Slitherine

@impar You need constant client updates for offline mode to work for a offline game disconnected from the internet.Even for games you backed up via Steam you still need to be online to reactivate them.If for any reason you lose acess to the internet you are at the mercy of Steam's offline mode working correctly which it doesn't.

DSWargamer wrote:

Molve wrote:Look, nobody's said it outright so I'll do it:

A remake of Panzer General is still a remake of a decade old game.

It simply isn't perceived to be worth $40. I've read the reviews, and nothing I've read so far suggests there's any substantial added value over those great old games, other than the simple fact Panzer Corps is available here and now, and PG isn't. It's possible I've missed something, but that's beside the point: the public perception is that this is almost a retroclone game, and you don't pay forty bucks for retroclones.

If you sell it on Steam for, say, $15, you don't lose a forty dollar sale. You gain a customer who would otherwise pirate the game, or simply ignore it. Steam is that convenient.

If you are happy with the sales trickling in from your own web shop, fine. No need to change anything. But if you want to gain $10.50 (assuming Steam takes 30%) from those who otherwise would have paid you nothing, put it up on Steam. Not a year from now - today!

Since you get ten bucks instead of forty, you need more than four times the sales to make Steam worthwhile. And this potential is real, and it is there, on Steam. I know it can be tough as a small-time developer/publisher; and that Steam can feel a bit scary. But you apparently overvalue the perceived worth of your labor here, and you needed to hear this from someone.

Best regards and good luck in the future!
Molve

Need to respond to this

"Look, nobody's said it outright so I'll do it:

A remake of Panzer General is still a remake of a decade old game.

I need to say this, yet another *&^%#$@ dumb RTS game will be just another dumb RTS game.
YES there are good ones, they just happen to use apparently boring graphics if you read the comments THEY get. The Airborne Assault engine is the only intelligent way to design a real time based game.
Sudden Strike simply can't be remade in a way I would want if it was free. Same for Blitzkrieg. Same for any of the buggy HoI disasters. They are rediculous games that simulate nothing. They just don't give you an unrealistic experience turn by turn. And they do this farce with pretty graphics. It's no better than trying to have an indepth discussion with a moron.

I don't play shooters for a reason, they are brutally unrealistic when you consider no one is interested in playing them realistically. The only one I have ever seen worth the time, was Battlefield 1942, because it never wasted effort being 'realistic'. It's just silly bugger and it is best when the designers remember that is all any gamer will treat it like.

There were never all that many wargamers into playing board game wargames. Our numbers will never be epic.
And all we want, and we expect it too, is for our computer games to look like out board games. And aside from those types that refuse to find opponents to begin with, a decent AI in a game has only ever been useful as a training tool.
The best part of Panzer Korps, is the part where it is attached to a great multi player server. Because that is all that will ever make this game successful. Otherwise it is really just a very well patched updated cosmetically face lifted Panzer General.

I paid my 40 bucks knowing I was getting a good deal. If I don't play any multiplayer though, I threw away the money.

Please do not put out personal opinions as facts. A lot of us like HoI, and HOI is not an RTS, it's pausable real time game, more akin to turn based than to true RTS.

That said - PzC is a remake, but it's a good remake, it's not afraid to retain the elements of the original that worked. And I can't agree that MP is the only way to go, I'm having a lot of fun with AI.

EuroBoss wrote:@impar You need constant client updates for offline mode to work for a offline game disconnected from the internet.Even for games you backed up via Steam you still need to be online to reactivate them.If for any reason you lose acess to the internet you are at the mercy of Steam's offline mode working correctly which it doesn't.

No, not really. Depends on the game in question. For example you can run all the Paradox games bought on steam without ever touching or running the steam client Plus there is nothing wrong with doing the Steam client update once every few weeks, who in this day and time can't connect to the internet once a month? If you can't, how did you install them in the first place?

Borsook wrote:

EuroBoss wrote:@impar You need constant client updates for offline mode to work for a offline game disconnected from the internet.Even for games you backed up via Steam you still need to be online to reactivate them.If for any reason you lose acess to the internet you are at the mercy of Steam's offline mode working correctly which it doesn't.

No, not really. Depends on the game in question. For example you can run all the Paradox games bought on steam without ever touching or running the steam client Plus there is nothing wrong with doing the Steam client update once every few weeks, who in this day and time can't connect to the internet once a month? If you can't, how did you install them in the first place?

All games bought via steam need the client that's just fact.Also it's myth that everybody is on a high speed connection.The only way other way you could play Steam games is via a cracked copy of the client or a hacked version.

bwort wrote:i bought this game here and just added it to my steam libary. Many in my friendlist asking me: wtf are u playing there?

Same here. But the Steam interface (Shift+Tab) doesnt work for me with this game. It works for you?

EuroBoss wrote:@impar You need constant client updates for offline mode to work for a offline game disconnected from the internet.

You will eventually need to connect to Steam. It will check for client updates and games updates. The client updates are very small bandwidth wise and can be made in a very slow internet connection, the game updates depend on what is downloaded (recently Steam introduced a new method of update to reduce bandwith use).

Let's keep this polite please everyone.

Steam is just another shop window. Fans of Steam think it's the only shop. As Matrix we've been delivering digital downloads longer than Steam. We're the biggest specialist wargames and strategy games publisher in the world and have sold millions of games, on all platforms from PC to iPhone and PS3, to a hard core fan base of around 100,000 users. Steam appeals to a larger mass market audience.

We always look at all of our options and maybe we will work with Steam one day. We also looked at Impulse. Using either would mean making updates was much more complex. Anyone who does any kind of DRM or wrapping just reduces our flexibility for releasing updates as we have to provide the updates in multiple formats at the same time. We prefer to have one installer that works for all to keep devlopment times under control.

We don't have any games on Impulse - the only games there were produced by other developers who we also work with.

We have tried Gamers Gate as we were able to use our own serial number system without DRM, but so far haven't really sold anything.

Would we sell more units at a lower price on Steam - almost certainly. Would we make more money - who knows. The team have invested too much in this to take any risks so ensure the ongoing development of the series decided this was the best approach.

Can we stop the Steam is better/worse than Slitherine/Matrix discussions now

Not going to copy paste a lot of stuff unrelated.

"Please do not put out personal opinions as facts. A lot of us like HoI, and HOI is not an RTS, it's pausable real time game, more akin to turn based than to true RTS."

I wish they were more than just opinions, but I never said they were scientific facts either

HoI though calling it pauseable real time, or RTS, none of that means anything in comparing it to a turn based design.

I was merely making a counter whine to your own whine which was also just an opinion, never accused you of claiming it as otherwise either eh

Calling Panzer Korps a decade old game in a new wrapper though is not overly nice to the guy that did all the hard work.
Calling the new wrapper lame graphics is both insulting, and missing a very important truth (which actually is closer to fact than some of the twitch kids wish to accept), the simple truth is, the 'old graphics' have as much value to old wargames, as old cars with old designs have to old vehicle lovers.

If I had so little as just two genuine card board pushing old school wargamers living in town that were cool with wargaming on the weekend for at least 3 hours on a regular basis, I would have never EVER encountered computer wargaming at all.
Some of us are ONLY interested in computer wargames as a means to an end.

We do NOT always find 3d or real time at all appealing or necessary or even the objective desired.

Just because the younger crowd is in love with high powered demanding graphics experiences featuring real time, and 3d and looking near to a movie, doesn't mean the older buggers around here really always want to join them

At any rate, the bottom line is HoI is NOT a maybe turn based game, not a sort of turn based game, not 'akin' to using turns. It's real time mode, there are NO turns, it has an on and an off mode you can call pause mode if it suits you of course. The minute you select start again though, it goes back to be turnless real time in varying levels of speed.
And yes some like the game. I see them freak out every so often over the various bugs on other forums periodically They seem like gluttons for abuse Well their particular games variety of abuse that is

This was never intended to be a meanie post by the way.
Just pointing out, that perhaps what we have here in Panzer Korps is a fine example of the old addage, if it isn't broke, don't fix it
3d and real time, would ruin this game.
Then again, 3d and real time, it would no longer be a Panzer General like experience and the name would be at that point not relevant.

During my download of Magic the Gathering Duel of the Planeswalkers (friend bugged me to get it today) I discovered (while wandering my interface for Steam) that the interface can launch other non Steam games.

Inasmuch as that sounds 'neat' I was a bit put off by how the program seems rather 'effective' and snooping at my computer over all.
The list of files it brought up while 'browsing' was to say the least a bit comprehensive and I must say bordering on offensive.

If a guest in my home who was just that a guest and not a close friend or anything were to go and bring me a list of say all my personal information off of my computer, I'd likely freak out and tell him to get his nosy ass out of my home.

Can't really seem to do that with Steam, you either run it or you don't, but is seems the not run it alternative, is to not have Steam games.
I think to some extent, that might be why some are so noisy about saying they will go without a game rather than interact with Steam.

To be fair to Steam on that point it probably knows the registry setting of any games that it sells via its system and as part of its routine just checks to see if they are installed, so it is unlikely to do more than have a check list of things to look at and it just says is this game installed yes/no. I'd be very surprised if it actually looks around your machine as it would be very slow to check and a lot of development time to implement so a big waste of effort and also not very reliable.

Anyway lets leave it at that - this discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere and people seem to either Love or Hate Steam.