Slitherine

Just looking at these matchups:
Chinese (Zhou) 1046-701 BC versus Beidi 1046-701 BC
Chinese (Han) 206-100 BC versus Xiongnu 200 BC -155 AD
Chinese 3 Kingdoms (Wei) 220-265 AD versus Chinese 3 Kingdoms (Shu) 221-263 AD
Chinese 3 Kingdoms (Wu) 222-280 AD versus Chinese (Jin) 266-316 AD
Chinese (Jin) 317-420 AD v Sixteen Kingdoms 304-439 AD
Chinese (Sui) 582-617 AD v Chinese (Chen) 557-589 AD

1. good.
2. is I think one sided in favor of the Han, they will shoot those cavalry to bits with their mixed firepower infantry. How about Di or Qiang as opposition instead, gives the option of some infantry.
3. good, if somewhat similar armies.
4. good, though similar to 3.
5. good
6. good

Would agree that the best one to discard would be 3 or 4.

Will these later periods require FOG Medieval? Hope not. Actually, if Sicily is the theme, there are plenty of earlier battles of note including the later wars between Syracuse and Carthage, numerous Carthage vs. Rome and the slave revolt against Rome to name just a few.

Deeter

deeter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:44 pm Will these later periods require FOG Medieval? Hope not. Actually, if Sicily is the theme, there are plenty of earlier battles of note including the later wars between Syracuse and Carthage, numerous Carthage vs. Rome and the slave revolt against Rome to name just a few.

Deeter

The armies of 8) Norman conquest of Sicily: Arab(North Africa) 1000-1160 v Norman 923-1040 are available in FoG2:Ancients.

Good to know, but the earlier battles are of more interest to me.

Deeter

tyronec wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:13 am Chinese (Han) 206-100 BC versus Xiongnu 200 BC -155 AD
2. is I think one sided in favor of the Han, they will shoot those cavalry to bits with their mixed firepower infantry. How about Di or Qiang as opposition instead, gives the option of some infantry.

I agree that this is an unbalanced matchup.

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:41 am

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:50 am I will be doing a poll from about 10/9 to choose which theme we will have for Season 12.

Will this poll be about which actual battles to keep/remove in the Sicilian Cauldron? Or about which overall theme to apply for the Themed Event of Season 12?

No decision about the scope of the poll yet, Pete?

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:39 am No decision about the scope of the poll yet, Pete?

As my previous post states . . .

"I will be doing a poll from about 10/9 to choose which theme we will have for Season 12."

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:38 am

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:39 am No decision about the scope of the poll yet, Pete?

As my previous post states . . .

"I will be doing a poll from about 10/9 to choose which theme we will have for Season 12."

OK, great: thanks, Pete! The reason for the confusion (at my end) was that we had a debate off-forum about whether you had decided to go with the Sicilian Cauldron theme or not, and what the poll was then all about. But now (even) we know that the Sicilian Cauldron is still just one of the alternatives.

tyronec wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:13 am 2. is I think one sided in favor of the Han, they will shoot those cavalry to bits with their mixed firepower infantry. How about Di or Qiang as opposition instead, gives the option of some infantry.

I have just spent some time checking this match-up out and I do not agree that it is unsuitable for the tournament. I set up a Hot Seat match and I felt that the Xiongu army had reasonable counterplay and tactical options. They are more mobile than the Chinese Han army and may be able to get their LH behind them. Their missile capability is generally a bit better than the Chinese Han, even if the Han maximise their Mixed infantry units. It is slightly easier for them to achieve "disrupts" from shooting than the Han. Careful use of the LH by the Xiongu player could also get the Chinese Han infantry to use up a lot of their crossbow ammunition in the earlier stages of the battle.

A screenshot from my Hot Seat game. The Xiongu are ahead 13-2

. . .

BobGanoush wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:17 pm You could replace the Vandals match with a Norman conquest match

Arab(North Africa) 1000-1160 v Norman 923-1040

Sorry, I will have to rule this idea out as the Norman army only goes up to 1040, but they first arrived in Sicily in 1061 which requires an Italo-Norman army from FOG2 Medieval. I do not want to spread the Themed Event over FOG2 Ancients and FOG2 Medieval as it may affect recruitment to it.

Here is the final list for "The Sicilian Cauldron" option for the Themed Event. There are 4x "BC" battles, which can be used for the group stages, and 2x "AD" battles, which can be used for the KO matches.

1) 2nd Sicilian War 410-404 BC
Syracusan 412-281 BC v Carthaginian 410-341 BC

2) Peloponnesian War 431-404 BC
Syracusan 412-281 BC v Greek 460-281 BC

3) Carthaginian attempt to conquer Sicily 278 BC
Pyrrhic 280-275 BC with Syracusan 280-211 BC allies v Carthaginian 280-263BC

4) First Punic War 264-241 BC (Battle of Agrigentum 262 BC)
Roman 280-220 BC v Carthaginian 262-236 BC

5) Gothic War 535-554 AD
Byzantine 493-550 AD v Ostrogoth 493-561 AD

6) Muslim Conquest of Sicily 827-902 AD
Byzantine 740-903 AD v Arab Abbasid 836-873 AD

And this is the Barbarian Migration option that we were discussing a few weeks ago . . .

Group stage (choose 3 from 4)
1) Western Huns 376-454 AD v Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD
2) Roman 313-378 AD v Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD with German Foot Tribes 260-492 AD allies
3) Roman 425-492 AD with Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD v Western Huns 376-454 AD with Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD
4) Roman 425-492 AD v Visigoths 419-621 AD

Knock-out stage (official scenarios)
SF1 - Argentoratum 357 AD (Romans v German Foot Tribes with German Horse Tribe allies)
SF2 - Nedao 454 AD (Gepids/Ostrogoths v Huns)
F - Chalons 451 AD (Romans/German Horse Tribes v Western Huns/German Horse Tribes)

The third and final option for the Themed Event is a Roman one . . .

Group stage
1. Celts invade Italy 390-387 BC
Roman 490-341 BC v Gallic 390-301 BC

2. Second Samnite War 326-304 BC
Roman 340-281 BC v Samnite 355-272 BC

3. First Punic War 264-241 BC
Roman 280-220 BC v Carthaginian 262-236 BC

4. Roman-Seleucid War 192-188 BC
Roman 199-106 BC with Greek 227-146 BC allies v Seleucid 205-167 BC with Greek 227-146 BC allies

KO Stage
SF. First Mithridatic War 89-85 BC
Roman 105-25 BC v Pontic 110-85 BC

F. Roman Civil War (Caesar v Pompey)
Roman 105-25 BC v Roman 105-25 BC

I will set up the poll tomorrow, running for a week up to just before I send out the invitations for Season 12.

Hi - count me in for the tournament starting in October please

albatros wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:08 pm Hi - count me in for the tournament starting in October please

OK, I have added you to the invitation list.

Here is the poll for the Themed Event as promised. It will run for 7 days. You have only one vote and you are able to change your mind if you want to.

1) "Barbarian Migrations" . . .

Group stage
1) Western Huns 376-454 AD v Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD
2) Roman 313-378 AD v Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD with German Foot Tribes 260-492 AD allies
3) Roman 425-492 AD with Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD v Western Huns 376-454 AD with Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD
4) Roman 425-492 AD v Visigoths 419-621 AD

Knock-out stage (official scenarios)
SF1 - Argentoratum 357 AD (Romans v German Foot Tribes with German Horse Tribe allies)
SF2 - Nedao 454 AD (Gepids/Ostrogoths v Huns)
F - Chalons 451 AD (Romans/German Horse Tribes v Western Huns/German Horse Tribes)


2) "Sicily, Cauldron of Empires" . . .

Group stage
1) 2nd Sicilian War 410-404 BC
Syracusan 412-281 BC v Carthaginian 410-341 BC

2) Peloponnesian War 431-404 BC
Syracusan 412-281 BC v Greek 460-281 BC

3) Carthaginian attempt to conquer Sicily 278 BC
Pyrrhic 280-275 BC with Syracusan 280-211 BC allies v Carthaginian 280-263BC

4) First Punic War 264-241 BC (Battle of Agrigentum 262 BC)
Roman 280-220 BC v Carthaginian 262-236 BC

Knock-out stage
5) Gothic War 535-554 AD
Byzantine 493-550 AD v Ostrogoth 493-561 AD

6) Muslim Conquest of Sicily 827-902 AD
Byzantine 740-903 AD v Arab Abbasid 836-873 AD


3) "Rise of Rome" . . .

Group stage
1. Celts invade Italy 390-387 BC
Roman 490-341 BC v Gallic 390-301 BC

2. Second Samnite War 326-304 BC
Roman 340-281 BC v Samnite 355-272 BC

3. First Punic War 264-241 BC
Roman 280-220 BC v Carthaginian 262-236 BC

4. Roman-Seleucid War 192-188 BC
Roman 199-106 BC with Greek 227-146 BC allies v Seleucid 205-167 BC with Greek 227-146 BC allies

Knock Out Stage
SF. First Mithridatic War 89-85 BC
Roman 105-25 BC v Pontic 110-85 BC

F. Roman Civil War (Caesar v Pompey)
Roman 105-25 BC v Roman 105-25 BC

Kudos to you Pete. You clearly put a lot of work into this for the benefit of others.

I'd consider voting for the Barbarian Migrations, if the knock-out stage didn't contain official scenarios but instead normal battles.