Slitherine

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:48 am**

TURN 91:
After losing 3 transports in the sea ( allied heavy bombers started to spam as well )in the previous turn, I lost my last remaining 1% chance for a Total Victory.
Still, considering the fact this time I NEVER reloaded/replayed a turn or "cheated "any other way, even I am a little bit sad, but still proud.
Probably not only London, but Birmingham will be under allied control as well, and I would need 7-8 more extra turns not 3-4.

If I don t waste all my Panthers, Tiger, Elephant, and Stugs to stay in Normandy from turn 75 to 90 and prevent Allied landing but send those to UK instead....would have been a better decision, it was a strategic mistake.
I just didn t want the Allies to have a beach/foothold at all. But still, now I am 99% sure that would not change the overall situation, I mean I needed 3-4 more turns for a TW instead of 7-8.

Nevertheless, it was a stunning gameplay I enjoyed every minute, I think it took me around nearly 300 hours. I only spent so much time with Witcher 3

I thought about trying to replay from turn 72, and maybe....but it would be a cheat I think. So I will play 2.3 or 2.4 instead from the begining, and do the Sealion in late 42. So TW should be mine, finally in my 4. playthrough

But for now, I must take a pause

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:06 am**

Well done

you deserve a pause from operations, it is exciting to see all this different action from players.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:06 am**

Next time play 2.3 and you should start from Poland

, you get more prestige, more fun, and five core units with experience and heroes.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:19 am**

Marginaldefe , at At what difficulty level did you play and was the fog of War disabled initially as well as refueling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegspiel_(chess)

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:19 am**

faos333 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:06 am Next time play 2.3 and you should start from Poland , you get more prestige, more fun, and five core units with experience and heroes.

I started from Poland, and generated 1000 extra prestige and had 1Stuka 2BF 109 and 2 PZ4 F

I think otherwise you had 0 chance for TW if you play with these settings ( Realistic + FM and Dice Chess ). Obviously, i will finish the game anyway. And maybe this picture is better, here is the situation in the UK. I have a good foothold, and air superiority (but not supremacy) just too little, too late. I have no idea how to spend my prestige too, because first time ( except the first 15 turns) I finally have some reserve to spend.

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:50 am**

uzbek2012 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:19 am Marginaldefe , at At what difficulty level did you play and was the fog of War disabled initially as well as refueling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegspiel_(chess)

I think I answered your question with my next post

Hardest diff in everything, except it could be Rommel instead of FM. I think total victory would be still possible, but....it s more important for me to enjoy the play a bit with a hard challenge, so I think I will never try, because playing at Rommel diff is everything but fun I guess

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:35 pm**

Summary: I said overall I enjoyed the campaign a lot, however, I felt one thing very very unfair and not understandable. We have 3 air transport 10 rail transport and 8 naval transport opportunity in the begining. BUT and this is a big BUT : I just have realized once I lose a naval transport unit, the MAXIMUM number of transport PERMANENTLY decreases by ONE. Just WHY ??????
I don t only ask it just because that was the only reason I didn t earn Total Victory, only Marginal. Btw, only London didn t fall. But I started Sealion only with 6 transport opportunity instead of 8, and then in one turn I lost 3 transport unit, so in the last 10 turn I was able to use only THREE transports....

If I could have used 6, I would earn a TOTAL victory easily. But once again, I don t ask it only because that was the reason I failed by a very small margim, but because it s unlogical.
I mean...with a same logic, if you lose one air transport and one train then why the maximum number of train and air transfer capaticy does not decrease by one ?
And what is the point of this and the logic is behind this ?

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:18 pm**

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:35 pm Summary: I said overall I enjoyed the campaign a lot, however, I felt one thing very very unfair and not understandable. We have 3 air transport 10 rail transport and 8 naval transport opportunity in the begining. BUT and this is a big BUT : I just have realized once I lose a naval transport unit, the MAXIMUM number of transport PERMANENTLY decreases by ONE. Just WHY ??????
I don t only ask it just because that was the only reason I didn t earn Total Victory, only Marginal. Btw, only London didn t fall. But I started Sealion only with 6 transport opportunity instead of 8, and then in one turn I lost 3 transport unit, so in the last 10 turn I was able to use only THREE transports....

If I could have used 6, I would earn a TOTAL victory easily. But once again, I don t ask it only because that was the reason I failed by a very small margim, but because it s unlogical.
I mean...with a same logic, if you lose one air transport and one train then why the maximum number of train and air transfer capaticy does not decrease by one ?
And what is the point of this and the logic is behind this ?

I think is logical to have limited transports, the scarcity of them was a usual thing for axis, during the war.

If only you could have seen the Logistics tips video that explains number of transports and danger of losing them

https://youtu.be/Ol-COZVKrSs

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:33 pm**

faos333 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:18 pm
Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:35 pm Summary: I said overall I enjoyed the campaign a lot, however, I felt one thing very very unfair and not understandable. We have 3 air transport 10 rail transport and 8 naval transport opportunity in the begining. BUT and this is a big BUT : I just have realized once I lose a naval transport unit, the MAXIMUM number of transport PERMANENTLY decreases by ONE. Just WHY ??????
I don t only ask it just because that was the only reason I didn t earn Total Victory, only Marginal. Btw, only London didn t fall. But I started Sealion only with 6 transport opportunity instead of 8, and then in one turn I lost 3 transport unit, so in the last 10 turn I was able to use only THREE transports....

If I could have used 6, I would earn a TOTAL victory easily. But once again, I don t ask it only because that was the reason I failed by a very small margim, but because it s unlogical.
I mean...with a same logic, if you lose one air transport and one train then why the maximum number of train and air transfer capaticy does not decrease by one ?
And what is the point of this and the logic is behind this ?
I think is logical to have limited transports, the scarcity of them was a usual thing for axis, during the war.

If only you could have seen the Logistics tips video that explains number of transports and danger of losing them
https://youtu.be/Ol-COZVKrSs

Unfortunately I saw nearly all videos and used to wrote whole library but I missed that:) And I see I was wrong air transport loss is permanent too, thanks

Well... I think I will reload then just a few turn, because I didn t know that and as far as I know it was not mentioned in library. So back to turn 86 from turn 91

I think it s fair and acceptable, especially because I ran into another bug ( or feature? ) because the game suggested that from turn 25 I ll be able to upgrade 3 BF-109 units to FW 190 for 200 prestige. And I was allowed to upgrade only 2, not 3. ( It was the same in all my 3 playthrough) I got a free FW A2 prototype, and then I was able to upgrade only 2, not 3.... I tried several times, with different BF 109 units from turn 35 till 45, but nothing happened

Posted: **Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:06 pm**

That is fine with me, replaying turns is ok

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:46 am**

uzbek2012 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:14 pm Author tell me are you planning to make a cash cow for submarines or will you have to drive to the base for torpedoes and fuel ?
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/id/5bb492c1 ... 146a2544a5
https://reibert.info/threads/dojnye-kor ... ca.220883/

In case you mean the so-called "milk cows", i.e. u-boats tasked with replenishing other u-boats with fuel and (a limited amount of) torpedoes, I do not plan to add these to the mod. In reality there were few such boats and their main role was to assure that u-boats could reach areas like the US coastal waters or the Far East, areas which are outside of the map of the mod. U-boats which were acitve in the North Atlantic convoy routes, which is the main area of action in the mod, rarerly used these milk cows. Besides, I could only add them with fixed AI zones which would be known and thus in multiplayer games the Allied player could easily clear these areas of any milk cows making this game mechanic useless.

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:48 am I will play 2.3 or 2.4 instead from the begining, and do the Sealion in late 42. So TW should be mine, finally in my 4. playthrough
But for now, I must take a pause

I do not plan to release v2.4 in the near future, I did not even touch the mod since the release of v2.3 so I guess it will remain the latest version for quite a while.

Note that 2.3 is slightly harder than 2.2 as there will be 2 extra US armoured units spawning in Britain after mid/late 43, but only if no victory objective city has been captured by that time in the UK. So it makes sense invading the UK earlier to avoid this and late '42 sounds like a good idea.

And also the British objective cities in the back like Liverpool will be better guarded as in v2.2 and the earlier versions the AI tends to move the infantry out of these cities at some point leaving them undefended, but in v2.3 these units will be "frozen" (out of fuel) to prevent it. (In your latest screenshot Liverpool is held by a naval unit but in v2.3 it should be held by infantry at all times.)

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:50 am I think I answered your question with my next post Hardest diff in everything, except it could be Rommel instead of FM. I think total victory would be still possible, but....it s more important for me to enjoy the play a bit with a hard challenge, so I think I will never try, because playing at Rommel diff is everything but fun I guess

I believe FM is harder than Rommel in this mod. In FM most Axis units start June 1941 with one less experience star making them much less effective, and also the speed of experience gain is halved. Whereas in Rommel Axis units start the scenario with full experience making them much more effective. So FM starts harder and the first year is very important. On the other hand Rommel of course gives half the prestige, but FM also requires the player to use more prestige to make sure he has at least a number of experienced units which means more elite replacements being used.

But FM is not just harder but also more realistic as the weaker Axis units compensate for the AI not using certain game mechanics like recon move or mass attack and thus results in a more balanced game. However, of course it is much harder to achieve a victory in FM and I am not sure if it is possible to achieve a total victory without reloads.

I just have realized once I lose a naval transport unit, the MAXIMUM number of transport PERMANENTLY decreases by ONE. Just WHY ??????

...with a same logic, if you lose one air transport and one train then why the maximum number of train and air transfer capaticy does not decrease by one ?
And what is the point of this and the logic is behind this ?

Obviously all of these transport losses are permanent and not just naval transports. It is a hard coded game mechanic of the base game and not an added feature of this mod. In the game Panzer Corps these train, sea and air transports cannot be added during a scenario nor can be made available for purchase. Their number can only be determined in the editor for the beginning of the scenario and this number can only go down due to losses. (By the way it was the same in the original Panzer General so it is like that since 1994.

So I guess the only "logic" behind this is that it was the same in Panzer General.)

I didn t know that and as far as I know it was not mentioned in library.

In fact it is mentioned in the library in the "HINTS & TIPS" section:

: sample2301.jpg (167.15 KiB) Viewed 2830 times

I added it to"HINTS & TIPS" section of the library and not the "CHANGES" section because it is not a game feature changed by the mod but a default hard coded feature of the base game.

And it is also mentioned in the very first message box:

: sample2302.jpg (156.63 KiB) Viewed 2830 times

But I know that despite all these a lot of players are still unaware of this and that's why the videos made by faos333 are extremely useful and important to explain these and other game mechanics.

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:53 am**

McGuba wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:46 am And it is also mentioned in the very first message box:
sample2302.jpg

Do you think is possible to invade UK with a Sea Lion late 41? in the current 2.3 version?
It is tempting idea since you face less mines during the first winter near the cost south west of London.
Are they any players tried it?

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:26 pm**

McGuba wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:46 am
Obviously all of these transport losses are permanent and not just naval transports. It is a hard coded game mechanic of the base game and not an added feature of this mod. In the game Panzer Corps these train, sea and air transports cannot be added during a scenario nor can be made available for purchase. Their number can only be determined in the editor for the beginning of the scenario and this number can only go down due to losses. (By the way it was the same in the original Panzer General so it is like that since 1994. So I guess the only "logic" behind this is that it was the same in Panzer General.)

I didn t know that and as far as I know it was not mentioned in library.
In fact it is mentioned in the library in the "HINTS & TIPS" section:

sample2301.jpg

I added it to"HINTS & TIPS" section of the library and not the "CHANGES" section because it is not a game feature changed by the mod but a default hard coded feature of the base game.

And it is also mentioned in the very first message box:

sample2302.jpg

But I know that despite all these a lot of players are still unaware of this and that's why the videos made by faos333 are extremely useful and important to explain these and other game mechanics.

Heeey I have already admitted that I was wrong

Mea culpa, maxima culpa

It was just strange for me because from my childhood I always try to pay attention to small details as well, in every aspect in my life, and my job ( controller) requires this as well

But obviously, as a human, sometimes I miss things too, rarely even important ones as well.

I didn t even realise this that I lost 2 transports before, because on and back to Africa, obviously I never used 8 transports in a same time, so 8 or 6 was kind a same for me.
Just when at turn 91 when I was able to land another 3 more transports from 6 ( the first 6 arrived without losses and another 3 by air ) I realized the tragedy. And because transports needed 4 turns to land ( looong loong way because of a ton of mines ) I had no choice that to load turn 86

I never wanted this, hope you still accept it as a Total Victory if somehow I succeed

And obviously if I knew it before that transport losses are permanent, I would have played differently in turn 89 and 90, I just thought losses doesn t matter, and honestly I wanted to lose 2 of my transports on purpose to be able to embark the my 2 panthers. ( I could have deleted transports which is not a permanent loss right ? )

I give myself 20-25 % chance , because things went surprisingly good, and by turn 91 I eliminated every single enemy transport ship and the fleet as well close to Normandy. And my small expeditionary force fought really well, so.... well, I will post the result if you don t mind, I have my strategy and plan now

And you were right, the really good german planes came very late, but fortunately, quantity wins over quality

And my planes were much worse, but way more numerous

Nevertheless, even with this only one frustrating experience, I loved and enjoyed 99% of the campaign, whatever the final results of my campaign will be minor or total victory

P:S One more last question : What do you think the problem about the FW upgrades ? I mean in reality can you upgrade only 2 or what happened ?

Posted: **Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:58 pm**

faos333 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:53 am Do you think is possible to invade UK with a Sea Lion late 41? in the current 2.3 version?
It is tempting idea since you face less mines during the first winter near the cost south west of London.
Are they any players tried it?

I usually invade Britain in early 42 and in the south. I use the winter snowing to move my units close to the coast when they cannot be seen. And of course winter snowing is somewhat random: after the initial 100% snowing the latter half of the winter is either snow or overcast which is decided randomly in each game. So it requires some luck as well. But even then it is hard because some coastal artillery and/or radar should be destroyed as well by then so that there is at least 1-2 coastal sea hexes that the AI cannot see. If the AI sees a sea transport next to the coast it usually moves a ground unit to attack it thereby blocking the landing area as well. So I usually also use my paratroopers to draw some attention on themselves but then they are duely destroyed. I usually also take an 88mm AA against the British tanks, which can also help with the air defense.

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:26 pm I didn t even realise this that I lost 2 transports before, because on and back to Africa, obviously I never used 8 transports in a same time, so 8 or 6 was kind a same for me.
Just when at turn 91 when I was able to land another 3 more transports from 6 ( the first 6 arrived without losses and another 3 by air ) I realized the tragedy. And because transports needed 4 turns to land ( looong loong way because of a ton of mines ) I had no choice that to load turn 86 I never wanted this, hope you still accept it as a Total Victory if somehow I succeed
And obviously if I knew it before that transport losses are permanent, I would have played differently in turn 89 and 90, I just thought losses doesn t matter, and honestly I wanted to lose 2 of my transports on purpose to be able to embark the my 2 panthers. ( I could have deleted transports which is not a permanent loss right ? )

Yeah, sure, whatever,
excuses, excuses...

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:26 pm well, I will post the result if you don t mind

Please, do so.

P:S One more last question : What do you think the problem about the FW upgrades ? I mean in reality can you upgrade only 2 or what happened ?

Ah, yes, it is something I could not fix due to game engine limitations. The problem is, if you move a fighter unit to that Wien airport when it is being transported by the Ju 52 "Air Unit Transport" and then "land" it in the next turn the game script will run twice instead of just once and thereby the game will use two upgrade opportunities instead of just one. Then you would be able to upgrade only two fighters and not three (because you use two opportunities for one of them). It is because the script is triggered by the fighter unit being in landed mode and if it is transported by the "Air Unit Transport" then it is regarded as being in landed mode (because it was embarked into the Ju 52 while landed) even though the Ju 52 itself is in air mode above the airport. I tried to fix it by stopping the running of the script if the Ju 52 air transport is above the airport, but it did not work because the game handles these transports as "ghost" units - I guess that's why it is also not possible to limit their fuel as well. (They are not like other normal units.)

OK, so to put it short, all I could do in v2.3 is to warn the player that it may happen and to keep an eye on these units and if the upgrade happens already after the fighter was moved over the airport while transported by a Ju 52 it has to be moved away immediately.

Posted: **Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:08 am**

Tipps Norway video

Early operations continue with Operation Weserübung April 1940 the invasion of Norway. Replay historical events with realistic battle results. The BE Mod story includes the sinking of Blücher in the Oslo fjord by Oscarsborg Fortress.

SEE THE VIDEO:
https://youtu.be/qbLzTXnb9uQ

Learn the new Mod mechanics, accumulate prestige, earn experience, have more fun with the historical set up and realistic battle results.

The latest tips video is to premiere this Thursday.
Subscribe and set your reminder not to miss it.

: norwa2.PNG (487.6 KiB) Viewed 2702 times

Posted: **Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:02 pm**

1945, 4 of March ( TURN 92, 4 MONTHS TILL THE END :

The German High Command (OKH) received 2 devastating news in a same day : The first, that the Americans are now very close to develop a new secret bomb, which can destory whole cities.
German Spy Network reported that they are probably only months away, so completing a Sea Lion successfully and negotiate in a power position is more important and urgent than ever.

Second, the British shot down our commander Ju 52 plane, and captured both a general and the most important details and map of our invasion plan.
Now that they know our next step, they prepared to counter it, and sent all of their remaining air force....scouts, bombers, the last reserve of their Royal Navy, and 80% of the RAF fighter force to annihilate our transport ships. Unfortunately, we didn t even have time to inform and warn them and turn them back. This is an absolute emergency, and have to decide immadiately.

Finally, my plan was accepted, that we have no choice but to alarm all of our fighters and send ALL of them who can be there on time and/or have enough fuel to do that. The losses will be probably horrendous, but the outcome of the war depends on their effort and sacrifice!

A day later..............

The air battle is over, the biggest and the most heroic one in history. The losses were even higher than expected, double in a month than in the whole war combined....Nearly 30% of our combined fighter force have been lost.... BUT we saved the transport ships... I mean... most of them. And with them, we saved our hope to rule Britain, and rule the world. Even a Hungarian tank regiment, the new development called TAS joined the invasion. The time is still short, the final countdown has begun, but our morale is higher than ever, and our army now belives in Total Victory again.

Posted: **Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am**

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:02 pm 1945, 4 of March ( TURN 92, 4 MONTHS TILL THE END :

The German High Command (OKH) received 2 devastating news in a same day : The first, that the Americans are now very close to develop a new secret bomb, which can destory whole cities.
German Spy Network reported that they are probably only months away, so completing a Sea Lion successfully and negotiate in a power position is more important and urgent than ever......

keep it up, I very much liked your story of events

and the nice addition about the Hungarian unit, a tribute to McGuba

Did you manage to bring any more artillery?

Posted: **Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:07 pm**

faos333 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am
Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:02 pm 1945, 4 of March ( TURN 92, 4 MONTHS TILL THE END :

The German High Command (OKH) received 2 devastating news in a same day : The first, that the Americans are now very close to develop a new secret bomb, which can destory whole cities.
German Spy Network reported that they are probably only months away, so completing a Sea Lion successfully and negotiate in a power position is more important and urgent than ever......

keep it up, I very much liked your story of events and the nice addition about the Hungarian unit, a tribute to McGuba
Did you manage to bring any more artillery?

Yes, one more artillery. Other 2 bombard the shore ( they have 4 and 5 ranges ) from the other part of the channel.
Turn 95 now, I am only ONE hex away from London, King George made his dramatic speech to his nation, resistance started in Northern Ireland, Basra has fallen, and the endgame started in the Middle East, even Churchill is in danger.

My hungarian hussar regiment captured Glasgow, and we firmly control all objectives... except London. But in the next turn, the carpet bombing of London will begin, all of my Heinkel 177 level bomber regiment is still alive ( 5). Joined by 3 Italian battleships, the Tirpitz, and 2 more battlecruiers, the ugly sisters called Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
The last 4 units will also land in next turn a Panther, a PZ 4 with 330 exp and 3 heroes, and 2 of my best infantry units as well

Posted: **Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:21 pm**

Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:07 pm
faos333 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:04 am
Marginaldefeat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:02 pm 1945, 4 of March ( TURN 92, 4 MONTHS TILL THE END :

The German High Command (OKH) received 2 devastating news in a same day : The first, that the Americans are now very close to develop a new secret bomb, which can destory whole cities.
German Spy Network reported that they are probably only months away, so completing a Sea Lion successfully and negotiate in a power position is more important and urgent than ever......

keep it up, I very much liked your story of events and the nice addition about the Hungarian unit, a tribute to McGuba
Did you manage to bring any more artillery?
Yes, one more artillery. Other 2 bombard the shore ( they have 4 and 5 ranges ) from the other part of the channel.
Turn 95 now, I am only ONE hex away from London, King George made his dramatic speech to his nation, resistance started in Northern Ireland, Basra has fallen, and the endgame started in the Middle East, even Churchill is in danger.

I see, most likely you will get it

My hungarian hussar regiment captured Glasgow, and we firmly control all objectives... except London. But in the next turn, the carpet bombing of London will begin, all of my Heinkel 177 level bomber regiment is still alive ( 5). Joined by 3 Italian battleships, the Tirpitz, and 2 more battlecruiers, the ugly sisters called Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
The last 4 units will also land in next turn a Panther, a PZ 4 with 330 exp and 3 heroes, and 2 of my best infantry units as well

Posted: **Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:46 pm**

When we finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel....rain, rain rain and...more rain began. for 4 straight weeks the storm of the century rampaged over Southern England and the channel.
Finally, in May the Siege of London has begun. But after sooo much time wasted, and the last reserves of the English army was mobilized, our scouting units were massacred, before the main army arrived. ( a Stug 3 and a recon ) At least a good news arrived from the Middle East, that we the enemy resistance there just have came to an end.
But will be able to capture London in time ?

Slitherine

Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

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