Forwarn45 wrote:One comment on the sub rules. We are giving them a go - but it occurred to me as Axis, that one technique is try to predict where a convoy will be headed and then set up a couple subs in its path that it will hit. It seems potentially effective at getting around a well-escorted convoy and making the war at sea even more frustrating for the Allies - since they don't control where the convoys will move. Any comments on this strategy/technique?
We've heard the comment from a few guys that the sub warfare is very frustrating for the Allies in our mod. Usually they use the experience from the sub warfare in 1940-1941 to make sure a conclusion.
The sub warfare is actually the area we (the mod designers) have spent the most time on trying a lot of different options. We feel that the one we ended up with is the one that is the one closest to simulate the real war sub warfare.
It's actually GOOD that the Allies feel very frustrated about the sub attacks early in the war. The subs nearly starved Britain to death in 1940-1941 in the real war. It was not until 1943 and later the Allies finally got the warfare against the wolfpacks pretty much under control. Churchill once said that the only Axis weapon he really feared was the wolfpacks. At some stage almost no resources got through and the subs sunk muc more ships than the British could replace.
The vanilla game failed to simulate this situation. The British got the Atlantic pretty much under control after build 1-2 new DD's and maybe a CV. It was normal to place a naval group in the central Atlantic that could strike at any German subs daring to attack a convoy. The combat results were so devastating that it was easy to sink the subs or at least deplete them so much so they had to get to port for repairs and stay out of action for several turns. It was simply not economically smart for the Axis player to invest in subs. You lost more PP's than the British did. And it got only worse and worse with the years.
The real war escorts had to start escorting from the starting ports in USA, Canada etc. and escort the convoys all the way to Glasgow or Murmansk. They didn't lurk in the central Atlantic waiting for subs to attack a convoy within movement range of the DD's.
With the changed sub rules we made sure the Allied player must invest in naval tech and also build a lot more new escorts (mainly DD's and CV's). Strategic bombers is also a good idea to build because they can be placed in strategic locations like the Azores, Northern Ireland, Hebrides, Iceland, northern Canada or Greenland. Then they can help depleting subs that attack convoys.
Initially you can't escort all 3 convoys. You can maybe escort 1-2 convoys and if you follow one then you will not
be able to escort the next one because they spawn too far from you. But you decide WHICH convoys to escort and normally you pick the most valuable ones. Since you want to escort more convoys you have a good reason to build even more escorts and invest in naval tech. If you fail to do this then the wolfpacks will harass you for the rest of the game.
If you have 3-4 DD's and BB's in each escort group and maybe a CV as well then you can defend the convoy well and get a shot at each subs attacking this convoy. You just make sure you have ZOC into every hex adjacent to the convoy.
Also remember that the Axis player doesn't know the location of the convoys so he much search for them. The convoys move and you have to search again. So you need several subs just as scouts in order to find some convoys to attack. Even if the convoy was not escorted you have to worry about long range bombers hitting you from the key locations mentioned above.
Sometimes the subs can be located in the path of the convoy, but it doesn't happen often you can force the convoy to "ram" the hidden sub.
Our playing experience shows that a bigger and bigger percentage of the convoy PP's get home the later in the war you get. The subs will continue to be a nuisance all the way into 1943. It's frustrating yes, but the subs won't be able to starve the British into submission unless you neglect to build more escorts.
Our mod is made in such a way the Axis player often will see his "empire"crumble in 1942-1943 and there willl be a struggle to avoid losing Berlin before May 1945. That would have been impossible if the subs were too powerful.
So my suggestion is to continue to play as the Allied playing knowing that investing in more DD's, CV's and strategic bombers will pay off. Eventually you will get the subs pretty much under control and even more PP's will get home to fund e. g. more strategic bombers to bombard German cities.
Our experience is that the sub warfare finally works now. It's very frustrating in 1940 when most of the convoys are sunk and you can't reach the subs before they dive and hide again. But that happened in the real war until the Allies learnt how to escort convoys properly.
The sub warfare is much more fun now for the Axis player and it can actually be worth getting more subs. You know you won't risk getting surrounded by the lurking escorts each time you attack a convoy. With the house rules you know that an unescorted convoy is asking to be attacked, just like in the real war.
And I didn't blame my opponents for having difficulties with the sub rules; they take a while to get used to, especially if you're trying to escort convoys early in the game.
