Slitherine

Ah interesting so you can move to the coast even if there is not a port. Can you give us a example order moving from a open sea tile to the coast of a province without a port? I assume it would look like this if a hypothetical fleet 1 was in the Upper Adriatic and wanted to advance into coastal Bologna:

F1 A Bolo

Is this order formatting correct?

Pixel wrote:Ah interesting so you can move to the coast even if there is not a port. Can you give us a example order moving from a open sea tile to the coast of a province without a port? I assume it would look like this if a hypothetical fleet 1 was in the Upper Adriatic and wanted to advance into coastal Bologna:

F1 A Bolo

Is this order formatting correct?

Ports are important to the game for three reasons, none of which involve movement or transport. You may only build a new fleet in a home country coastal province with a city and a port. Fleets in a coastal province may besiege a fortified city with a garrison if it is a port, but not may not if it is not a port. A garrison may only be converted to a fleet in a port city and vice versa.

Your example is good and legal. The rules suggest using the first five letters of the province's name when writing orders, so Bologna would be "Bolog", but as long as the GM can unambiguously identify the province then it is good. Of course typing the full name is best.

Titus Grigio M diTopo (TGM for short) of the Duchy of Milan sends his greetings to the powers of Greater Italia.

We propose a league of mutual trust and benefits to the noble lords of Siena, Florence, Genoa and even the marsh dwelling Venetzi, to defend against the aggressions of the new-fangled nation states of the barbarians, be they Turkoman, Frankish, Papist or Iberian in nature.
The League of Lombardy has a nice wring to it. To those invited please send pledges of support, proposals and/or interesting deals.

Saluti!

I would also mention that TheGrayMouser has created a version of the Extra Nations v3 mod that adds a second Italian army list (Milan) with new flag graphics, and a much reduced number of extraneous army lists. This facilitates fighting an Italian vs. Italian battle. He and I have tried it out and it works fine.

Here is a link to the zip file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DiRkWZ ... sp=sharing

Just follow the instructions in the Install MachCampaign.txt file.

BEWARE CHRISTIAN PRINCES, Milanese intentions may not be as honourable as they first appear. Papal legates at the Milanese court, privy to clandestine conversations between Titus Grigio M diTopo [who has usurped the rightful Francesco Sforza, Duke of Milan] and Alexandro Bentivolio, his Lieutenant-General of his State has expressed his true intentions having obtained a transcript of the original proposal that informs the League proclamation. It reads:-

Titus Grigio M diTopo (TGM for short) of the Duchy of Milan will send his greetings to the future subjegated states of Greater Italia.

We will propose a league of subservient states that benefits the noble lords of Milan by the ensuring Siena, Florence, Genoa and even those detestable marsh dwelling Venetzi divert their wealth and attentions from Milan. The League of Lombardy has a wring to it that diverts attention away from us, gives us time to build our treasury and an unstoppable force, thereby disguising our true intentions.Those invited will waste all their forces and expenditure so we can conserve Milanese strength for their unexpected subjection.

Saluti!

On behalf of the fair minded, benevolent and most Christian nations we urge you to not only think more on Milanese deception but support the spiritual leader of Christendom and join those who are averse to the purveyors and defenders of heretical Lutheran precepts. God grant that Italy also may not turn from the Roman church to the shame of the priests and the Papacy,.

GDod wrote:

His Imperial Majesty and Bard.jpg

BEWARE CHRISTIAN PRINCES, Milanese intentions may not be as honourable as they first appear. Papal legates at the Milanese court, privy to clandestine conversations between Titus Grigio M diTopo [who has usurped the rightful Francesco Sforza, Duke of Milan] and Alexandro Bentivolio, his Lieutenant-General of his State has expressed his true intentions having obtained a transcript of the original proposal that informs the League proclamation. It reads:-

Titus Grigio M diTopo (TGM for short) of the Duchy of Milan will send his greetings to the future subjegated states of Greater Italia.

We will propose a league of subservient states that benefits the noble lords of Milan by the ensuring Siena, Florence, Genoa and even those detestable marsh dwelling Venetzi divert their wealth and attentions from Milan. The League of Lombardy has a wring to it that diverts attention away from us, gives us time to build our treasury and an unstoppable force, thereby disguising our true intentions.Those invited will waste all their forces and expenditure so we can conserve Milanese strength for their unexpected subjection.

Saluti!

On behalf of the fair minded, benevolent and most Christian nations we urge you to not only think more on Milanese deception but support the spiritual leader of Christendom and join those who are averse to the purveyors and defenders of heretical Lutheran precepts. God grant that Italy also may not turn from the Roman church to the shame of the priests and the Papacy,.

So speaks the succesor of numerous Fredericks and Otto von Blottos whom get lost in Alps chasing sheep then invade our fair cities. Meanwhile harbouring heretics seems to be the Bohemian way of doing business. If the holy palitinate was not invited to the Lombard league, its only because it needs no such Earthly institution!. Only a Visigoth could misread our heralds proclmation for peace amongst the small nations of Italy. Now, if you need a bank loan certainly we can speak again,so take advantage of the new years low low usery rates.

Most Christian Princes, do we need more proof of Milanese vile promotion of heretical activities?

Now, if you need a bank loan certainly we can speak again,so take advantage of the new years low low usery rates.

I created an Italian Wars Campaign Wordplay topic so that the game play doesn't get lost in the word play. Please post thematic, non-game mechanic posts there for all to enjoy.

Rules Question:

* It appears no new armies, garrison or fleets can be built this turn ( ie the first turn), correct? I almost missed that...

*can one declare a famine relief on a NON owned province? (whether player controlled or autonomous)

* I need some clarification:
Example: Player A spends the 18d to bribe player B Army (I)
player B suspect this and spends 18d ( counter bribe x6) the counter bribe fails... player B would have needed to counter bribe at 21d is this right?

*battles: the rules state that a "defender" can chose open or defend style but armies will each fight at 1200 points ( exept when "reinforced") The default MP points are attacker 1200 versus 1080 for the defender at medium battles... So the defenses are balanced by a slightly bigger attacker. Since we are playing with "equal armies", why would anyone ever chose open? Should this even be an option ? ( the board game rules as you noted dont give the "defender" any advantage..)
I have no real opnion on this, as I have played very few attack/defend battles verus humans...

* what if two players bribe (convert) an autonomous garrison? whom gets it?

* It appears no new armies, garrison or fleets can be built this turn ( ie the first turn), correct? I almost missed that...
Yes, no builds on the first turn.

*can one declare a famine relief on a NON owned province? (whether player controlled or autonomous)
Yes, you can spend ducats on famine relief on any province. It might be something that you negotiate with another nation. Consequently two nations may spend ducats on famine relief of the same province.

* I need some clarification:
Example: Player A spends the 18d to bribe player B Army (I)
player B suspect this and spends 18d ( counter bribe x6) the counter bribe fails... player B would have needed to counter bribe at 21d is this right?
Here are the Counter-Bribe rules:

C – Counter-Bribe. This order is given to try to nullify a suspected bribe attempt. The name of the unit the counter-bribe affects must also be noted. A counter-bribe may be any number of ducats in multiples of three. If a unit has both a bribe and a counter-bribe assigned in the same turn, then the bribe fails if it is smaller. If there are multiple bribes, then the counter-bribe is only compared to the largest bribe. If a counter-bribe is ordered for another player’s military unit, be sure to include the Major Power notation. If a counter-bribe is ordered for an autonomous Garrison, note the name of the province. Counter-bribes are only effective against bribes. They may not be used against rebellion or assassination orders.

So yes you are right that the counter-bribe must be at the 21d level to overcome a 18d bribe. Mercenary armies are fickle.

*battles: the rules state that a "defender" can chose open or defend style but armies will each fight at 1200 points ( exept when "reinforced") The default MP points are attacker 1200 versus 1080 for the defender at medium battles... So the defenses are balanced by a slightly bigger attacker. Since we are playing with "equal armies", why would anyone ever chose open? Should this even be an option ? ( the board game rules as you noted dont give the "defender" any advantage..)
I have no real opnion on this, as I have played very few attack/defend battles verus humans...
There is a FP penalty for choosing Defend for the defender; as you say 1200 FP becomes 1080 FP. It it is Open Battle then it is 1,200 FP vs.1,200 FP. I assume that RBS thought that a 1,200 FP attacker vs. a 1,080 FP entrenched defender was balanced. It is only available in the campaign if the defending unit started the turn in the area. After Defend is chosen then the 200 FP increments are added to the appropriate larger Force if applicable. They are purely equal armies only if there is no support in an Open Battle.

* what if two players bribe (convert) an autonomous garrison? whom gets it?
Good question. If the bribes are equal then neither. The garrison keeps all of the ducats and chuckles.

I have to say that I am very excited to see the opening moves. There will be treachery, for all to enjoy and admonish. Have fun.

William,

am I correct in assuming we post our moves to you by PM?

This is fun already and no one has even moved a single unit. Thanks for starting this.....

Andre

awesum4 wrote:William,

am I correct in assuming we post our moves to you by PM?

This is fun already and no one has even moved a single unit. Thanks for starting this.....

Andre

Yes. I haven't called for the Order Writing Phase yet, but if everyone is finished with diplomacy then we can proceed.

Since we are just starting I will reject illegal moves and tell you why. You can then resubmit the corrected orders.

w_michael wrote:

awesum4 wrote:William,

am I correct in assuming we post our moves to you by PM?

This is fun already and no one has even moved a single unit. Thanks for starting this.....

Andre

Yes. I haven't called for the Order Writing Phase yet, but if everyone is finished with diplomacy then we can proceed.

Since we are just starting I will reject illegal moves and tell you why. You can then resubmit the corrected orders.

I thought we had until Friday for diplo?

Florentine diplomatic efforts are still in progress.

TheGrayMouser wrote:

w_michael wrote:

awesum4 wrote:William,

am I correct in assuming we post our moves to you by PM?

This is fun already and no one has even moved a single unit. Thanks for starting this.....

Andre

Yes. I haven't called for the Order Writing Phase yet, but if everyone is finished with diplomacy then we can proceed.

Since we are just starting I will reject illegal moves and tell you why. You can then resubmit the corrected orders.

I thought we had until Friday for diplo?

Yes, you do. Some people have already sent orders, but they can change their minds at this point.

The Order Writing phase starts Saturday and ends Sunday. I will execute the orders received on Monday.

Remember that you can have up to four Expense Orders per turn in addition to your Military Orders. You can borrow up to 25 ducats from the Money Lenders for a 1 or 2 year term. Use Expense Order M specifying Money Lenders, the amount and term.

w_michael wrote:Remember that you can have up to four Expense Orders per turn in addition to your Military Orders. You can borrow up to 25 ducats from the Money Lenders for a 1 or 2 year term. Use Expense Order M specifying Money Lenders, the amount and term.

I must of overlooked this one... what happens if you cannot repay the moneylenders? Do they send around the Sicilian mob?

GDod wrote:

His Imperial Majesty and Bard.jpg

w_michael wrote:Remember that you can have up to four Expense Orders per turn in addition to your Military Orders. You can borrow up to 25 ducats from the Money Lenders for a 1 or 2 year term. Use Expense Order M specifying Money Lenders, the amount and term.

I must of overlooked this one... what happens if you cannot repay the moneylenders? Do they send around the Sicilian mob?

You guessed it. Here are the rules:

Players may “borrow” ducats from the Money Lenders and add them to their Treasury. The total number of ducats borrowed by any one player may never exceed 25 ducats at one time (not counting interest). Borrowed ducats may be for a period of one or two years. For instance, a one-year loan taken out in Summer 1501 would have to be repaid with interest in Summer 1502. One-year loans are at 20% interest on the amount borrowed, and two-year loans are at 50% interest (all fractions are rounded up). Full amounts, including all interest, must be repaid even if the repayment is made early. If not paid at this time, the major power unable to meet its debts will immediately suffer the same effects as if the player was assassinated. After this, the debt doesn’t have to be repaid, but the major power may never again borrow ducats from the Money Lenders.

w_michael wrote: You guessed it. Here are the rules:
Players may “borrow” ducats from the Money Lenders and add them to their Treasury. The total number of ducats borrowed by any one player may never exceed 25 ducats at one time (not counting interest). Borrowed ducats may be for a period of one or two years. For instance, a one-year loan taken out in Summer 1501 would have to be repaid with interest in Summer 1502. One-year loans are at 20% interest on the amount borrowed, and two-year loans are at 50% interest (all fractions are rounded up). Full amounts, including all interest, must be repaid even if the repayment is made early. If not paid at this time, the major power unable to meet its debts will immediately suffer the same effects as if the player was assassinated. After this, the debt doesn’t have to be repaid, but the major power may never again borrow ducats from the Money Lenders.

Thanks....clearly they do send in the Sicilian mob!