Slitherine

robman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:19 am and the cost of vehicles should vary with time: initially more expensive, then dropping as the type is mass produced or becomes obsolete.

Somehow it already does. In 1942 it doesnt make sense to get the original models of Pz III or PIV, its just canon fodder. So it doesnt really matter how expensive these vehicles are.

In 1942/1943 the feature gets more interesting again. If you got only a small amount of Pz IV F/G or some early Tiger tanks its very annoying if you lose them. Later its getting boring again, doesnt really matter if you but a Panther D, A, G or even the prototype model. Like a said before, the feature needs a shared pool for some models.

Talking about infantry I never had a problem with the limited stock. I always equip my infantry with speciell heroes, so the enemy doesnt fire back, or at aleast I shoot first. You also get a lots a super heroes for infantry, so if you keep them protected in the enemies turn, you wont have much losses.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:06 amTalking about infantry I never had a problem with the limited stock. I always equip my infantry with speciell heroes, so the enemy doesnt fire back, or at aleast I shoot first. You also get a lots a super heroes for infantry, so if you keep them protected in the enemies turn, you wont have much losses.

I should have been more specific--I tried 20-slot limited deployment on the vanilla campaign, not AO. I started running out of engineers by the time I reached Moscow, though I was fielding no more than two or three engineering units. Heroes and awards are still few and far between in the vanilla campaign at that point.

sorr<y, but i dont understand the complaints.

Well, running short of units like engineers IS the fun point (for me)with that challenge ?

You have to alter your gameplay, to save/protect precious units. I mean whats the point in choosing a special challenge but expect to play and act like without that challenge, using x units of engineers, fighter aircraft or paratroopers and and "waste" them like without limited stock ?

I.e. engineers, how can i support them to reduce losses, what heros may help em survive, is OS an option, where do i really need engineers on this map and so on.

Bee1976 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:55 pm You have to alter your gameplay, to save/protect precious units.

Exactly. It got me yesterday as I attacked Moscow. My best Panther division got hammered. I withdrew it all the way to spawn point to protect it rather than risk losing it forever.

It hurt my advance on the left and it took me about 5 turns to overcome it, but that's the way it's supposed to work. I was actually livid when it happened because it was my own stupid mistake for moving too far forward too fast.

It makes the game far, far better.

robman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:45 pm I should have been more specific--I tried 20-slot limited deployment on the vanilla campaign, not AO. I started running out of engineers by the time I reached Moscow, though I was fielding no more than two or three engineering units. Heroes and awards are still few and far between in the vanilla campaign at that point.

That amount of engineers might be the problem. Iirc I was only using 1 engineer for a long period and you shouldnt get more that two. How much infantry do you use at all?

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:40 amThat amount of engineers might be the problem. Iirc I was only using 1 engineer for a long period and you shouldnt get more that two. How much infantry do you use at all?

At Moscow I fielded seven: two engineers, two mountain, two grenadiers, and one paratrooper. I would have fielded three engineers, I imagine, if they weren't already running low.

Well, if you ask me thats too much infantry. It's hard to protect all of them, you will have losses inevitably. I recommend you to focus more on tanks + artillery/air support. If you play infantry vs infantry you will struggle with limited stock.

I took your helpful comments to heart, rethought my game play, and now I'm a convert to Limited Stock, set to 20. For the benefit of other newbies, here are some tips for playing with this feature:
(1) Don't field engineers unless you really need them, say for minefields or major fortifications. The AI singles them out for attack, which eats into the number available later on, when you really do need them.
(2) Any reinforcement of auxiliary units draws upon your limited stock. I learned this the hard way when I fielded an additional paratrooper in Norway South.
(3) Units in reserve take up limited stock, so if a unit in reserve is in short supply, downgrade it to something that you have plenty of.
(4) As the feature is currently implemented, you cannot see the number remaining in the stock when you reinforce a unit, either during or between scenarios. If you click the upgrade button, you will see the number available for other types, but not for the type of the unit selected. The best way to see the total number remaining is to click the purchase screen. This works during scenarios as well.
(5) Delay fielding newly available infantry units unless you really need them in the scenario. 5 reinforcements (20 - 15) don't go very far where infantry is concerned.
I hope others find this useful. Thanks again for the helpful responses to my earlier post!

rgreat wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:13 pm Added workaround in a mod:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2695232427

You mention on your mod it is simple to change as it is just a text file, where is the text file? I looked and couldn't find it.

This is a great feature but the obvious solution is to apply 1.5x to infantry as was suggested since infantry are naturally 1.5 vehicle units anyway. I look forward to playing with this once it gets fleshed out a bit.

Really interesting feature, I was thinking of playing the AO's again with this.

I imagine it might be painful initially because at the start you've pretty much got 3 of every unit to begin with. I guess it'll force diversity and teach us not to get damaged.

I'm interested in this because perhaps it'll make me change up my Infantry-meta. I pretty much stick to Engineers and paratroops only, don't have time to be sitting down bombing things all day!

RVallant wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:30 pm Really interesting feature, I was thinking of playing the AO's again with this.

You should do this, its changing a lot. I will never play without that feature.
If you get new equipment you really have to think twice which unit you will upgrade. You will no longer be able to keep all of your core up to date. You might even be forced to downupgrade, when you run out of units.

Not a bad idea, but has some *major* downsides and I will *never* use it (as currently implemented). It basically takes the "prototype" paradigm (which I *hate*) and applies it to all units.

1) It *vastly* increases the odds of losing an experienced unit as you won't be able to repair it after you hit your supply limit.
1a) If enabled, I would 'save' destroyed units at size 0 with experience intact so they can be rebuilt.

2) Treating all units as having equal scarcity is unreasonable and *hugely* ahistorical...
This feature would be vastly better if there were different scarcity categories and those change over time...
Scarcity categories: Unlimited, Generous, Normal, Scarce, Rare, None
Example (early campaign):
Panzer-1a - Unlimited
Panzer 2 - Normal
Panzer 3 Scarce
Panzer 4 Rare

As the campaign progresses, the scarcer units become more available, but some limited units (e.g., jets might never get more available than Scarce).

3) An alternative design thought, use the limits for "normal" replacement costs, but allow replacements in excess of limits at additional cost (e.g., 2-3x).

brettwjohnson wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:28 pm 1) It *vastly* increases the odds of losing an experienced unit as you won't be able to repair it after you hit your supply limit.

If you lose a unit because you run out of replacements during a battle thats your fault as commander. Either keep a better eye on these units or dont use units, if you often rely on repairs. Did you try "old guard" trait in your campaign? It saves your units at least with 50% of their experience.

Sounds a bit strange if you say this feature is too ahistorical...is it historical to push a button and get excatly the repairunits you need, 1000km deep in russia, with partisans hiting your suppply lines all the time?
But basically you are right with your idead, there should be some finetuning for this feature.
But if you ask me its way better than having unlimited stock, so I always with it.