Slitherine

McGuba wrote:As for the next update of this mod I should release it in 1-2 days if all goes well.

Great. Looking forward to it. Here's hoping for clear skies!

Akkula wrote:
I am running 1.23 (Steam), so the game is up to date. Maybe a glitch only for me hardware configuration?

PS: I like you have in consideration the chance to make the ally version of this great map.

So, I have installed the Steam version of PzC to anolther computer, and indeed, in this version the mod crashes after starting any scnenario. After some trial and error I suspect that the problem might be caused by the custom battlefield sound clip that I added to replace the vanilla in-game music. When I removed it from the mod it worked. It might be that the encripting of the mp3 file is not supported by the steam version of PzC (do not ask me why). So, for some reason it seems that the steam version of PzC is not entirely identical with the non-steam version, at least in this regard. The folder structure is also different a bit, and thus the custom intro movie of this mod would not be played in the steam version, unless one moves it to the right folder.

Anyway, for now, as a work-around solution I suggest deleting the "Music" folder from the Battlefield: Europe mod and then disable and reinstall the mod with JSGME. So just go to the "...\Panzer Corps\MODS\Battlefield Europe v1.1\Audio\" folder and delete the Music folder in it. Hopefully this will solve the problem for now. If you have problems doing it or if it does not work please let me know and I will upload a hopefully steam compatible version as soon as I can. With these differencies between the steam and non-steam version I will have to upload two different versions of the mod anyway., just to make things easier.

Wow!, thanks for the quick solution man!. I will try that ASAP.
Anyway, now I am worried about the modding and the steam version, they say that there´s no problem now we got this... I hope this glitch dont raise any problem with the game or account.

You can play Nikivdd's or Bebro's Soviet campaigns - they make both excellent quality mods so I would recommend both.

Akkula wrote:Ok. Did you know if there´s some campaign or big scenario (like this one) out there to play as soviet?. I cannot wait to Soviet Corps

Did you use the JSGME mod enabler?

Akkula wrote:EDIT: The game crahses after the scenario is loaded (any of them) . I followed all the installation steps so I dont know what could it be. Some suggestion?

Uhu wrote:You can play Nikivdd's or Bebro's Soviet campaigns - they make both excellent quality mods so I would recommend both.

Akkula wrote:Ok. Did you know if there´s some campaign or big scenario (like this one) out there to play as soviet?. I cannot wait to Soviet Corps

Did you use the JSGME mod enabler?

Akkula wrote:EDIT: The game crahses after the scenario is loaded (any of them) . I followed all the installation steps so I dont know what could it be. Some suggestion?

I will look for those mods, thanks!.

About the crashes, the solution from McGuba worked beautiful. A good tip for all steam version users.

A new v1.2 is released.

Changes in v1.2

- previous incompatibility with the steam verison of PzC is fixed
- the Atlantic port of St. Nazaire is added and the ports of Brest and Lorient were moved away a bit (as requested by iceFlame)
- several new or modified units added (mainly Italian ones)
- various changes and fixes in scenario 4 and in the equipment file
- some more images added to in-game message boxes

With many thanks to Uhu who gave invaluable feedback and suggestions here and via PM allowing me to fix several issues of the previous version.

Akkula wrote:
About the crashes, the solution from McGuba worked beautiful. A good tip for all steam version users.

With this latest release I found a way to fix the problem. What I did was just resaved the sound file that caused the problem earlier with another codec which seems to work with the Steam version of PzC.

For anyone wishing to upgrade to v1.2 from an earlier version, first you have to disable the earlier version with JSGME and then enable the new one. Note that some of the changes would only apply when you start a new scenario. For example if you are playing scenario 2 and then upgrade to the latest version some changes would only apply when you finish that scenario and start scenario 3. Therefore, if you are already playing the final large scenario you have to reload an earlier scenario or restart the scenario from the campaign selection screen to get all the changes (like new units and stuff).



Finally the scourge of the Atlantic is ready to leave its nest and wreck havoc on the Allied convoys.

McGuba wrote:A new v1.2 is released.

This is great.

I really want to thank you again for all the work you've put into this mod. I think someone commented earlier in the thread that it's more like two or three expansion packs rolled into one, with which I heartily agree.

Now that we've got St. Nazaire and the Condor, I'm going to jump ahead and start playing this new version. I've also got a little mini-mod I just finished for U-boats which is based on ideas from LuftWFJ and guille to try and improve the naval component of the game.

Basically, I wasn't too happy that certain aspects of sub operations (such as silent running, crash dives and deck guns) weren't modeled in the game, so I've tried to emulate them to some degree. Still testing, but so far I'm pleased with the results.

Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble... Thanks again for version 1.2 and especially for enriching the Atlantic theatre of operations. Cheers!

I've also got a little mini-mod I just finished for U-boats which is based on ideas from LuftWFJ and guille to try and improve the naval component of the game.

Basically, I wasn't too happy that certain aspects of sub operations (such as silent running, crash dives and deck guns) weren't modeled in the game, so I've tried to emulate them to some degree. Still testing, but so far I'm pleased with the results.

Please let me know more about your ideas and the progress of your testing. I suspect you made U-boats multipurpose - I was thinking about it as well. In Pacific General submarines had two modes: submerged and surfaced mode and it could be easily implemented in PzC as well. I can imagine that in surfaced mode U-boats would be in effect destroyers or capital ships, could move at least two times faster, use deck guns, but would be much more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Maybe their spotting would be a bit lower when submerged, however, when submerged they could use passive sonar to detect convoys beyound visual range so it could be just as high or even higher.

My main concern though, with such multipurpose units is the AI's limited ability using these. If only the human player is capable of using multipurpose submarines effectively than it would unbanlance the game against the AI.

Uhu had a great idea regarding submarines - currently they have a 50% chance to evade an attack if I am right, but it is not a very sophisticated approach. I remember in PG there was the same simple rule when it came to evasion and it was just taken over to PzC. Uhu suggested that it could be lowered to 25% in the first attack of a turn and then this chance would get higher and higher in any subsequent attacks in the same turn. Obviously this thing is hard coded and only the developer(s) of the game could change it like that. Historically a successful evasion depended on many different factors besides pure luck: skill, experience, the number of enemy destroyers, weather, the existance of Metox or other early radar warning systems, BOLD, thermal layers, etc. etc. It would be nice to implement at least some of these into the equation instead of the rough 50% rule which really ruins this aspect of the game. However, since PzC is mainly about ground war it might be an unrealistic expectation and the devs would probaly say do not change it as it would easily unbalance the existing campaigns.

Still I am waiting for your test results and impressions. If they do not unbalance the game too badly they might find their way into a later version of this mod.

McGuba wrote:... into a later version of this mod.

How many versions do you plan to make!? I can barely finish off WWI (after the completion of the last scenario) in the time it takes you to update a mod. I'm guessing this is all of your spare time . (Good job if you have other spare time then - all mine is lost to WWI and/or the Wii U and Making History The Great War)

Kaiserschlacht releases tomorrow, so prepare to lose a few players to THE AWESOMENESS OF STORMTROOPERS AND POISON GAS!!!

Now for an interesting question: What do you do after v1.9?

- BNC

As long as I get sensible suggestions which I can implement in some way or another I will continue to make updates time after time. However, with the spring arriving to Europe I will spend more of my free time out in the open which means less time for PzC.

Kaiserschlacht releases tomorrow, so prepare to lose a few players to THE AWESOMENESS OF STORMTROOPERS AND POISON GAS!!!

Think it is time to distribute some gas masks and hazmat suits then.

Now for an interesting question: What do you do after v1.9?

Guess what: v2.0

I think I'm in between these mods (I'd still like a hazmat suit)

McGuba wrote:Please let me know more about your ideas and the progress of your testing. I suspect you made U-boats multipurpose - I was thinking about it as well. In Pacific General submarines had two modes: submerged and surfaced mode and it could be easily implemented in PzC as well.

Yeah, you actually summed it up very well. I decided to go with three modes, surfaced, submerged (periscope depth) and crash dive (followed by silent running: a.k.a run-silent-run-deep). So I'm using three different icons for the switch.

You already touched on most of the differences in stats, so I'll just mention that the vulnerability on the surface is greatest (especially to planes), whereas the loss of visual contact adds a measure of extra defense at periscope depth. Then you've got the thermal layer and sheer depth adding maximum protection at near-crush depth.

The trade-offs of course are that you can't attack below periscope depth, so that mode is mostly useful if you're badly damaged or badly outnumbered (or both)! Speed is another trade-off, as the boat is dead slow in silent running whereas it's a little quicker while running on electrics (submerged) and fastest on diesels (surfaced).

Other factors include +1 to attack while surfaced to account for the deck gun, plus a token -1 to air defense for the turm flak. Then of course there's the increased spotting (due to hydrophones) at periscope depth. And probably a few other adjustments that I've already forgotten!

But yeah, the tests seemed to go well as the boats are still subject to damage even in silent running (but not as ridiculous as before where even fighters could damage them with strafing runs). So a determined (heavy) attack can still finish them off, but IMO it's much more realistic this way.

Aside from the technical stuff, I'm finding it's making sub operations a lot more fun. This way I almost feel like a Kapitan zur See as I choose to maneuver my boat based on the strategic situation.

For example, I especially like being able to simulate risky surface attacks (with maximum firepower). Is the prospect of a quick kill worth the potential damage, or should we play it safe? If it's a lone isolated merchant, flank speed!

Should I download the new version or a patch for the 1.1 version? Is the downloadable file at the beginning of the thread? thanks

Here's a couple of screens:





I also added the switch symbol to the icons and the sound for the flak gun. In the first screen, both subs were attacked by fighters while running deep. So I think a one point loss is pretty fair. The enhanced defense values are drawn from destroyers (submerged) and battleships (silent/deep) respectively. I've kept the ratings as close to vanilla as possible, (so as not to create uber units), with just slight adjustments in key areas.

And here's the beta version of the mod:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pn6te ... +v0.9b.rar

It's fully self contained (with vanilla equipment and sound files) so all you have to do is enable it with GME and then load a vanilla scenario like Sealion. For testing purposes, I made the U-boat purchasable under 'recon'. Let me know what you think and have fun!

Edit: Also for testing, I left the flak gun fully operational, (not just passive), so you can currently attack with it. Would recommend passive mode for the final version though.

And the "evade" chance is still existing? Because, if yes, than I would think, it would be to easy. Active AA should be certainly removed.

iceFlame wrote:

McGuba wrote:Please let me know more about your ideas and the progress of your testing. I suspect you made U-boats multipurpose - I was thinking about it as well. In Pacific General submarines had two modes: submerged and surfaced mode and it could be easily implemented in PzC as well.

Yeah, you actually summed it up very well. I decided to go with three modes, surfaced, submerged (periscope depth) and crash dive (followed by silent running: a.k.a run-silent-run-deep). So I'm using three different icons for the switch.

You already touched on most of the differences in stats, so I'll just mention that the vulnerability on the surface is greatest (especially to planes), whereas the loss of visual contact adds a measure of extra defense at periscope depth. Then you've got the thermal layer and sheer depth adding maximum protection at near-crush depth.

The trade-offs of course are that you can't attack below periscope depth, so that mode is mostly useful if you're badly damaged or badly outnumbered (or both)! Speed is another trade-off, as the boat is dead slow in silent running whereas it's a little quicker while running on electrics (submerged) and fastest on diesels (surfaced).

Other factors include +1 to attack while surfaced to account for the deck gun, plus a token -1 to air defense for the turm flak. Then of course there's the increased spotting (due to hydrophones) at periscope depth. And probably a few other adjustments that I've already forgotten!

But yeah, the tests seemed to go well as the boats are still subject to damage even in silent running (but not as ridiculous as before where even fighters could damage them with strafing runs). So a determined (heavy) attack can still finish them off, but IMO it's much more realistic this way.

Aside from the technical stuff, I'm finding it's making sub operations a lot more fun. This way I almost feel like a Kapitan zur See as I choose to maneuver my boat based on the strategic situation.

For example, I especially like being able to simulate risky surface attacks (with maximum firepower). Is the prospect of a quick kill worth the potential damage, or should we play it safe? If it's a lone isolated merchant, flank speed!

Just one thing I noticed (in v1.0, it may have already been done): Hex (151,28) is labelled as "Samara". The name for this city was Kuybyshev at the time. No big deal tho

- BNC

demyansk
Should I download the new version or a patch for the 1.1 version? Is the downloadable file at the beginning of the thread? thanks

I do not make patches (out of the fear of mixing up things) so you have to download the full new version. The latest version is always at the first page of this topic. To install, first you have to disable the earlier version with JSGME and then enable the newer version.



iceFlame:

Thank you for sharing the U-boat min-mod.

So I ran a test in the vanilla Norway scenario. I just added some more subs for both Axis and Allies.

I quickly realized that giving recon class to a dived sub is not a good idea, even for testing as it made the following funny event possible:



'Crash dived' Axis sub can attack 'Periscope depth' Allied sub. Predicted result: Axis loses 9, Allied loses 0...


I found the 'Crash dived' sub icon a bit strange, to be honest. Maybe over time I could get used to it, but would not it be better to make the icon image completely empty / blank? After all it is so deep that it could not be seen from the surface at all. It would also add to the drama that you feel you are fighting an unseen enemy.

'Submerged' U-boat icon should be a bit lowered.

Naval brawl at the Norwegian coasts with the different submarine modes:




I would make bigger difference between the movement speed of submerged and surfaced U-boats. U-boats had about two times higher cruise and max speed
when surfaced. It would make surfaced mode a risky, but effective way for travelling long distancies or to escape from the chasing destroyers.

By the way, it might be a good idea to make corvettes and frigates as well with somewhat lower stats and smaller icon.

I suggest moving surfaced U-boats into the capital ship class class with firing range = 2. This way these could attack hapless merchants from a distance. It would also make sub-vs-sub engagements possible. Historically quite a lot of subs were sunk by other subs while they were travelling on the surface. Only question is whether the AI would ever surface its subs at all?

EDIT: Actually it does! The only problem is that it happened at the worst possible moment... in the middle of surface engagment... But then in the next turn it dived deep! (Good boy. Or, maybe the AI is so smart that it just wanted to confuse me. And it seems that it managed to do so. )

Maybe 'Dived' U-boat could be tested with the "camo" trait added (unit is hard to spot, like a minefield).

UPDATE: actually the AI seems to use these triple-action submarines. Not very effectively, but at least it changes class now and then, and does not stick to only one (I was testing with capital ship - submarine - submarine classes). However, its favourite class seems to be the middle one (periscope depth), which is quite reasonable. So I have started to like this mod.

Implementing it to the Battlefield: Europe mod would have the some problem, though. Currently if the player brings capital ships (battleships or cruisers) to the convoy zone it triggers an Allied response that they would spawn their own capital ships there as well. Now if we have a surfaced submarine with capital ship class in the convoy zone it would trigger the same event which is not desirable. So I tested it with recon class for the 'Surfaced' U-boat, but the AI does not seem to use it as well as if it was in the capital ship class. Maybe there could be two types of U-boats one for the human player (with recon class in surfaced mode) and one for the AI (with capital ship class in surfaced mode). Anyway, it has to be tested thoroughly, but I like it so far.

Uhu wrote:
And the "evade" chance is still existing?

It is a built-in feature of the submarine class only. That's why I think surfaced U-boats should be moved to another class so that these do not have it. If a U-boat is caught on the surface it is doomed.

BNC wrote:
Just one thing I noticed (in v1.0, it may have already been done): Hex (151,28) is labelled as "Samara". The name for this city was Kuybyshev at the time. No big deal tho

On the contrary, I think it is quite important to have the proper historical city names. Imagine what would people think is Stalingrad would be named Volgograd, as it is called today.

I tried to use historical city names in most cases e.g. today's Donetsk was called Stalino in WWII, but I could not correct all, so thanks for reporting it, I will fix it. There might be some other erroneous citiy names, though.

McGuba wrote:

BNC wrote:
Just one thing I noticed (in v1.0, it may have already been done): Hex (151,28) is labelled as "Samara". The name for this city was Kuybyshev at the time. No big deal tho

On the contrary, I think it is quite important to have the proper historical city names. Imagine what would people think is Stalingrad would be named Volgograd, as it is called today.

I tried to use historical city names in most cases e.g. today's Donetsk was called Stalino in WWII, but I could not correct all, so thanks for reporting it, I will fix it. There might be some other erroneous citiy names, though.

If I see any more, I'll let you know.

- BNC

McGuba wrote:iceFlame:

Thank you for sharing the U-boat min-mod.

You're welcome. I knew you'd have some really good ideas and perspectives so I was happy to share. Thanks for being interested and taking the time to look at it. (That way maybe we can get it to the next level).

So I ran a test in the vanilla Norway scenario. I just added some more subs for both Axis and Allies.

I quickly realized that giving recon class to a dived sub is not a good idea, even for testing as it made the following funny event possible:



'Crash dived' Axis sub can attack 'Periscope depth' Allied sub. Predicted result: Axis loses 9, Allied loses 0...

That is funny. I have to admit I never tested that, so another set of (experienced) eyes certainly helps.

I found the 'Crash dived' sub icon a bit strange, to be honest. Maybe over time I could get used to it, but would not it be better to make the icon image completely empty / blank? After all it is so deep that it could not be seen from the surface at all. It would also add to the drama that you feel you are fighting an unseen enemy.

'Submerged' U-boat icon should be a bit lowered.

Yeah, you might be right about the blank icon. I was mostly thinking the icon represented the start of the crash dive, but maybe that's logically inconsistent since it already has all the defensive bonuses of being near crush depth. So I agree that it wouldn't be visible, and I do like the heightened drama concept. It's just the totally blank icon looks a little strange, at least the first time you look at it. But maybe I'll get used to it. Unless we think of something else.

And lowering the submerged icon sounds good. Also, I was thinking maybe we could try adding a periscope to the submerged icon. Just to see how it looks.

I would make bigger difference between the movement speed of submerged and surfaced U-boats. U-boats had about two times higher cruise and max speed
when surfaced. It would make surfaced mode a risky, but effective way for travelling long distancies or to escape from the chasing destroyers.

I thought about doing that, (as you're quite correct about double the surfaced cruise speed), its just I was concerned about how much it might effect game balance, so I kept it closer to vanilla stats. If the testing goes okay, I think it'd be great to go with the realistic values, just so long as the engine can handle it. But I do like the risk element.

I suggest moving surfaced U-boats into the capital ship class class with firing range = 2. This way these could attack hapless merchants from a distance. It would also make sub-vs-sub engagements possible.

Wonderful idea. This would make the deck gun a real factor in the game. Love it.

Maybe 'Dived' U-boat could be tested with the "camo" trait added (unit is hard to spot, like a minefield).

Yes. Another good idea. Thanks for all the input.

UPDATE: actually the AI seems to use these triple-action submarines. Not very effectively, but at least it changes class now and then, and does not stick to only one (I was testing with capital ship - submarine - submarine classes). However, its favourite class seems to be the middle one (periscope depth), which is quite reasonable. So I have started to like this mod.

Glad to hear it. I really do think the triple switch will make U-boat operations a lot more fun. It adds a whole new 3D dimension to the game. Now we've got actual depth!

Implementing it to the Battlefield: Europe mod would have the some problem, though. Currently if the player brings capital ships (battleships or cruisers) to the convoy zone it triggers an Allied response that they would spawn their own capital ships there as well. Now if we have a surfaced submarine with capital ship class in the convoy zone it would trigger the same event which is not desirable. So I tested it with recon class for the 'Surfaced' U-boat, but the AI does not seem to use it as well as if it was in the capital ship class. Maybe there could be two types of U-boats one for the human player (with recon class in surfaced mode) and one for the AI (with capital ship class in surfaced mode). Anyway, it has to be tested thoroughly, but I like it so far.

Sounds like a plausible work-around. If testing goes well, I'd be delighted to see this included in Battlefield Europe. The Kapitan in me would be very happy.

Very well done, chaps! That "triple switch" unit adds a lot of new possibiliries to the naval aspect of the game! I like all your ideas!
Also, I agree with adding a periscope to the submerged mode sub... Thumbs up!