Slitherine

soldier wrote:Regarding prestige
I customized or cut the rate of experience gain in my DLC files drastically on field Marshall setting (from 100 % exp for the first star down to 20%) and havn't been able to save massive amounts mentioned above despite a very successful campaign. Nearly every penny iv'e earned has been spent on keeping my elite forces at a higher exp level than the AI. I've been reasonably comfortable prestige wise throughout the first 3 DLC's but the moneys definitely drying up in late 42 and I can no longer upgrade all units to the latest and greatest.
I'm not sure if the stars are worth it as a valid strategy considering the amount of cash I've been spending and I'm not sure how others play it but its a habit from the old PG and a challenge.

you hav emy interest up soldier please let us know how far and how well you are doing at those settings and the ((how to do)) it myself. where and what to edit.

I've started a second 39' thru 44' campaign. I'm beginning to feal the stars maybe might not be that important. once the heroes kick in. I have my old PG habits I'm trying hard to shed with PzC myself. the heroes changes allot of strategy for me now.

oh, had to mention: when I started 39' again......I was a royal screw up! was so used to the big guns of 44' and had to start over

Its a little complicated (or it was for me).
If you can get inside your Panzer Corp install and open up the DLC folder, you will find all your grand campaign folders (GC39, GC40, GC41 etc depending on which ones you bought). Each GC folder has their own data folder which contains the Gamerules.pzdat file. Open this file (preferably with Microsoft Excel but Notepad also can) and scroll down the list to ExpGrowRate (0 to 5) which represents how fast each star will develop. Your first star develops at a rate of 100% but this figure is cut by half for each corresponding star to slow down the snowball effect of PG because its much easier for a 4 star unit to gain another star than it is for a no star unit.
The current growth rate is
100
50
25
12
6
3

but i lowered mine down to

20
10
8
6
4
2

so its much tougher for my units to gain experience in the DLC's especially at the start of their careers. With these slashed rates you can't ever afford to get add replacements if you wan't to gain stars. I initially tried it because i didn't really like the way the experience cap was implemented and noticed my guys were reaching it pretty easily in 39. I wanted the gain to be more linear and slower throughout the campaign and have noticed that i havn't yet bumped into the cap and have also chewed up all my extra prestige along the way.
I can't take credit for the idea though, someone else showed me how to do it but i forget who now.
You can adjust the rates to whatever you like but remember it has to be changed in each GC/Data folder when you start that DLC. I'm not sure how 43 will turn out but its been quite difficult to stay afloat in 42 so far.
Hope this helps

brettz123 wrote:

shawkhan wrote:In order to build up prestige it is only necessary to forgo most of the expensive bells and whistles of the early years. Don't buy the latest panzers, don't use any transport better than trucks and only take regular replacements until 1941. Infantry and the basic towed artillery are fine until Barbarossa time. I also saved 40k prestige by following this route. In 1944 I still have 37k, playing on FM.

No you don't need to do any of that. I start using elite reinforcements during 1939 DLC and I upgrade to the best of everything (well within the class anyway when it comes to tanks). And I always upgrade to the best transports as soon as possible. All of these things save prestige in the long run by making you able to get more objectives in some scenarios and by reducing casualties. Staying with trucks is a huge mistake.

I agree completely--especially about the transports. The first armored transport after the basic truck can move a maximum of 7 hexes on good terrain. The best armored transport moves 8 hexes on good terrain. Over the course of a 20 turn game, a unit riding in the best armored transport available can potentially move 20 more hex spaces per game. To me, this is a big advantage.

soldier wrote:Hope this helps

very very much and thanks to you and friends

that opens up a multitude of possiblities and have a more control of the prestige at any level house rules are great but I tend to cheat on myself

PzC is getting better all the time

to me 43' was harder than 44' or I was finally getting used to the scenarios game options in 44'. grandma is slow but she gets the job done is my motto

let us know how your doing in the campaign and again thanks

I think the best way to save prestige is to never attack an unsuppressed enemy. Keep a good defense and you can sit tight. I know sometimes there's an urge that can't be resisted...but I simply got tired of taking causualties and never having enough prestige.

Also, something my Dad does all the time: turkey shoots. Sit one hex away from a cleared city and let the AI spawn new units. You will run the turncount and get more prestige, as well as extra experience/kills.

There are some units, like conscripts, that you are 100% safe attacking in the open without suppression.

soldier wrote:40 k for the start of 43 really does sound like plenty though. That should keep me up to date with the latest kit and going strongly (I hope ).

That is what I was thinking though I am down to 23k right now but all I have left to upgrade is the fighter jets. The King Tigers are almost 1k to upgrade to. That took a huge bite out of my saved up prestige along with upgrading all of my tac bombers to Focke Wulfes. You should be fine though I am about half way done with DLC 44 so I should be able to make it through with what I have left fairly easily.

when you realize you are hoarding prestige and winning easy, increase difficulty above field marshall.
I mean if you played the vanilla campaign several times, replayed the dlc-s several times, of course you will be drowning in prestige. Also I think field marshall more like "normal" difficulty. I did love the casual play of the new dlcs, in wich I passed them from 1st try with minimal loss, on FM.

To sumup, play on rommell diff if you drown in prestige. It will be much more interesting. The trend in all games lately is faceroll mode, so you should think about the various difficulty modes available.

krugec wrote:when you realize you are hoarding prestige and winning easy, increase difficulty above field marshall.
I mean if you played the vanilla campaign several times, replayed the dlc-s several times, of course you will be drowning in prestige. Also I think field marshall more like "normal" difficulty. I did love the casual play of the new dlcs, in wich I passed them from 1st try with minimal loss, on FM.

To sumup, play on rommell diff if you drown in prestige. It will be much more interesting. The trend in all games lately is faceroll mode, so you should think about the various difficulty modes available.

that was my question to FM players earlier with lots of prestige.....did you have you played PzC GC's earlier? did you have you already known what to expect?

dks wrote:

krugec wrote:when you realize you are hoarding prestige and winning easy, increase difficulty above field marshall.
I mean if you played the vanilla campaign several times, replayed the dlc-s several times, of course you will be drowning in prestige. Also I think field marshall more like "normal" difficulty. I did love the casual play of the new dlcs, in wich I passed them from 1st try with minimal loss, on FM.

To sumup, play on rommell diff if you drown in prestige. It will be much more interesting. The trend in all games lately is faceroll mode, so you should think about the various difficulty modes available.

that was my question to FM players earlier with lots of prestige.....did you have you played PzC GC's earlier? did you have you already known what to expect?

I played the Grand Campaign when it first came out. I have played through DLC 41 on Manstein also. Personally I don't really enjoy Manstein so I stopped playing on it. I may go through on Rommel which seems like it would be fun but considering I saved up 40k+ prestige I don't think it will really have an effect on my play style too much.

I'm not sure I would consider FM to be the normal level considering how many posters on these boards have issues at lower levels.

I would like to try some of the higher levels but do not believe in cheating in order to reach them. Is there a chance that these levels can be made available with the new patch? As far as the skill level of game players, there are probably 10-15 people who truly excel and hundreds, if not thousands, who struggle even on the lower levels. People can get a false impression of the reality by reading these forums. Many of those, like Deducter, have worked on the scenarios and played through the battles so many times that there are few surprises for them. This of course makes the game much easier. I doubt there are many people who play a battle for the first time who think they are too easy. The Korsun battles in DLC'44 were about as much excitement as my core could stand, seeing them for the first time. After I finish DLC'44, I will start again and try to challenge myself by using the bare minimum of higher level units.
Is there anyone out there who has played the game w/o air units and/or heavy armor? That would be a challenge I think.

brettz123 wrote:

dks wrote:

krugec wrote:when you realize you are hoarding prestige and winning easy, increase difficulty above field marshall.
I mean if you played the vanilla campaign several times, replayed the dlc-s several times, of course you will be drowning in prestige. Also I think field marshall more like "normal" difficulty. I did love the casual play of the new dlcs, in wich I passed them from 1st try with minimal loss, on FM.

To sumup, play on rommell diff if you drown in prestige. It will be much more interesting. The trend in all games lately is faceroll mode, so you should think about the various difficulty modes available.

that was my question to FM players earlier with lots of prestige.....did you have you played PzC GC's earlier? did you have you already known what to expect?

I played the Grand Campaign when it first came out. I have played through DLC 41 on Manstein also. Personally I don't really enjoy Manstein so I stopped playing on it. I may go through on Rommel which seems like it would be fun but considering I saved up 40k+ prestige I don't think it will really have an effect on my play style too much.

I'm not sure I would consider FM to be the normal level considering how many posters on these boards have issues at lower levels.

thanks brettz123

for the casual wargamer I think FM is just right for what it was intended to be. Manstein reminds me of PG +3 level campaign. I haven't played PzC at that level and will try for sure. what I mean by PG +3 level is that after that there wasn't much left to do without house rules and so on. of course PzC is no PG clone. two different approaches but similar.

playing my second round of the 39'-44' camp and I have 1033 pp after rebuilds at deploy turn of The Hague. of course I have a different Core approach. loaded for Bear with lots of arty this time. so spending more that way.

what I would really like to see is the random placements option in PzC. the replay would be awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwesome!!!!!

easy for me to want but a real headache for the Rudankort I bet

If anyone wants a challenge without Manstein-esque strength inflation, try GC43 with my mod. Bonus points for playing it through all the GCs. Obviously it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you already have a core with 40k prestige saved up. I think DV in 1943 even on FM requires careful tactics and thought and nearly perfect play.

deducter wrote:If anyone wants a challenge without Manstein-esque strength inflation, try GC43 with my mod. Bonus points for playing it through all the GCs. Obviously it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you already have a core with 40k prestige saved up. I think DV in 1943 even on FM requires careful tactics and thought and nearly perfect play.

For those of us currently working our way through the DLCs, how would the switchover work? Take me, for example--I am about to finish '41. Could I save my core at the end and reformat it in your e-file when I start '42, or would I need to start fresh with a new stock core?

robman wrote:

deducter wrote:If anyone wants a challenge without Manstein-esque strength inflation, try GC43 with my mod. Bonus points for playing it through all the GCs. Obviously it wouldn't be much of a challenge if you already have a core with 40k prestige saved up. I think DV in 1943 even on FM requires careful tactics and thought and nearly perfect play.

For those of us currently working our way through the DLCs, how would the switchover work? Take me, for example--I am about to finish '41. Could I save my core at the end and reformat it in your e-file when I start '42, or would I need to start fresh with a new stock core?

Yes it can be done. I played throught the 41 and 42 DLC's with the stock e-file and then for the 43 DLC I have updated to the Deducter's one.

Funny thing with the difficulty in the DLC's. During the beta testing I played the 43 DLC on colonel, with the stock e-file and with the preset core and I found it more challenging than my current game on Field Marshal, with saved core and with the Deducter's e-file I guess what's affecting the difficulty is the knowledge of maps and the experience ( heroes ) of my core. But yes, I recommend the Deducter's e-file wholeheartedly, to everyone who is looking for more historically balanced gameplay. For example, I'm not even sure if it's worthy to upgrade some of my panzers to the Panther's D. I think I'd be better off even with my cheper and more reliable Panzers III M ( historically prior to the Operation Citadel, the II SS Panzer Corps consisted in 40% of Panzers III ).

Well, this is certainly getting a bit more OT, but my goal is to make it so that there isn't a clear choice whether it's better to get this panzer or the other. Every unit has its strength, every unit its weakness. This is clear once I finally finish up my manual, which is clocking in at 40 pages and counting...

For instance, if you spend your time training up a veteran Panther D to 3 or 4 stars, it will crush almost anything in its path short of a IS-2. But getting to that point will expend tons of prestige. And the Panther D has serious weaknesses in 1943, and not until 1944 will it get better. However, not using any Panthers/Tigers could also be a problem, as you need something to engage those KV-85s and IS-1s, plus the Panthers and Tigers are reliable flank protection. The point is that there is no more obvious choice, so you really have to think about what units you get.

My e-files can be loaded in any year, although it has been optimized for a full playthrough. Don't let that stop you from changing over in 1942 or 1943 though.

deducter wrote:Well, this is certainly getting a bit more OT, but my goal is to make it so that there isn't a clear choice whether it's better to get this panzer or the other. Every unit has its strength, every unit its weakness. This is clear once I finally finish up my manual, which is clocking in at 40 pages and counting...

For instance, if you spend your time training up a veteran Panther D to 3 or 4 stars, it will crush almost anything in its path short of a IS-2. But getting to that point will expend tons of prestige. And the Panther D has serious weaknesses in 1943, and not until 1944 will it get better. However, not using any Panthers/Tigers could also be a problem, as you need something to engage those KV-85s and IS-1s, plus the Panthers and Tigers are reliable flank protection. The point is that there is no more obvious choice, so you really have to think about what units you get.

My e-files can be loaded in any year, although it has been optimized for a full playthrough. Don't let that stop you from changing over in 1942 or 1943 though.

Being lazy here but can you provide a link to your mod?

Surely I don't want to field any Panzers III in 1944 I am just waiting for the Panthers Ausf A. Don't want the early models to fail me due to the mechanical breakdowns

Link:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=30708

Just fyi, the Panzer III was obsolete in 1943, and really obsolete in 1944. In fact its stats don't get better in 1944, prices aren't cheaper, etc. This is historically inspired, as the last Panzer III was built in 1943. All further Panzer III production was funneled in StuG IIIG, which is an amazing AT weapon.

Maybe it would be cool if the Panzers III could be upgraded to Stugs III in your mode?

I think we should keep any discussion about mods in the mod subforum from now on.