Slitherine

Robotron wrote: @nehi: can you remember the actions you took in your last turn? Did you move fleets? If so, where? Did you run into any of Zombo's submarines (if any)?

@both: please elaborate about your state of game since I can't check the savegame. Where are the fronts, where are you fighting?

east front was broken, russia shattered, like 7 collapse points, i was just buying some more time, brest litovsk wes surrounded, in last turn zombo have taken ivangorod, i placed just few new corpses around kiev and kishinev and vitebsk

rest of my new reborning russia after supply crisis wes holding pskov, polotsk - down there kiev, kishinev, odessa, zombo just surrounded swamps and was heading to kiev and petrograd

serbs were backstabed by bulgaria, holding belgrade, cetinje, kraljevo, rest were seized except tirana, but it was free and zombo just reached it by army (if i made some mistake, i havent transport any foreign unit in serbia, just that russian corpse from event)

italian front was new but stabilized, after i got trieste, just switched lowered cavalry with corpse to 2nd line nearby trento

west front was stalemate until my last turn, in 20 turns before i advanced just to one german hex, connected to metz and strassburg, in my last turn i got metz

i havent moved many ships last turn, it wasnt there any action for them... navy splitted in like 2 halfs, north sea deadly one to surface ships, mediterranean deadly to subs i moved few destroyers there, light cruisers or whatever are that junk i used to disband all the time in vanilla

i sunk all zombo surface ships there ages ago while he was trying to save goeben, he could flee with some but one turn he forgot to move, its prize was austrian battleship and finishing old dread, goeben was doomed as main target (ottomans were out of war in turn 25 with counter 9-11), just one light cruiser survived and sunken later nearby split when italy joined

holding north sea blockade, no move

some moves in that throat to adriatic, i sent one sub to refresh in port and filled hole in blockade, moved one sub in adriatic to cover battleship which was few turns stayin nearby split and waiting if it raises production to nulify it again

nearby cattaro i left sub so i can move there to nulify its production as in split (0 production at that moment and refreshing navy)

events i remember, food crisis for germany, that cp spy success over entente, i picked up abadan oil fields, metz conquered event, portugal joined entente

Okay, great, thanks.

Since the replay crashes at the very start...what do you think were you FIRST moves that turn?

Robotron wrote:Okay, great, thanks.

Since the replay crashes at the very start...what do you think were you FIRST moves that turn?

i have thrown all at metz, thats simple, british elite fighter tactical bombing metz and countered by fighter of zombo
(but we used to shoot like that few turns before allready, dog fight happened few turns ago too)

i suspect messagebox is breaking mp replay, as i havent seen any so far and single is pretty stable

I must ask this to be able to get the bug: how much INTEL did you use and on what CP nation?

no one, thats why i was asking zombo

i just influenced bulgaria and romania while neutral, entente had just few diplo points, in some turns i couldnt even make any action - he has to spent diplo points in intel then i guess
(its quite imba if its so, germans have less events to choose from - especially while ottomans are out of the war, they can spent diplo points in somewhere else, when its generating more diplo points and lowering ententes, its like a perpetuum mobile)

but bulgaria joined 2 turns ago and romania was still out of the war
(king died, but zombo used that cede event to reverse its inclination, it was huge, like down to 10-12)

Okayyyy....

I suspect that zombo has invested in INTEL and a messagebox appeared at the start of his replay which caused the crash...I will therefore move all INTEL events from the start of a player's PHASE to the start of the game TURN.

Winter is already switched off from happening randomly, so that can't be the cause of the crash.

You say you did not move fleets at the start of the turn, so the "sea mines" event did not sink any of your fleets which might have confused the replay.

There IS however a strange hiccup with the date between turn 24 to 25 where the month stays at october (should be november), quite possibly the replay does not like having the same month twice in a row either.

Robotron wrote:Okayyyy....

but rethink that intel behaviour

at least i prefer warfare over spying, it should be spice not the main meal in my opinion

No cause for concern, INTEL does not do wonders, but might rather be a nasty surprise sometimes. Since you are never sure WHEN and HOW it occurs you won't be able to build a whole strategy on INTEL.

Robotron wrote:No cause for concern, INTEL does not do wonders, but might rather be a nasty surprise sometimes. Since you are never sure WHEN and HOW it occurs you won't be able to build a whole strategy on INTEL.

INTEL will raise your chance to perform spy/sabotage missions on enemy nations with a % chance of INTEL points spent IF your alliance has SIGINT superiority ("enemy code broken").
Else "cipher unknown" will be displayed.
If the enemy has broken your own code then "cipher broken" will be displayed.
Else "cipher is safe" will be displayed.
You will gain bonus diplo points if your alliance has spent the most overall INTEL.
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but entente are under pressure, have less points and need to choose events for surviving

cp have more points - i guess in ruprecht at least, less of reasonable events and then intel generates even more diplo points? (whats the difference exactly?) i feel disbalance in it

maybe its better i dont know what spy and sabotage missions do

I confess to using INTEL at least twice on Russia ( at least that's what I remember)

I somewhat agree with Nehi here, from playing both sides I remember the Entente to be a lot more constrained in terms of diplo/political points (I still prefer calling them strategy point ), maybe somewhat unduly

hello robotron,

my first post and firstly an enormous thank you for taking the time time and putting in the effort to make an interesting but limited game fascinating ! Although I must say it's becoming addictive:)
below is a zip file for my latest glitch and it would be cool not to lose my saved game as it is at a crucial point (aren't they always!)
I can't end the turn without it crashing:)

My good friend Zombo introduced me to it and when I've got a bit more used to the changes I'll consider a multiplayer game. I have a few problems understanding stuff as it's quite trial and error with some elements and the diplomacy, transfer choices are confusing although <i've just noticed some explanations on this forum . If you don't make a dipmlomacy choice you seem to lose the points completely and I don't really know what to do when cipher is broken. counter intel I presume?

My biggets two problems are probably because I play the Entente and I find the sea mines unbearable! 50% damage to British shipping in the channel is laughable ,especially when the Germans have no ships left and sporadic sub activity only!

The other one is connected to the old game I think and it concerns the striking power of Libyan irregulars and Egyptian revolutionaries who come hurtling out of the desert with the striking power of several Panzer divisions under Guderian in 1940:))

The solution of cours eis to stock up in the middle East and prevent it happening but still... I do understand in a way as the Allies really have all the advantages but still!!!

Apart from that, wonderful and a real thank you again for doing what must be a labour of love for very little return,

looking forward to more interesting games, john

The other one is connected to the old game I think and it concerns the striking power of Libyan irregulars and Egyptian revolutionaries who come hurtling out of the desert with the striking power of several Panzer divisions under Guderian in 1940:))

definitely no longer the case

Regarding Sea mines, I confess I find them a little (a lot) too devastating in their effect. A 1-2 points damage (exceptionally 3-4 for a capital ship) seems plenty to me.

jkehoe wrote:If you don't make a dipmlomacy choice you seem to lose the points completely

yeah, yeah, im calling it a daylight robbery

ive tried one more ai game, me cp, russians have got like 15 armies in turn 10, easily broken my weak line of defense, no toughts about invading poland, there were just no way for it, lost przemysl (ive tried to hide there 7/10 corpse with eff 6, frontal attacks of cavalry+2armies and mighty przemysl was just history - russia was like on steroids, got tarnopol in initial turn and made two breaches both when single army was attacking trenched corpse) and krakow, fortunately ai is a bit desoriented in open space, so ive hold them there until ottomans front opened and franced was finished, then ai has fallen back (but it was like 3 hexes from vienna and no units in its way whole the time)

italy was out of the war whole the time.. so no proof for cumulating collapse points

sometimes its crashing at end of turn randomly, usually working after reload or two reloads

[14:42:26][2356]DODIPLOEVENTS
[14:42:26][2356]AI EVENTLIST TOTAL NUMBER:12
[14:42:26][2356]INF/INTEL REASON 4: RANDOM 1 in 6 in 1915+
[14:42:26][2356]XTREVNT PLAYED!
[14:42:26][2356]AI PLAYS EVENT:MPBonus2
[14:42:26][2356]game/game_diplomacy.lua:4128(global TriggerEvent) game/game_diplomacy.lua:4128: attempt to index local 'faction' (a nil value)

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[17:41:15][3248]DODIPLOEVENTS
[17:41:15][3248]AI EVENTLIST TOTAL NUMBER:16
[17:41:15][3248]INF/INTEL REASON 4: RANDOM 1 in 6 in 1915+
[17:41:15][3248]XTREVNT PLAYED!
[17:41:15][3248]AI PLAYS EVENT:MoraleBonus2
[17:41:15][3248]game/game_diplomacy.lua:4115(global TriggerEvent) game/game_diplomacy.lua:4115: attempt to index local 'faction' (a nil value)

i caught it more times, but it looked the same all the time

Goeben update!

I just verified, the Goeben started the war in the AH port of Pola, in the Adriatic!

Zombo wrote:Goeben update!

while we are talking about goeben, im just curious, why sometimes ottomans close dardanels and sometimes accept it

@jkehoe: welcome aboard and thanks for the bug report which was easily fixable due to the logfile being included. I'll upload a new scriptfix later this day.

@nehi: fortunately the SP bug you reported has the same cause as the one reported by jkehoe. About Russia steamrolling you: did the "Russian Surprise Attack" event trigger before?


About the Dardanelles thing:

- if the Entente player chooses to play the "DELIVER BRITISH DREADNOUGHTS" event, then the Dardanelles will automatically be closed if the Goeben arrives at an Turkish port. In SP when playing Entente, the Goeben will then automatically spawn at an Austrian port IF the AI decides to send the Goeben to the Med.
- the Dardanelles may also randomly close BEFORE the Goeben arrives with a (game turn number multiplied by 2) % chance per turn once Russia has entered the war.
- the Dardanelles will automatically close if the Goeben is sent to the Pacific instead of the Western Med once Russia has joined Entente

@Zombo: SP or MP? Which side are you playing? Did the Goeben actually appear on turn#1 right at game start?

@about the constant replay crash bug in the Zombo/nehi's MP match: I fear the new replay crash is caused by the many changes made between the point of time when you started your match and the last update. I fear some variables I meddled with during that time are not compatible anymore. So, as anticlimatic as it may sound, I fear you'll have to abandon that game and start a new one with the upcoming V7.80. Sorry about that.

Robotron wrote: @nehi: fortunately the SP bug you reported has the same cause as the one reported by jkehoe. About Russia steamrolling you: did the "Russian Surprise Attack" event trigger before?

dont think so, austrian units where digged in as usual, but got hammered in first turn just by single attack - twice vs corpses in corner spots both neighbouring to przemysl, plus few turns later russia has got like twice more armies as used to (14 visible counted in turn 10), krakow was its prize

russia was attacking like mad even during winter, but no crisis? its just case for humans?

Robotron wrote: @Zombo: SP or MP? Which side are you playing? Did the Goeben actually appear on turn#1 right at game start?

i guess he meant it historically...

@nehi: the only changes I made to the Russian setup was to include one additional armoured train near Riga and exchanging the two garrisons in Ossovice and Novogeorgievsk for Reserve Corps.
I suppose then that "Full Russian mobilization" was chosen by the AI which grants extra PP and delays the Russian Supply Crisis.

@Zombo & jkehoe: chances to run into mines and the amount of damaged can be reduced by providing escorts like light cruisers, fighters and zeppelins.
If the target square is within the LOS of said units then both chance and damage for sea mines will be halved for each unit providing escort.
Alternatively commanders assigned to capital ships will drastically reduce the chance even further.
If the North Sea Blockade is in effect the chance will be further reduced.
The basic % chance will usually in the 5 to 10 % range and will be halved if a sea mine event was already triggered the same turn.
I will lower the damage somewhat but during playtesting I found that even 2 escorts usually reduce the damage done to nil.

@Zombo about historical Goeben: to my knowledge the Goeben tried to bombard Algerian ports when war broke out between France and Germany and so the point where it spawns (or better where it becomes active) seems to be quite correct, at least to me.

Robotron wrote: @Zombo about historical Goeben: to my knowledge the Goeben tried to bombard Algerian ports when war broke out between France and Germany and so the point where it spawns seems to be quite correct, at least to me.

i think the same, its not important where it was at start of the war (until now i tought it was operating from italian messina), but where it was seen when pursuit began

just order where to go dardanelles or austria, should reflect ottomans status, its quite deadly to go there when they wont accept it

@nehi: Well, it's a slight gamble. Now that I pretty much spoilered the event for you I'm sure you will make the right decision in the future.