazi sympathizers who probably would have cooperated with the Germans in forming a government and who would have invited the Duke of Windsor to return from the Bahamas as King.