Slitherine

Here is my proposed Table of Organiztion and Equipment for the start of the 42 East Campaign. I plan to deploy brigades as a whole unit with divisional and corps level assets filling the remaining slots depending on the battle. This will be my first attempt to go this route playing Field Marshal Level. Please advise.

II Corps

Independent Corps Level Units:

I Panzer Regiment: II Panzer Regiment:
SE Panzer IVF/2 SE Panzer IVF/2
SE Panzer IVF/2 SE Panzer IVF/2

Anti-air Regiment:
8.8 cm FlaK 36 w/ SdKfz 7 Battalion
8.8 cm FlaK 36 w/ SdKfz 7 Battalion

Artillery Regiment:
17 cm K 18 w/ SdKfz 7 Battalion
17 cm K 18 w/ SdKfz 7 Battalion

Aux. Infantry Regiment:
Kradschutzen Battalion
Kavallerie Battalion
Bruckenpioniere w/ truck Battalion

I Division:

I Division independent Battalions:
Pioniere w/ truck Battalion
SdKfz 7/1 AA Battalion
SdKfz 232 8 rad Battalion
15 cm sFH w/ SdKfz 251 Battalion
Panzer II Flamm Battalion

I/I Brigade:
Panzer Grenadier w/ SdKfz 251
Panzer IV/F2
StuG IIIB
StuG IIIF

I/II Brigade:
Wehrmacht Infantry w/ truck
Panzer IIIJ/1
10.5 cm leFh 18 w/ truck
StuG IIIF

II Division:

II Division independent Battalions:
Pioniere w/ truck Battalion
SdKfz 7/1 AA Battalion
SdKfz 232 8 rad Battalion
15 cm sFH w/ SdKfz 251 Battalion
Panzer II Flamm Battalion

II/I Brigade:
Panzer Grenadier w/ SdKfz 251
Panzer IV/F2
StuG IIIB
StuG IIIF

II/I Brigade:
Wehrmacht Infantry w/ truck
Panzer IIIJ/1
10.5 cm leFh 18 w/ truck
StuG IIIF

Luftwaffe Units:
Bf-109f
Bf-109f
Bf-109f

Bf-110f
Bf-110f
Bf-110f
Bf-110f

Do-217e
Do-217e

CroCop96 wrote:

ycloon wrote:Here's my contribution from my current playthrough

Finished Stalingrad Ruins (GC'42E) with a corps of 2 panzer divisions, 1 mountain division and support units.
[My game play parameters: difficulty: general, dice chess, scripted heroes disbanded after the scenario, soft cap turned off, most captured units disbanded except for selected units (see below)]

I use the 1943 orders of battle for the 1st Panzer Division and the 1st Gebirgsjaeger Division to organize my forces.

Each playable unit is assumed to be a battalion/ abteilung.

Panzer division 1:
Recon: 1 x SdKfz 232
Panzer regiment: 1 SE Pz IVG, 2 x Pz IVG
Panzer grenadier regiment: 1 x SE Grenadier (SdKfz 251/1), 2 x Infantry (either Opel blitz or on foot)
Panzer pioniere abteilung: 1 x Pioniere (SdKfz 251/1)
Panzerjaeger abteilung: 1 x StuG IIIF
Artillery regiment: 1 x 10.5cm leFH, 1 x 17cm K18, 1 x Wufrahmen

(in the second panzer division, there is one additional 10.5cm le FH)

Gebirgsjaeger division:
Recon: 1 x SdKfz 232
Gebirgsjaeger regiment: 1 x SE Gebirgsjaeger, 2 x Gebirgsjaeger (all on foot)
Pioniere abteilung: 1 x Pioniere (SdKfz 251/1)
Artillery regiment: 2 x 10.5cm leFH, 1 x 17cm K18
Panzerjaeger abteilung: 1 x StuG IIIF

Corps level support units:
1 x KV-1B
3 x StuG IIIF or IIIF/8
1 x 7.5cm PaK 40
1 x StuG IIIB
1 x SU-122(r) (used as self-propelled artillery mostly)

Luftwaffe support units:
Self-propelled anti-air battery: 4 x SdKfz 7/1
Fighter wing: 4 x BF 109F
Tactical bomber wing: 1 x BF 110, 2 x Ju 87D
Level bomber wing: 1 x He 111H, 1 x Ju 88A

Because each division is fairly large, I do not typically deploy every unit in each scenario due to tactical requirements and experience farming. A division is sometimes divided into smaller battle groups tasked with different objectives. The mountain division is often broken up and its elements used to reinforced the panzer divisions. I find that in the early DLCs, the gebirgsjaeger's special move is very valuable in scenarios with mountainous terrain.

I like your core very much, it's a bit different from mine, but seems sweet.
How much prestige do you have?
The Gebirgsjaeger division is especially appealing to me, never tried anything similar.
However, in the end, we are somewhat on the same terms, as your divisions are large, combined-arms, and self sufficient; and mine are smaller but they always have attached corps troops and are in the end equal to yours, only the attached troops are not formally part of them for flexibility in various missions.
Too bad you disband the captured KV1's, but you'll make up for it now, there are KV85's to be captured, you might as well use them
As to prestige, I also like using solely German tanks, but for realism and prestige saving, I generally don't disband the Beute-Panzers - as you can see, they comprise most of my tank forces. I converted all of my tanks to PzIVF2's in my previous playthrough, but that was a huge prestige waste, and I upgraded half of them to Tigers/Panthers 6 missions later anyway. I have only 3 PzIV battalions, and in the future, I plan to have maximally 4-5. All the other tanks will be directly upgraded to Tigers or Panthers. Saves a lot of money in the long run.

Your disbanding of gifted heroes is painful to me, but very realistic, they are somewhat OP. I salute you on that.

**************************

Hi CroCop96, at the start of Kotelnikovo, my prestige stood at 83,412. I just finished my blind playthrough of Kotelnikovo and after loading my corps into GC'43E, I found that I have 82,178. Yes, Kotelnikovo was rough and I lost one of my recon battalions due to overly aggressive handling. I'll replay with a revised deployment and strategy. So basically, I end GC'42E with around 80K in prestige.

You wrote,"However, in the end, we are somewhat on the same terms, as your divisions are large, combined-arms, and self sufficient; and mine are smaller but they always have attached corps troops and are in the end equal to yours, only the attached troops are not formally part of them for flexibility in various missions. " -

-- Absolutely agree. I think the nominal size of a 'division' is pretty much a matter of personal taste/preference. There is no right or wrong way of organizing one's corps. What matters ultimately for success is the sound deployment of combined arms groups - what the Germans called 'kampfgruppe' and what the Americans called 'regimental combat teams'. Since we are playing PzC, I just found the historical order of battle of Wehrmacht divisions to be a good reference and planning guide.

I do find the tank upgrade decision during 1942 to be tricky. Holding on to the Pz IIIs could be prestige efficient from 1941 to 1942 (never tried that in all my playthroughs), but for me the Pz III's edge as the mainstay German hard attack tank (excluding captured T-34s and KVs of course) diminishes in 1942 both because of the advent of the PzIVF2/IVG, the StuG IIIF/IIIF8, and the Marder series. In 1943, apart from one or two upgrades to Tiger I, I plan to keep the remaining Panzer battalions as Pz IVH until the Panther A is available. Even then, I might keep 1-2 battalions as Pz IVH. I'm still thinking about the KV-85's. The trade-off is between having a powerful unit that can be used immediately versus investing the experience in a German unit that may not be as good but is on an upgrade path that leads to a better unit. The other consideration is that the AI seems to favor attacking captured units, which makes their deployment more expensive in terms of replacement cost.

The gifted heroes are really fun to play with! But I do think that they are OP and in fact, one reason for restarting the Grand campaign is to see if I can make it without these guys. (Of course, I do have the benefit of playing through GC39-41 and a large chuck of GC42 on two previous playthroughs.) The heroes I miss most are Oleh Dir and GC41 Rudel. Pein is also nice but he arrived too late to be really useful in GC42 (i.e., I would prefer a 4-star Pein during the Stalingrad battles). While going without Dir and Rudel is a bit painful, I cannot say the same for some of the Luftwaffe pilots like Kittel and Nowotny with defense penalties.

Hi buffalohump: Your proposed core looks good. Maybe I missed something, but you should have a max of 5 SE units in GC42East. You might want to think about what the fifth SE unit (tank vs infantry) should be. I assume you plan to use the scripted infantry hero (Pein) to make up the rest of your infantry core?

ycloon wrote:I do find the tank upgrade decision during 1942 to be tricky.

I agree. My Panzer 3 was struggling most of the last half of 42 East, while the 4s were coping (just) at 3* or 4*. I was tempted to upgrade it to a 4G or retire it until Tigers become available at the start of 43, but due to a shortage of reserve tanks decided to disband the unwanted Shermans and green T34/41s to pay for the (frequent) repairs. It's probably slightly better as a 3N because there are a lot of conscripts and AA guns to get rid of and it reduces the temptation to send it against real grown-up tanks.

captainjack wrote:

ycloon wrote:I do find the tank upgrade decision during 1942 to be tricky.

I agree. My Panzer 3 was struggling most of the last half of 42 East, while the 4s were coping (just) at 3* or 4*. I was tempted to upgrade it to a 4G or retire it until Tigers become available at the start of 43, but due to a shortage of reserve tanks decided to disband the unwanted Shermans and green T34/41s to pay for the (frequent) repairs. It's probably slightly better as a 3N because there are a lot of conscripts and AA guns to get rid of and it reduces the temptation to send it against real grown-up tanks.

@captainjack: The solution in I used in my current playthrough is to use the anti-tank (StuGIIIF or F8 in my case) and Stuka units as the main tank /hard target killing force. After the switch to v1.2, anti-tank units (with the right equipment) are often more potent tank-killers than tank, albeit with an initiative penalty (there might be some other penalties, can't recall right now). My tanks become mobile general purpose killing machines and for that purpose, IVF2 or IVGs are quite well suited with reasonably high SA and HA values. If memory serves, the late model Pz IIIs (apart from Pz IIIN) do not have as high an SA value as IVs. In the early war years, the Soviet tank that is worth keeping IMHO is the KV-1B. The T-34/41 is nice in 41, but becomes obsolete in 42 and has to be either disbanded or upgraded at a hefty price to a German vehicle. The KV-1B remains viable from 41 through 42.

Just started 43 and I'm already thinking I will need to change to a panzer division with 2 tanks, 2 Inf (Pio or Grenadiers) and 2 guns because the 2+1+1 formation isn't versatile enough to act independently any more.

Unsure yet if the newly started Stugs will become Corps units or replace tanks in the Panzer Divisions. The 1st Motorised Infantry has done well from the conversion to 43 Inf but temporarily is struggling for lack of experienced artillery. This is because if the first artillery hero is a spotting one, the unit either gets disbanded or at best is retired to the reserve. The 1st Motorised has just received it's 3rd artillery spotting hero which is a blow as that's two 3 or 4* units retired within about three scenarios.

captainjack wrote:Just started 43 and I'm already thinking I will need to change to a panzer division with 2 tanks, 2 Inf (Pio or Grenadiers) and 2 guns because the 2+1+1 formation isn't versatile enough to act independently any more.

Yes, this is what I've settled on in my second playthrough of the GC. Three divisions (inc. 1 SE) of 2 tanks, 2 infantry, 2 guns seems a good heart of a GC core. Given the scale of the units is ambiguous, it's not too ahistorical. If they are regiments, it's one tank too many for most of the war, but given the tank heavy nature of the scenarios, that's almost necessary. Perhaps the tanks could be viewed as battalions, rather than regiments.

By 1942, I add an StuG per division to help screen against the Russian armour: infantry becomes very squishy. I try to keep the pairs of units in the divisions in
reasonably historical proportions e.g.: late war, 1 PzIVs and 1 Panther; 1 grenadier in a half track and a regular in a truck; 1 mobile artillery and 1 foot. But trying to avoid all cats is painful - a PzIV in 1944 or 1945 east is close to a liability.

Pioneers, recon, AA, paras, independent tank battalions (Tigers) etc. I view as being gathered and allocated at the corps level (otherwise your divisions become too full of support units). I also field a decent sized air force. That structure allows me to flexibly allocate forces to battlegroups as required while still letting each of the three divisions fight as a integrated force. Three battlegroups, centred around three divisions, seems a good number in most scenarios - often you can divide your lines of attack into three (north, centre and south etc).