Slitherine

13obo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:45 am Btw I often find that I cannot abandon a region conquered on the previous turn. Is there something I'm missing? Some precondition I haven't met?

Never a good idea to do that imho.

You take a big hit to govt stability.

That didn't answer my question... And never say never!

Having followed this closely, I truly hope there is a two state solution.

You can abandon it if it has a "just conquered" marker or has been pillaged according to the patch notes.

Greek tradition states taking others don't get the "just conquered" penalty do they ? That may be why you find you can't abandon the regions ....just a thought.

ledo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:26 pm Having followed this closely, I truly hope there is a two state solution.

Indeed so.

ledo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:26 pm Having followed this closely, I truly hope there is a two state solution.

Hahaha! I was trying to crack a similar joke, but you did it brilliantly! My joke was going to be too distasteful.

devoncop wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:28 pm You can abandon it if it has a "just conquered" marker or has been pillaged according to the patch notes.

Greek tradition states taking others don't get the "just conquered" penalty do they ? That may be why you find you can't abandon the regions ....just a thought.

I've definitely had "just conquered" marker and couldn't abandon provinces when not playing with Greek states. Odd! Thank you though.

13obo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:45 am Btw I often find that I cannot abandon a region conquered on the previous turn. Is there something I'm missing? Some precondition I haven't met?

The only preconditions are that the region must be under 50 Loyalty, and you need an army to trigger it, and plot to move out on the same turn.

So, Syracuse.........should we have a little chat about why you have so many military units dedicated to the island of Cephalonia off the coast of Epirus?

Geffalrus wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:27 pm So, Syracuse.........should we have a little chat about why you have so many military units dedicated to the island of Cephalonia off the coast of Epirus?

Who can honestly say that Cephalonia is not strategically important and a huge flashpoint in almost all games of FoGE ?

devoncop wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:04 am

loki100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:57 am

jimwinsor wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:20 am ... Oh, and some strange men painted in blue who call themselves Picts unsuccessfully raided Gallilea from the sea:

...

och sorry about that, didn't spot the change in owner. But no need to feel bad about it as the Dutch have offered to recompense the Pictish state for the temporary loss of income from Judea

Speaking of which......about this raiding business....I am assuming no Egyptian regions will be targeted ?

well given we are illiterate Picts, unless you put up some clearly labelled stones, mistakes will happen, especially given how fast borders shift in this corner of the world?

loki100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:38 pm

devoncop wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:04 am

loki100 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:57 am

och sorry about that, didn't spot the change in owner. But no need to feel bad about it as the Dutch have offered to recompense the Pictish state for the temporary loss of income from Judea

Speaking of which......about this raiding business....I am assuming no Egyptian regions will be targeted ?

well given we are illiterate Picts, unless you put up some clearly labelled stones, mistakes will happen, especially given how fast borders shift in this corner of the world?

That is completely understood. Cultural diversity and different traditions and norms of behaviour are understood very well in the Palace of Ptolemy.

Unfortunately our training programme on such sensitive matters has yet to be rolled out to the Egyptian navy whose attitudes are regrettably not so progressive.

Ptolemy is sure the Pictish Chiefs will be equally understanding of any actions of the Egyptian naval officers in the event they see any Pictish naval vessels engaged in such "cultural activity".......

If peace offers are on the way from Ptolemy already, well, that’s good news, we are most of the way towards a resolution.

I gather then the only remaining sticking point is Jerusalem. I can sympathize with the Judean position, a Judea without the Temple isn’t quite Judea.

jimwinsor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:12 am

I gather then the only remaining sticking point is Jerusalem. I can sympathize with the Judean position, a Judea without the Temple isn’t quite Judea.

Whilst Egypt admires the Seleucids capacity for optimism the text of our reply is clear the basis of the peace offers is the Antigonid Peace plan rather than the punitive measures proposed in the Seleucid document.

There is a willingness to allow Syria and Phoenicia provinces to be returned to Judean control but the Judeans cannot expect to regain Palaestina Province from Egypt when she has used it as a base to seize the capital of Nabatea earlier in the conflict.

Egypt is prepared to give monetary recompense to Judea to compensate her territorial losses as a gesture of goodwill but also it should be clear that if a nation is at war with her or her allies then they cannot expect Egypt not to financially support other nations fighting against the countries attacking her.

If on the other hand the Seleucids make peace with Egypt of course then no further payments will be made to nations fighting them.

The buffer state suggested by the Seleucids is acceptable to Egypt.

Egypt has no desire to take any further territory from Judea other than Palaestina Province and regarding Arabia her Red Sea bordering regions need to remain Arabian to provide Egypt a "buffer" of her own against Judean expeditions against her southern territories.

Hopefully this has clarified the position fully.

Egypt has absolutely no interest in any conflict with the Seleucids (or further conflict with Judea now they have been punished for their actions in seizing Petra) so it is hoped the peace offers are accepted.

Ptolemy, Pharoah of all Egypt.

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:27 amThere is a willingness to allow Syria and Phoenicia provinces to be returned to Judean control but the Judeans cannot expect to regain Palaestina Province from Egypt when she has used it as a base to seize the capital of Nabatea earlier in the conflict.

I... WHAT?!!?!??!

Given that you declared war on me, I had the right, under the internationally recognized rules of conflict, to occupy territory belonging to you and your puppets.

Egypt has no desire to take any further territory from Judea other than Palaestina Province and regarding Arabia her Red Sea bordering regions need to remain Arabian to provide Egypt a "buffer" of her own against Judean expeditions against her southern territories.

Palaestina Province is the core of Judea. Taking it is ripping the heart out of Judea.

And as for Arabia, we will not take regions bordering your holdings in southern Arabia, but those coastal regions not bordering your lands in southern Arabia will be free for the taking, as you do not need those as a buffer.

Yaitz331 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:04 am

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:27 amThere is a willingness to allow Syria and Phoenicia provinces to be returned to Judean control but the Judeans cannot expect to regain Palaestina Province from Egypt when she has used it as a base to seize the capital of Nabatea earlier in the conflict.

I... WHAT?!!?!??!

Given that you declared war on me, I had the right, under the internationally recognized rules of conflict, to occupy territory belonging to you and your puppets.

Egypt has no desire to take any further territory from Judea other than Palaestina Province and regarding Arabia her Red Sea bordering regions need to remain Arabian to provide Egypt a "buffer" of her own against Judean expeditions against her southern territories.

Palaestina Province is the core of Judea. Taking it is ripping the heart out of Judea.

And as for Arabia, we will not take regions bordering your holdings in southern Arabia, but those coastal regions not bordering your lands in southern Arabia will be free for the taking, as you do not need those as a buffer.

These are demands of a ruling council that has somewhat misunderstood the bargaining position they have.

The Judean Army has been destroyed through its foolish aggression. The entire Judean navy was sunk last year and her economy I would imagine is less than bouyant.

Quite how much strategic benefit the Seleucids can gain (as opposed to the decadence they will gain which will be substantial) in getting tangled up in a protracted war over barren desert is a moot point.

The Judeans perhaps need a reality check.

Alternative offer to Seleucids/Judeans.......

Seleucids and/or Judeans allowed to evict Arabians from any regions of Palaestina Province they hold and then withdraw allowing Egyptian troops to occupy it.

In return Egypt will allow the recapture of Jerusalem by the Judean by declining my to defend it.

Peace will be accepted by all sides once the above measures are concluded and until then neither Judea nor the Seleucids will attack Egyptian forces and Egypt will likewise not attack Judean or Seleucid troops.

Palaestina Province will become Egyptian territory apart from Jerusalem. Syria and Phoenecia Province will return to Judean control and Egypt will not interfere in the recapture of these from Arabia.

Egypt will immediately stop funding Arabia and any other enemies of the Seleucid's provided these terms are complied with.

Judea can expand South and obtain a Red Sea bordering Region not adjacent to Nabatea.

No monetary payments are due in either side.

Egypt awaits a response....

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:24 am Alternative offer to Seleucids/Judeans.......

Seleucids and/or Judeans allowed to evict Arabians from any regions of Palaestina Province they hold and then withdraw allowing Egyptian troops to occupy it.

In return Egypt will allow the recapture of Jerusalem by the Judean by declining my to defend it.

Peace will be accepted by all sides once the above measures are concluded and until then neither Judea nor the Seleucids will attack Egyptian forces and Egypt will likewise not attack Judean or Seleucid troops.

Palaestina Province will become Egyptian territory apart from Jerusalem. Syria and Phoenecia Province will return to Judean control and Egypt will not interfere in the recapture of these from Arabia.

Egypt will immediately stop funding Arabia and any other enemies of the Seleucid's provided these terms are complied with.

Judea can expand South and obtain a Red Sea bordering Region not adjacent to Nabatea.

No monetary payments are due in either side.

Egypt awaits a response....

So, Egypt will take Samaria from Judea.

These terms are acceptable, if Egypt agrees to not place any forces in Samaria or Gaza, not to fortify these regions, and not to raise any troops in these regions.

However, after retaking Samaria from Arabia, Judea will maintain control of Samaria for a grace period of three years before handing it over to Ptolemy.

If these additions are acceptable to Ptolemy, then Judea will accept the deal.

The handover of Jerusalem and Samaria will need to be simultaneous. If you want to wait a further 3 years for Jerusalem that is fine by Egypt and we will wait 3 years for Samaria.

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:57 am The handover of Jerusalem and Samaria will need to be simultaneous. If you want to wait a further 3 years for Jerusalem that is fine by Egypt and we will wait 3 years for Samaria.

Judea accepts.

However, we may change our mind on which turn the trade will happen.

That is excellent news.

Now we wait on the Seleucid reply.